PONTIMANIAC 90

Which brand name heads besides AFR make emission legal heads that will bolt on and be compatible with Edlebrock TPI manifold and match up w/TES headers? Basically who makes dirrect replacement heads for a TPI set-up?
Thanks in advance
Mike

BenDoe91z28

Well, there are many available. The most popular being TrickFlow, Edelbrock, Canfield, World Products(iron). Many people all have their own opinions. I am going to state what is taken as fact. Trick flow 23* heads are very popular and are probably the cheapest(not nesicarily bad) heads. I have flow numbers here:

TRICK FLOW 23 DEGREE
Intake Exhaust
0.1 50.6 57.9
0.2 135.8 98.3
0.3 191 136.4
0.4 229.7 162.9
0.5 253.1 176.9
0.6 254.3 189.6

Summit sells these heads for around $950, but i found a place on the internet that sells them cheaper. http://www.dallasexportsales.com/

Some people tend to say that edelbrock heads are an old/bad design. They flow about like this... Summit sells them for around $1050, and i havn't found any place cheaper

EDELBROCK PERFORMER
Intake Exhaust
0.1 64 44
0.2 121 95
0.3 174 134
0.4 216 159
0.5 235 177
0.6 236 187

another option is the aluminum L98 heads
These can be bought new for about $900, or used for about $400, plus 200 to rebuild them to factory specs.
they flow this:

L98
Intake Exhaust
0.1 49 52
0.2 98 104
0.3 123 133
0.4 140 150
0.5 155 170
0.6 159 175


World SR are iron and flow this, SR stands of Stock replacement.. meaning they probably aren't the best for performance applications. I think they are about $650 from summit.

WORLD SR
Intake Exhaust
0.1 68 55
0.2 128 100
0.3 179 133
0.4 205 145
0.5 221 153
0.6 225 155


AFR's flow numbers are:

AFR 190
Intake Exhaust
0.1 70 67
0.2 144 121
0.3 208 157
0.4 244 188
0.5 262 202
0.6 261 211


and we know these are expensive... thats all i can advise for now, I might edit or post again later. Anybody please feel free to correct my information

PONTIMANIAC 90

Thaks a lot for the info. I'm kind of partial to AFRs. Since I'm dishin' out for a new ZZ4 shortblock I might as well spend a few more beans for the heads. That link you gave me has AFRs for a relativly decent price as far as my research so far.
Thanks again
Mike

BenDoe91z28

Here is another link to relitivly cheap AFR's, in fact they are cheaper than the other link. Keep in mind thought that you might have to have them milled $200, and maybe have holes drilled for your the fan switches into the side of the head $55.

http://www.users.qwest.net/~zjon/z-r...ads/AFR190.htm

This is a cheaper site for trick flow, I'm not sure how reliable it is, it looks kinda half-a**

http://www.goautocenter.com/cylinder_heads.htm

PONTIMANIAC 90

What do you mean by "milled"? Do they not come ready to instal?
Thanks
Mike

BenDoe91z28

AFR heads come with their infamous 74CC or 68CC combustion chamber. In order to maintain the correct compression, you need to make that smaller. They "mill" (or shave) a few thousands off of the bottom of the heads to make that chamber smaller. Compression ratio depends on the pistons you have and the heads. You should research your zz4 a little bit more to find out what compression ratio you get with what CC chamber. If I have time i'll do it and get back to you.

bobs89irocz

Edelbrock also makes them Performers, centerbolt, 60cc, 2.02 1.60 valves and are emissions legal. They are stock replacements, i have a set on the stroker car in my sig, they are good for a small application but not mine. They are also Aluminums cost like $1100 complete new. I am going to go get some afr 220cc heads though, i would not really recomend these heads to anyone, they arent that great.

