700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
04-30-2007, 08:46 PM
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Car: '83 T/A WS6
Engine: carbed 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ shift kit
700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Ive posted this before I think, but didnt get any response...
I just want to know if Im on the right track or not- does this sound like a pump issue? Would it be worth it to find a tranny dyno/would a dyno be able to tell me if its the pump or not?
Thanks-Any help/info is appreciated!
I just want to know if Im on the right track or not- does this sound like a pump issue? Would it be worth it to find a tranny dyno/would a dyno be able to tell me if its the pump or not?
Originally Posted by 83TransAmGirl
I had the stock high milage 700R4 that needed to be rebuilt, we bought the Trans-go shift kit for it, but realized the tranny needed more than a shift kit...so we had a friend of a friend rebuild the whole thing. I have a spec list of what he did to it but quickly: all new friction material, vette servo, our trans-go kit, stronger case,etc "Should handle 500hp no problem!"...he replaced just about everything but the pump...
fast forward 1.5yrs:
one day I put it in reverse hit the gas and the RPMs rise and rise but no movement, get the RPMs up to about 4k(ish) and it starts creeping backwards finally...the more I drive it, it starts doing the same thing in 1st gear too-acts like its got a 5k stall converter on it!
I called the guy who did the trans, he thinks its the torque converter, we replace it- 500 bucks later-same thing still, lots of RPM needed to get it to start moving...call the guy again who did the trans and he doesnt answer or return calls now...
Fast forward to now, Ive since had the built trans removed(sitting in my garage) and replaced with a stock used 700 which also burned up about a year later(bad TV cable)...the car has since been parked for the last 2 years due to frustations and lack of funds!
I have decided to get it up and running again, but no one wants to just look at the trans and tell me whats wrong, they all just want to rebuild the whole thing again, shouldnt the friction materials and basic wear items still be good?(only maybe 3k on the rebuild before I pulled it out)
I believe its just the pump that went bad-reverse takes the most pressure- I believe- and thats where it started, then got worse and started affecting the forward gears.
Now I dont know whether its worth taking it to a trans shop that has a trans dyno to see if they can tell me if thats it or not, or whether I should just buy and install a pump from BTO and hope that thats all that was damaged...
Does this sound like a pump issue? Should I take it to someone who has a Trans dyno? Will the dyno be able to tell them whats wrong with it? If so can you reccomend a So Cal Trans Shop that has a Tranny Dyno?
fast forward 1.5yrs:
one day I put it in reverse hit the gas and the RPMs rise and rise but no movement, get the RPMs up to about 4k(ish) and it starts creeping backwards finally...the more I drive it, it starts doing the same thing in 1st gear too-acts like its got a 5k stall converter on it!
I called the guy who did the trans, he thinks its the torque converter, we replace it- 500 bucks later-same thing still, lots of RPM needed to get it to start moving...call the guy again who did the trans and he doesnt answer or return calls now...
Fast forward to now, Ive since had the built trans removed(sitting in my garage) and replaced with a stock used 700 which also burned up about a year later(bad TV cable)...the car has since been parked for the last 2 years due to frustations and lack of funds!
I have decided to get it up and running again, but no one wants to just look at the trans and tell me whats wrong, they all just want to rebuild the whole thing again, shouldnt the friction materials and basic wear items still be good?(only maybe 3k on the rebuild before I pulled it out)
I believe its just the pump that went bad-reverse takes the most pressure- I believe- and thats where it started, then got worse and started affecting the forward gears.
Now I dont know whether its worth taking it to a trans shop that has a trans dyno to see if they can tell me if thats it or not, or whether I should just buy and install a pump from BTO and hope that thats all that was damaged...
Does this sound like a pump issue? Should I take it to someone who has a Trans dyno? Will the dyno be able to tell them whats wrong with it? If so can you reccomend a So Cal Trans Shop that has a Tranny Dyno?
05-01-2007, 12:27 PM
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Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 406 CI
Transmission: Pete K 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:55
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Ive posted this before I think, but didnt get any response...
I just want to know if Im on the right track or not- does this sound like a pump issue? Would it be worth it to find a tranny dyno/would a dyno be able to tell me if its the pump or not?
Thanks-Any help/info is appreciated!
