Bota 65

I am rebuilding a 350 for my Formula. Nothing outrageous But I was considering Using the ZZ4 heads and ZZ4 cam along with an Eagle crank and pistons. Anyone have any thoughts as to wheteher this is good or bad or anything in between. Just looking for a solid setup with decent HP. I'm not gonna be Running it hard or anything Just taking it to my local cruises. Looking to stay under $3,000 and keep my TPI setup. Let me know what you guys think or if you have some better setups. I would like to go to aluminum heads but other than that i'm not set on anything yet.

Thanks

RedneckNo4

http://www.blueprintengines.com/inde...355-bp35512ct1

is that what you were thinking of?
the zz4 heads don't have a lot of flow you can get aluminum heads with much better flow for about the same price

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

I personally would go with a set of AFR heads and a nice roller cam from TPIS. I'd also switch over to either the TPIS Miniram or the Holley Stealth Ram, but I know you want to keep your TPI set-up.

I recently put a new 350 in my GTA with aluminum heads, a Crane Compucam, Big Mouth manifold and the enlarged Edelbrock TPI runners. It runs good, but I wished that I had gone with the AFR heads, TPIS cam and one of those manifolds for the money. Just my two cents

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Got a example?

RedneckNo4

I was going to wait on him to give us more info on what he wants but...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-60999/
those always worked really well for the guys on my S10 forum

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-30410002/

there are others that would be about the same

he didn't say so i was assuming he'd be buying new heads he also didn't say any exact number for his goals thats why i posted the blueprint engine to see what abouts he wants

no fighting necessary

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well you'll hve a zz4 more or less, my zz4 dyno'd 300hp/350tq at the wheels through a t56 with a stealth ram. you'll be within 35hp/25tq with a stock tpi i imagine. Its enough power to be fun

Bota 65

I was Looking for 350 - 400 hp nothing over the top and staying within my budget. I will have to buy the aluminum heads new since I do not have any atm. I only have roughly 3 grand to spend so i am just fishing for the best bang for my buck.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

These are better value ; just upgrade the valve springs to suit your cam
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-30400001/

The Performer RPM heads don't rate very high on most forums ; ordinary flow numbers when compared to cheaper TFS heads

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Profiler makes a great set, all American made, cast, etc... for the same money.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Stock Corvette 113 heads will support that with very minor porting.

Vortec heads will do that no problem.

You don't need anything more than those options, and they are cheap.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

afr does make a nice cylinder head .. i would go with afr or tfs ..

The Project

iTrader: (6)

ZZ4 is a good mild cam. You might consider a little bigger Comp cam and AFR heads.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

i was thinking the same thing .. something like the xfi 268 comp. cam would be nice ..

RedneckNo4

personally i do like the zz4 heads though, I got them with a 350 a friend of mine's dad had in a monte carlo, I put it in my S10, but I have a holley 650 DP, Rpm air gap and over 11:1 compression, I'll dyno it eventually its for random off road fun though i wouldn't recommend that for a car you want to drive

Bota 65

Forgive my ignorance but i was under the impression that Vortec Heads would not fit with my factory TPI intake. Is that an incorrect assumption?

Bota 65

I like the AFR Heads but That's looking like half my budget. If I'm looking at the $1200 to $1500 price tag correctly.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

i would save a little more and do it right and get the afr heads ..it will be worth the wait .. i also believe you need another intake for the vortecs ..

godreject

iTrader: (1)

vortec heads do require a vortec tpi intake and for the price new it's not worth it. unless you can get one cheap and even then it will need some port work. You might consider picking up an after market tpi base and runners, and doing some clean up port work, that will yield you the best results. be patients and find things used,

Bota 65

Thats my plan, along with picking the vast knowledge base on here I should be able to get a nice driver setup. i am hoping anyway.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

They are not necessary for your build goals, you would be wasting money. Be wary of anyone pushing a product, especially if their history is that they have the same solution to every problem. Don't spend money you don't need to spend. Some people just need to feel good about themselves by having you waste money. If you're looking for knowledge, learn to recognize validation from good information.

That being said....

