FireInMe17

So its about time to ditch the 3.1L in favor of whats meant to be in our cars, a nice big Chevy Small Block. I don't want V6 power, and I actually want the car to feel like its fast, and won't have trouble getting around like a V6 car does.

So, I'm going to start stockpiling parts to do the swap, so far, I think im off to a good start. Heres what I got in my last trip:

305 TPI from an 87 IROC with most sensors
Rebuilt 700-R4 with 5K miles on it
TPI runners, plenum, intake
Chrome valve covers with Chevy Logo
Headers with 3in collector
Torque converter
T.V. Cable
Throttle cable
Distributor/cap/rotor/wires-MSD
Starter
Alternator
Mounting brackets for accessories
IROC hood with louvers to replace steel hood
Cross drilled front rotors, new brake pads, calipers
IROC springs, front and rear
Distributor cover plate

Got all that for 850 bucks

What I'll be getting in a week or two:

Full 3in exhaust with hollow cat and dual outlet polished tips
IROC-spec rear swap bar and greasable linkages
New front strut tower mounts
MAF sensor brand new out of the box
Fuel filter brand new out of the box

Guy said he would hold all this for me for 350 bucks

My plans for the car:

Well I know that I want to try to get a good moderate street cam, but I'm not sure which one yet, but a good cam will give me some more power with a good tune. Once I do that, I want to get vortec heads and the adapter plate to make them fit with a TPI setup which should be good for another 40-50 horespower easy. After that I plan on getting all new valve train for the engine and some good 1.7 roller rockers or something like that. I want to try to get all of this done so I can drive it by the fall, and then be able to get it painted in the winter, so next year it will be ready to do all summer.

I'll post pics when I can of what I got, so far I think I made out pretty good for what I paid. The 305 only has 120K miles on it, but my V6 was getting close to 95K so no big deal there. And like I said the 700-R4 was rebuilt so it will be good. The guy said he could get it to chirp gears with the 305 stock the way it way, but I want to make it into a monster.

Let me know what you guys think, and I'll be back on to ask for help to figure things out to make it all work right. I still have a lot of little parts to get and its gonna be a bitch.

And if any of you guys know anyone who has a compatible wiring harness and computer for my engine then let me know please! I still need to grab those things.

FireInMe17

FireInMe17

FireInMe17

FireInMe17

58mark

iTrader: (3)

looks like a nice project, and once you get the computer and harness, you should be good to go
If your v6 has trouble getting around, I think you may have had a mechanical problem with it. I've had two cars with v6's and they may not have the kind of power that plants you in the back of the seat, but I can spin my tires anytime I want to, and it's got more than enough power to do anything I need it to do

FireInMe17

I kept my V6 in tip top shape and never cheaped out or missed out on any work that it needed and yeah while it would spin the tires, it just never had the performance or the power that I wanted, and it had problems getting up all th e mountains around here....and I got sick of all the people on this thread telling me that my V6 would never make any power without building a "hybrid" aka junkyard engine or forced induction/ nitrous. So I'll just join the V8 crowdand get what I want. Plus TPI just looks badass and I love it.

I think I'm off to a good start. and yeah it will be a good build once I get all the stuff together and get my suspension in place. I just need to get the parts haha.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I could see it laboring in a mountain environment... I don't have to deal with that here

and yes, the TPI looks amazing... I would suggest you polish the plenum while you have it sitting there and are accumulating a few more parts

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Looks good! What made you decide 305 instead of 350? I plan to skip a SBC and go right to LSX with my V6 car. I have a bunch of nice parts in this V6 the V6 guys would like.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

well then, make sure you give me a heads up when that day comes...

FireInMe17

well i just tracked down the cheapest, lowest mile tpi engine i could fine and i found thsis 305 id rather have a 350, but ill see what i can find. and yeah. these v6ls cant pull **** up a hill...i usually take the car over mountains that are at least 6% grades over a mile or more. and by the time i make it to the top, i have it floored just to keep the car going and usually the cars running hot or close to overheating and it just takes its toll on it after a while.. ive been driving this car around pretty much completely stock and original for two years, and i just think that its time to move on.

i can still get considerable power from this 305 with a cam and the vortec heads, and thats what i want to do with it .

and yeah im going to polish the plenum and runners up to match the valve covers. its gonna be sweet!

