Mr Froman

Recently got the steering column swapped. They put in a a new lock cylinder in the column with a new key (w/VATS) Three times now I've started my car only to have it immediately stall out. Happened twice this morning and the third time it finally did start and stay running.
Here's the thing that gets me...I got it started to leave campus and I'm at a red light and the light goes green. I give it gas and the car shuts off, right after the SES light popped on. Could not get any codes when I got home.


Forgot to mention that when it does start up, it sounds like it wants to stall but then picks up to where it should be. Noticed my tach flickered up about a grand twice since yesterday

stealthroc89

Could be anything without codes. Did it do this before the ignition switch swap? Sounds like the AIC needs to be reset, along with the TPS. Is the security light on during these times?

Mr Froman

Never really had the problem before the ignition switch swap. Did for about a week until I started using my spare but never saw the problem after that until the swap. I did not know it was possible to reset the TPS. And the security light never comes on when this happens. Once I did get a VATS code when using a scanner after it happened but now I can't get any codes but that is probably my scanner going bad because it never picks up codes even when the SES light is on.

stealthroc89

It could be a faulty ecm, try the paper clip trick and see if you can pull codes that way, if you think the scanner isn't working properly. If your able to pull codes this way we can then work off that.

Mr Froman

Used the paper clip, got only a code 12. Put new plenum gaskets on after cleaning as much carbon as I could out of the plenum. Put a new throttle body gasket on (didn't replace after putting new 180* thermo in on Tuesday) and made sure all lines are good and tight. Was sitting at a red light and stalled out on my way to work. Couldn't get it to stall in my driveway. Got it in the garage in couldn't get it to start after paper clip trick but no VATS code either. I do believe the guy before put a hypertech chip in, don't know if this would conflict with the new thermo at all.

stealthroc89

Hypertech chips require a 180* thermostat depending on the model of the chip. Hows the idle? Does it stumble or just die? Feel low on power? How long does it take for the problem to arise? 1st check for spark, maybe its just the ignition control module. If you have any spark then, check fuel pressure while your driving the car, that puts a load on the pump and may cause it to fail. A failing pump may trigger a code 44, lean exhaust, but since the computer not storing codes who knows. Just check the basics before you assume somethings bad. I feel your pain, my boss needed a floor jack, I have one, so I volunteered to go home and grab it, clocked in and took off. 3 blocks later the car was dead, no ses light and no security light at all. Called my gf, told her to bring the jack and left it. Went back to work ashamed, embarrassed, humiliated, just felt sick. I'm about to call an Exorcist, that thing doesn't have bugs, it has demons that need to be worked out lol!! Also, check the tps setting, Vader did a very detailed write-up on it. You will need a multi-meter, $10 at a parts or department store, good tool to have if your going to work on a 3rd gen.

Mr Froman

I have a decent meter, tinkered around with it to check voltage drop across wires from alternator. Idle is eh...up and down. I was able to get the car started and got these with the scanner:

Car in park

Prom ID: 3281
Coolant temp: 180*
Throttle Sensor: .70V
Angle: 0%
RPM: 692-735
Speed: 0
O2 sensor: 572mV
O2 cross counts: 4-254 and then repeat
Block learn: 128
Block learn cell: 4
Integrator: 128
Idle air mtr. position: 43 steps
Desired idle: 700 RPM
EGR duty cycle: 0.0%
CCP duty cycle: 0.0%
Battery voltage: 14.2V
Fuel Pump: 13.8V
Learned idle: 40 steps
Oil: -38.6*
Spark Advance: 12-20*
Inj pulse: 2.1ms
MAP: 1.74V
Manifold temp: 91.4*
TCC Status: Not locked
02 Sensor: Not ready
Fuel cut off: Disabled
CCP Purge: off
Air Divert: Solenoid on
Air Switch: Solenoid on
Learn Control: Disabled
Rich Lean Flag: Rich
Loop: Open

Car in D, brake pedal depressed:
Everything was pretty much the same except for the idle which dropped to 580-620 while the desired idle read 600 RPM .
Rich Lean Flag: Lean/Rich (kept switching)
Loop Status: Open

And I can totally relate to the work harassment due to the car...my boss rips on me pretty hard for it. The KITT jokes are the funniest.

Found an excellent article (thank you) on adjusting the TPS and IAC. Will finish it tomorrow but for today I am worn out on the idea of messing with it. I am left with the question of why I should have to do anything to those though considering all I did was unbolt the throttle body and disconnect the battery a few times (had to replace wire bolts; stripped.)

stealthroc89

IAC and TPS are basic checs you can do for free and judging by the .700v tps reading, it needs to be adjusted to, IIRC, .540v. Just something you might want to do after you have checked for adequate fuel and spark, since they play a role in how an engine behaves. A bad/ incorrect tps signal can stall or even prevent your engine from running. Check for injector pulse and resistance. All these checks can help narrow down the culprits since there are no codes to go off of. I'm not there with you so I can only go off the info I'm given.