You should be able to modify your TPI base for Vortecs. It's not that big a deal. It's been done for everything, even the cross fires.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

lolololol, you just explained yourself ... look at post 9 ...everytime a good cylinder head is mentioned you jump in and try and push those profiler heads ...those are your solution to everything ..lololololololol

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Listen Ray. You didn't point me out, I pointed you out. I do that because I know the drill. Out of the box...blah blah blah. I thwart your points before you make them. Fact of the matter is Profiler is $500 and just as good, if not better. But that's besides the point, bottom line I do that to point out what hacks you guys are. But you don't care they are $500 cheaper. You push AFR because you clearly are ignorant and don't know anything that doesn't come off a forum. I've seen your other posts, what a waste of time.

Point of the matter is you're telling this guy to spend money he doesn't have to spend. He doesn't need to drop $1500 on a set of average heads that are not required for his application. And it's not the first time I've seen that. HOW DARE YOU tell this guy to **** away money to make yourself feel better.

What's wrong with you? Why would you tell this guy to throw away money like that? He doesn't have the budget and it doesn't fit his goal! Do you have a problem? Why in the world would you tell this guy he needs heads based on his goals? He doesn't.

What is it from some people that want to make sure everyone puts on AFR heads if they need it or not.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

bla bla bla... your a typical forum punk thats gets his kicks off of trying to be the forum god ..lol ive seen your type come and go .. you dont have crap and you dont know crap.. PERIOD !! on the other hand i have a 3000 hp twin turbo bbc camaro that you wouldnt even know how to start ..

i cant believe im arguing with this loser .........go build yourself something and get back with us ..lol have a nice day mr. know it all ...

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

if your budget is 3000 there is def no need for afr heads. I just built a small block and im in 4500 plus range. And i was trying to save money at first didnt really work casue first thing I bought were afr heads haha not saying that it was a bad buy but still . Anyways What is your time line for this

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Right. and his HP goals are 350-400 EASILY achieved with inexpensive stock/vortex heads.

This knee jerk reaction to make people buy stuff they don't need so they can feel important is stupid.

Hey, OP, sorry about the diversion. You can do everything you want in your budget and have a few bucks left over. Money is tight for everyone these days, don't get wrapped up in a circle jerk of unnecessary parts. Best of luck, and if I can help you source parts on a budget, as I have for others, let me know. Shoot me a PM.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

You're my hero Ray...

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

I have nothing against afr i have a set but like i said you pay for it the first combo I looked at were vortec heads and a vortec base and a zz4/lt-4 cam and I would have went that route if they were still selling the exhaust crossover line, but it got discontinued. And here i am with a bunch of other parts , anyways if you dont have smog **** where you live then I would for sure go with the vortec route. that is one of the cheaper options if you can find a cheap base. There is a couple guys on here that could port your base for a good price as well. If you have time try and find most of this stuff used and save yourself some money.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

please read what you write ... if he doesnt need afr or tfs then he sure dont need a set of profilers either .. man do you change your tune fast .. i guess what ever makes you look good ...

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I agree. He doesn't need profilers, AFR or TFS either. So I have to wonder what brain surgeon like you recommended buying heads.

What I was saying is why **** away $1500 when you can save $500 and get better results is all.

We agree however, he does not need fancy heads.

big_G

Yikes....danger zone!...To the OP....your budget dictates that you not spend over $1K for heads. Your $3K will be gone before you know it. As John said, you can reach your goals without breaking the bank on heads.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

the 2 brain surgeons would be you and vetteoz .. he recommended tfs then you recommended profiler .. i wasnt even in the thread yet .. i just said afr cause i think its funny that vetteoz recommended tfs then you came right back with profiler ..

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Vetteoz is one of the brightest guys here. Not sure what he did to be a victim of your attacks.

I recommended he spends as little on heads as possible to meet his goals, which is a few hundred bucks. 113s or Vortec are more than inadequate. But apparently that wasn't cool enough.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

please dont insult me with that garbage im attacking anyone ... you asked who was the brain surgeon that recommeded buying heads in this thread and if you go and reread the post , its not that hard , you and vetteoz are the ones who recommeded aftermarket heads first ...

so the way i see it you insulted him not me ... nice try though ...

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

oh and by the way , i do agree with vetteoz that those tfs heads are a good head for the money ...

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Actually, it was "DPRESED" in post #3 who bought up after market heads, and you chimed right in quoting and agreeing with him in post #11. Then in #12, the project chimed in about AFR, and you then validated the position in #13.

Based on his goals and budget, all 3 of you are wrong. I don't understand this compelling issue to circle jerk like this and completely ignoring the OPs goals, budgets, and desire.

Then you come in and re-enforce your sickness to AFR heads. You clearly would not give up until Bota 65 spent money on AFR heads. What's with that?