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Sweet! I never knew the rear springs had to be changed too. Good thing I just swapped mine with some off a 97 Z28.

For sure, if your interested in a cam, roller rockers, a double roller timing chain, and ported heads.

FireInMe17

Hmm well I don't think that the rear springs have to be changed but im sure it will help with beefier springs on take off to keep things in check in the rear.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

I would agree. I just put the springs in the rear of mine to help fit my wheels.

FireInMe17

So lets talk about cams. What should I get? haha

giszo

I will do almost the same thing this summer. Swap my 3.1L V6 to a 92 5.0L V8 TPI engine.

As I saw you have a 87 engine so that should be a factory roller block. My choice for camshaft is the Comp Cams 08-501-8: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-501-8/

FireInMe17

Can I go with something like this?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K12-246-3/

Thats the whole kit for everything that I would need to do the cam swap minus getting it machined but thats a pretty good deal.

giszo

230/236 duration at 0.050" seems to a bit much for a 305 TPI engine and the 87 block should be a roller one.

FireInMe17

Yeah i forgot about looking for a roller cam...

Tonight I hit a snag...I started to clean some of the intake parts a bit more and I wanted to find a good way to clean the runners so they were bare metal. Its disgustingly dirty in there...theres 23 years of baked on carbon and sut that wont come out, even with air craft remover....

What would you guys use to clean the runners?

FireInMe17

Does anyone know what the stock lift is for the cam for my engine?

giszo

You should have hydraulic roller lifters in a 87 roller block.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

Your swap looks promising. I wish you much luck brother.

FireInMe17

Ok little update.

Found a 350 vortec out of a 99 suburban that just needs head gaskets, and a new head gasket set is coming with the engine.

Picking that up hopefully for under $400 and now I'm going to build a 350 Vortec TPI instead of a 305 TPI if i get the engine.

That should easily put me to over 300HP and somewhere around 400 ft/ilbs, which means that this thing is going to be a beast!!!

ASE doc

Just a note on this build. Ive done several TPI implants in earlier 3rd gens as well as V6 to TPI swaps. What made the job easier was having the donor car right there in the next stall, where I could pull those parts I had forgotten.

The swap is fairly straightforward as all 3rd gens had the same body openings for the ECM harness and the same basic engine and underdash harness. Take careful note of circuit terminations as you swap wires and watch for different wire colors. Especially in connectors C207 & C208. Have a really good wiring diagram on hand in case you get lost.

FireInMe17

Can I effectively use 350 heads on a 305 if I get a bigger cam and bigger injectors? I want to go the vortec route for sure, but that 350 I was talking about....well its a junker with 200k+ miles on it and needs a complete rebuild to run the way I want it to. The 305 is still low mileage and wont need all that.

fireburdluvr85

they offer an adapter plate to mount tpi manifolds to vortec heads? where the hell have i been?

giszo

350 heads would lower your compression. Do you know the volume of those cylinder heads?

FireInMe17

Haha yeah they make a TPI intake that will fit vortec heads and its like $400 bucks and I think its worth it. And yeah I know that it would lower my compression a bit, but can't I get it back with the right valvetrain? And I have no idea what the volume of the chamber is...

EDIT: Its a 96-02 350 Vortec head set from a replacement engine for those trucks, if that helps.

giszo

You can bump compression up by decking the block/heads or using a thinner head gasket.

But without knowing exact numbers and details it is hard to plan anything.

ASE doc

I know this may not come across well amongst 305 fans, but you might want to consider building a 350 at this point. Or, just stick with the 305 as it sits for now. You will find the performance a huge improvement over the V6 and you can enjoy it while you save money to build the 350 later.

You can find a good one piece RMS, roller cam block for about $150. About $750 at a machine shop will have the block and rotating assembly ready to go.

2score

i got a 1991 firebird with blown v-6 engine, i was wondering if could steel my dad's 1990 g-20 van's 350 v-8 engine / transmision in put it in the firebird. If i can doe anybody know what has to be done.