Mr Froman

So after resetting the IAC and TPS, I decided to give it another try today. Started the car alright. Let it sit to warm up. I parked the truck in the garage and as soon as I stepped out of my garage, my car shut off. SES light on, only code is VATS failure but that had to be on there from Sunday when I tried plugging in the wrong resistor to bypass. Can't pull any other codes. It only stalls at idle though.


The tach jumps after starting the car and sometimes while driving. I believe this narrows it down to a vacuum leak, but I am not sure how to find it.

stealthroc89

The tach jumps by itself or because thats what the engine is doing? VATS is something I don't know about, I leave it alone and it leaves me alone. Replacing one is expensive as hell though, the box is like $300. I wouldn't even know where to start to diagnose a possible vats failure. Might wanna try the electronics board, the guys there should be able to take care of you.

Mr Froman

I'm sure this isn't VATS here after seeing the tach jump. I will get this finished tomorrow now that my semester is done and I have a day off. I'm thinking the vacuum ball is the culprit.

el raptor

check out gtasourcepage forums. have a 89 GTA does the same thing once in a while. has something to do with the MAF relay, code 36. it's under GTA TECH

Mr Froman

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, my car does not have MAF, it has MAP.

stealthroc89

So the problem just started? The only thing changed was the ignition switch. Have checked for spark when this problem pops up? If you have an old spark plug lying around its a breeze, just pop off a plug wire, plug the spare in, lean it against some metal to ensure a good ground and spin it over. If it pops good, you can cross that off the list, during a no start condition.

Mr Froman

The problem started after changing thermostat and I have TPI, a few vacuum lines were removed while removing the TB but replaced in the process and I DID replace the TB gasket.

unprdictable1

iTrader: (2)

Try a re-learn procedure, I'm not 100% sure on the time for your car, but turn the key to the on position for 10 min. Then try and re-start the car. If that doesn't help, some GM's take 30 min for the re-learn (may need to hook up a battery charger). I just ran into this problem recently at my shop. All it needed was a re-learn.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

How did you clean the plenum? Did you also clean the throttle body out?

I hope you removed the IAC motor from the throttle body before spraying it down with intake cleaner. There is an IAC passage that runs down to the IAC motor underneath the throttle body.

I dont remember the TPS sensor being adjustable in that year, does your TPS pivot on the two mounting scews?

Mr Froman

I used electrical parts cleaner to clean the IAC and everything was disconnected from the plenum when I cleaned it except for one thing that looked like a temp sensor. I just sprayed the electrical parts cleaner in there while I had it on a bench and the carbon broke loose with a brush. Then let it dry for a while. I know it sounds pretty dumb to use that to clean it out but I had a full can laying around and didn't know what else to use at the time.

And yes I cleaned the throttle body. I couldn't adjust the IAC only reset it following the procedure from this article: www.thirdgen.org/tpimod2

Mr Froman

I forgot about this. But I will try it.



Between Friday and now I have done the following:
New IAC valve
Completely cleaned out throttle body
Checked vacuum, steady
Vacuum ball in fender seemed alright, line was hooked up
Put in old thermostat that was in it before I had these problems.

The car idles fine while it is warming up. Once it gets to 180 it seems like it shuts itself off unless you hold the throttle open some. Still a little curious why the tach jumps dramatically at random.

It almost feels like it starts to hesitate when it goes into closed loop. The o2 sensor is fairly new though. Maybe a year. I do have an exhaust leak from my passenger side (I think from the header) but I don't know if that means anything here.



Okay, here's another thing it idles fine until it reaches 180* and then shuts itself off. I'm taking out the hypertech PROM and putting in the one ACDelco one I have (16163139) Seems really strange that immediately after changing the thermostat I've had these problems, and it's a 180* thermostat with a chip which is programmed for 180* and at EXACTLY 180.0* it stalls out.

Mr Froman

Sorry for the triple post but I wanted to give an update based on yesterdays work.

Put in a newer o2 sensor, nothing. Gets up to operating temp and stalls. Put in a never before used PROM, turned out to be identical to the one that was already in there. (last time I listen to the shop who told me to order a factory one to replace the hypertech) No luck, still stalls and won't start until it cools off some. Coolant level is fine, coolant mixture is fine last time I checked (did so after the thermostat change.)

We're looking at the distributor now. After it won't start we find that we can get a spark from the ign. coil to the block but not to the distributor cap. Cap, rotor and ignition coil all new. I will need this car back VERY soon so any help would be appreciated.

stealthroc89

Maybe it's too early in the morning, but what block, the engine block? Don't throw parts at it, all you will do is waste your time and money. Stalling due to operating temps points twards the ignition control module and the coil, the jumping tach indicates that too. Autozone can test the module, but since they do it in a cool enviroment it'll probably pass.

Mr Froman

Hey guys, thanks for all your input. It was my distributor. It was shot. Once it would heat up, it would lose spark. Once it cooled off, it had spark again. So after replacing it the car was up and running again.

stealthroc89

Sweet! Next time check for spark 1st, then fuel and so on. Saves a lot of headaches and money. Have fun!