PONTIMANIAC 90

I'd appreciate that.
I intend on getting the 68cc version. This is what I got from S-D:

Part # 12561723

Block: Cast Iron, 4- Bolt
Rear Seal: 1 - Piece
Crankshaft: Forged Steel
Stroke: 3.480"
Pistons: Hypereutectic 4VR Flat Top
Compression Ratio: 9.6:1 w/ 64cc heads
Compression Ratio: 8.8:1 w/ 76cc heads

I imagine the final compression ratio would depend on the gasket thickness/hieght. i would be happy w/9.5:1 since I might get a blower in the future but I see what you mean by "milling"now.
Mike

BenDoe91z28

Well it seems all i have is time down here at Oregon State so this is what i found...


ZZ4 shortblock
Block: Cast Iron, 4- Bolt
Rear Seal: 1 - Piece
Crankshaft: Forged Steel
Stroke: 3.480"
Pistons: Hypereutectic 4VR Flat Top
Compression Ratio: 9.6:1 w/ 64cc heads
Compression Ratio: 8.8:1 w/ 76cc heads


that means if you order AFR heads with 74 CC combustion chambers, you would have about 8.9:1 compression. If you order them with 68cc you'll have in the neighborhood of 9.3:1. Of course, then there is the thermal inefficentcy of Aluminum wich would drop both those numbers down half a point. So if you get ARF heads, you would have to get them milled in order to get the performace they were designed for. So that brings the price of our AFR heads up to around $1500....

Perosnally, On my 350 I'm building, i'm going to be using Trick flow 23* heads. I think they'll be a good choice.

PONTIMANIAC 90

Looks like you got the same info as me. Thanks anyway. I'm gonna have to look into those Trickflows. You say they are also emmission legal w/a carb# and all?
Mike

BenDoe91z28

Everything you need to know about the Trick flow heads. These might need to be milled also, they come with either 72cc or 64 cc chambers. Can I ask why your going with a zz4 short block?

http://www.trickflow.com/media/pr/pdf/23degree_sbc.pdf

IrocNround

Im in the process of building a 350 myself and I will be keeping the TPI setup. My question is, arent our blocks 2bolt mains? Please someone school me on this.

PONTIMANIAC 90

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BenDoe91z28
[B]Everything you need to know about the Trick flow heads. These might need to be milled also, they come with either 72cc or 64 cc chambers. Can I ask why your going with a zz4 short block?

Do you mean why a "shortblock" and not the complete ZZ4 or why a ZZ4 altogather?
I don't like the complete ZZ4 packages because I don't like their head and cam combo simply because they only give you that one choice. I don't need the manifold since I wanna keep my TPI set-up and keep it emission legal. I don't think my TES headers will mate w/those heads. I figured if I gotta replace the 305 w/a 350 I might as well choose my own parts. I'm going to use the LT4 hot cam.
As far as "why a ZZ4"and not another shortblock. I like the price and the fact that the crank and rods are forged. The new L98 and L31 do't have forged parts and with them milling will definitelly be required to get decent compression. I plan to use a blower in the future and those things can't hurt.
I was also looking at the Edlebrock heads. They got a 60cc version. What kind of compression would that make about 10:1?

PONTIMANIAC 90

The L98 350s that came in 3rdGens were of the 2 bolt veriety. But you are not limited to just that block. There's also an upgrade from GMPerformance which is 4bolt version called L31. I don't think any factory cars came w/those.
I hope that helps.

L98
Part # 12510737

Block: Cast Iron, 2 - Bolt
Rear Seal: 1 - Piece
Crankshaft: Nodular Iron
Stroke: 3.480"
Pistons: Cast Dish 4VR (-11cc)
Compression Ratio: 9.1:1 w/ 64cc heads
Compression Ratio: 8.4:1 w/ 72cc heads

L31
Part # 12556121

Block: Cast Iron 4 - Bolt
Rear Seal: 1 - Piece
Crankshaft: Nodular Iron
Stroke: 3.480"
Pistons: Cast Dish 4VR (-13cc)
Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 w/ 64cc heads
Compression Ratio: 8.3:1 w/ 72cc heads

Compared to the ZZ4 they have less compression w/same heads.