ASE doc

The 90 van motor is very similar to the V8 in the RS Camaro. The swap should be fairly straight forward. You'll need parts from an RS V8(fuel lines, throttle cable,etc).

FireInMe17

Well I want to just get a 350 but all the ones around here for sale are junked and don't run, or do run but need completely rebuilt.

ASE doc

My main point was not to get too involved with swapping heads and such on the 305. Unless you plan to spend some serious money on building this motor, you'd be better off just installing it as it sits rather than modifying it. You can build a 350 later.

FireInMe17

Well swapping heads would be easier than a complete rebuild on a 350 is what I'm saying. And 305 vortecs can make as much power as a 350 TPI.

FireInMe17

Well I got the heads pulled off today, the cylinder walls are perfect and everything checks out good. There were 3 or 4 bent pushrods but that was the worst of it.

But what I thought about today was vats. What can I do to keep my vats when I swap the V8? Its something that I want to keep.


Looking in the valley:

FireInMe17

Ok so the heads that I'm going to be using for this 305 are 350 Vortec 96-02 Truck heads. They have a 170cc intake, and the combustion chamber is 64cc. I know that I'm going to have to get the heads milled down a bit to keep good compression for the smaller bore of the 305 vs the 350, but how much smaller does it need to be? I want to keep the stock 9.3:1 compression so I can use pump gas, and not have any ping.

Also, I know that the Vortec heads are not a direct bolt on to a Gen I Small Block. I know that if I want to use TPI, I need to get the TPI intake manifold, and I am. The only other thing I can think of is the valves, but what else is there?

I'm looking up the specs to my cam, but they are eluding mer right now, but I'll be back with them later....

FireInMe17

bump

FireInMe17

buuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmppppppppp

FireInMe17

Its been a while, but I've been busy getting parts and figuring out exactly what I want to do and I'm pretty close.


I decided to go the Vortec route with 906 heads, it adds another $400 to the engine build for my intake manifold, but I think its worth it.

Heres what I got:

Brand new 906 Vortec heads
Brand new Vortec TPI intake manifold
Brand new 435/465 Roller cam
Brand new intake bolts
Brand new head bolts
Brand new pushrods
Brand new rockers
Brand new oil pan and one piece gasket
Brand new high pressure oil pump, high pressure spring and installation hardware
Brand new Felpro 0.015" thick 4.100" diameter steel shim head gaskets
Brand new intake manifold gaskets

Heres what I'm still thinking about:

Getting 1.5" aluminum full roller rockers
Different headers, (long tube headers)
Timing gear so I never have to worry about timing issues


With the larger combustion chambers of the Vortec heads (64cc) versus the stock heads(58cc) I'm going to have my compression lowered a bit to 8.7:1 even with the thinner head gaskets. But the performance that I'm going to get out of the Vortec heads are more than going to make up for the slight loss of compresion I'm more than sure.

I'm going to port and polish my heads and intake, gasket match, all that good stuff to maximize air flow in the engine and get as much out of it as I can. That on top of the larger cam, bigger injectors, vortec heads, and roller rockers should free up as much horsepower I can get with the stock bottom end.

I'm hoping that I can make 300hp and 400 ft/ilbs, and I don't think its really out of the question considering that stock a 305 can put down 200hp+ and 300ft/ilbs+ stock from the factory.

From there its going to be putting the engine all together on the stand and getting the rest of the parts that I need, and then once I take it to get the IROC spec springs installed theres going to be no turning back and I can start ripping out the V6.

I'll get pics up of the stuff when I can, I've got quite the parts collection in my basement!

What do you guys think? Are my goals attainable? And what color should I paint it all? I was thinking red pan/block/and heads with silver headers, then giving the plenum red accents on it, I think that would look sweet on top of the polished runners and throttle body.

giszo

300hp with a 305 and 8.7:1 compression?

What is the spec of your cam? What DCR do you have with it?

FireInMe17

Im pretty sure that its 191 intake and 196 exhaust with 111 degree lobe seperation. Its the heads, valves, springs, and cam out of this crate engine: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12530282/

Its supposedly good for 330hp and 380 tq on a 350.