What's wrong with you Ray? Seriously? Why the compelling issue to push a product? He knows what his needs are, he outlined them, he's happy with it, why are you being like a drug pusher on this? He doesn't need them, but that won't stop you will it?

Just FYI, 113 and vortec heads (GM ANYWAY) are not after market, see, you learned something.

Bottom line is he has ZZ4 heads which given his goals will be just fine. No matter how much that bothers you.

OP, again, good luck, sounds like you have together what you need/want. Don't listen to people who have more interest in expanding a circle jerk than helping you get things right.

FYI Ray, real builders don't come to a forum and ask what cam they need they know.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

OMG guys! Can't we all just get along. This bickering is counterproductive! I am truly sorry Bota that I even brought up AFR heads. I agree, they are not necessary even though they are great heads. I was mearly stating what I would do, but that's just me. I wasn't trying to "push a product" on you by any means. And I surely don't get off on "having you waste money". It's your money, spend it how you see fit. So to Mr. InjectorsPlus... how about gearing it down there big shifter Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mr. Bota has enough information to do what he needs to do.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

wow i wish i could get that minute back that i spent reading this garbage you wrote ... are you really that stupid that you dont see your post were you recommeded profiler heads to this guy ..im mean really please answer that question ???? man am i talking to a 3 year old ...

fyi im not a engine builder and trust me when i say this your not either..and i know you dont understand this but this is a forum to ask questions and im bored so im trying to learn what makes these slow cars go .. i cant imagine what your IQ is , my 9 year old makes more sense than you...

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

your not allowed to give your opinion unless you run it past the almighty injector peddler ..aka mr. know it all..

88blackgta

Please explain how to do this. If it's not a big deal, there are many here who would like to know how rather than buying a new intake.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I said SHOULD because I never tried it with a TPI or know anyone who has. However, as I pointed out, there are plenty of other manifolds that have been adapted to Vortec heads. The difference is that the Vortec is an 8 bolt pattern and the holes are drilled at 72 degrees vs 90 degrees on a standard SBC head, so if the manifold has enough material to drill the holes bigger, and use spacers on the manifold bolts, problem solved. I don't know if TPI has enough room to do that with the runners, hence SHOULD. AFR recommended doing it that way before they had a Vortec head, as did other manufacturers.

Best to have a machine shop do it, if you feel uncertain.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

That's Mr. Know It All (note the caps) SIR.

Thank you for noticing.

Doom86

Ray are you reading the same thread as me? Profilers are being compared to the heads in the link and no one has said he needs or should buy them. Please quote and/or link where you are reading this so we can all see it as you are because I'm confused.

The guy does not need heads. So why are we so adamant that he buy the most overpriced and over-hyped one's in existence? He needs head work at least, or budget heads at most. IMO he is a valve job and cam away from his goal.

But if your goal really is to make much more power and not built to meet a illusionary HP goal then I would buy aftermarket. $3000 will go very quickly too so spend wisely.

big_G

I did it myself waaaaay back in '89.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

So let me get this straight. If you had $3000 to spend and wanted 350-400 HP the first thing you'd do is drop $1500 on AFR heads? Are you serious?

It's not you dprest. It's a culture that exists where as soon as someone wants to do anything to an engine, people feel the need to pop up and say "BUY AFR HEADS" whether it fits their desires or criteria or not. Whether the rest of the build supports it or not...just a sickness I guess.

If it ended with you it's one thing, when the others chimed in, in support, it became a typical internet circle jerk.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Did you do it on a TPI?

88blackgta

That would be a good trick considering the Vortec heads being referred to didn't exist until 1996. Do you happen to have a Delorean with a Flux capacitor?

big_G

Whatever...might have been '99...IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. I remember all the die-grinding and having to buy the angle adapters for the intake bolts.

Bota 65

I appreciate all the info guys and I can see many of the points of views on here. My Time line will probably be to have it built by the fall and install over next winter. I based my $3000 budget and my thoughts on building a dependable driver with a little bit of power at the peddle that will look good on the weekend cruise nights with the hood open. It will not be running light to light and will rarely see the north side of the century mark on the speedo. Heck i'll probably have $4G in it by the time its done. I just don't want to spend money on something that will never be used in the manner it was designed for.

big_G

Good luck with the build.

Bota 65

These are the heads I was thinking of, I should probably stay under a grand i'm thinkin.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12556463/