I just want to know if Im on the right track or not- does this sound like a pump issue? Would it be worth it to find a tranny dyno/would a dyno be able to tell me if its the pump or not?
Thanks-Any help/info is appreciated!
Your problem could be the pump. It could also be in the reverse input drum. Valve body is remotely possible as well.
The trans dyno is only as good as the dyno operator. If he can read the pressures and accurately diagnose the problem based on his experience, it could help. The money spent on the dyno could also be use toward the overhaul instead.
Although there are alot of true professional trans builders with alot of knowledge and experience, the business is overwhelmed with parts swappers as well.
05-04-2007, 09:55 AM
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Car: 88 Firebird WS6
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
If you feel like pulling the trans you can get the pump out rather quickly and check for a stuck pressure release valve or broken vanes.....
Did you hook a pressure guage up to the service porst on the side and check it? I'd rather rip out and check the pump than have to remove/reinstall the trans.
more pics http://stinker.serveftp.net:8000
Did you hook a pressure guage up to the service porst on the side and check it? I'd rather rip out and check the pump than have to remove/reinstall the trans.
more pics http://stinker.serveftp.net:8000
Last edited by JoelOl75; 05-04-2007 at 10:01 AM.
05-04-2007, 11:39 PM
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Car: '83 T/A WS6
Engine: carbed 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ shift kit
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
The trans is already out and sitting in my garage, thats why I was looking for a trans dyno so I could check line pressures...and I know the pump isnt that hard to get at thats why Im hoping its the cause of this issue...
kinda the reason for the post, Im trying to decide whether I should just take the pump off and replace it in my garage for 135bucks and pray it runs when I reinstall it versus paying 1200 for a whole nother rebuild on a low mile built trans...
thanks for the info/suggestions, keep em comming
kinda the reason for the post, Im trying to decide whether I should just take the pump off and replace it in my garage for 135bucks and pray it runs when I reinstall it versus paying 1200 for a whole nother rebuild on a low mile built trans...
thanks for the info/suggestions, keep em comming
05-05-2007, 04:11 AM
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Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Are you planning on doing this work yourself? You could save a lot of money on this, and it looks like you have time. The front pump is the cause of almost all of this from your description. Once the pump is setup correctly, then you can chack out the other parts to make sure that everything is ok. I would use the DVD and the ATSG book to get a handle on this. Your quote, "one day I put it in reverse hit the gas and the RPMs rise and rise but no movement, get the RPMs up to about 4k(ish) and it starts creeping backwards finally...the more I drive it, it starts doing the same thing in 1st gear too-acts like its got a 5k stall converter on it!" The guy that told you is was the torque converter is a crook. A torque converter cannot cause this. This is the front pump most likely going away. A clogged filter can possibly start this, but the front pump
controls all of the oil volume that is needed to get things moving. I can help you out on this if you want? Let me know what questions you have on this.
"JoelOl75" is this 13 vane setup in a 700R4 pump?
controls all of the oil volume that is needed to get things moving. I can help you out on this if you want? Let me know what questions you have on this.
"JoelOl75" is this 13 vane setup in a 700R4 pump?
Last edited by Pro Built Automatics; 05-05-2007 at 04:28 AM.
05-06-2007, 03:18 PM
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Car: '83 T/A WS6
Engine: carbed 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ shift kit
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Are you planning on doing this work yourself? You could save a lot of money on this, and it looks like you have time. The front pump is the cause of almost all of this from your description. Once the pump is setup correctly, then you can chack out the other parts to make sure that everything is ok. I would use the DVD and the ATSG book to get a handle on this. Your quote, "one day I put it in reverse hit the gas and the RPMs rise and rise but no movement, get the RPMs up to about 4k(ish) and it starts creeping backwards finally...the more I drive it, it starts doing the same thing in 1st gear too-acts like its got a 5k stall converter on it!" The guy that told you is was the torque converter is a crook. A torque converter cannot cause this. This is the front pump most likely going away. A clogged filter can possibly start this, but the front pump
controls all of the oil volume that is needed to get things moving. I can help you out on this if you want? Let me know what questions you have on this.
"JoelOl75" is this 13 vane setup in a 700R4 pump?
controls all of the oil volume that is needed to get things moving. I can help you out on this if you want? Let me know what questions you have on this.
"JoelOl75" is this 13 vane setup in a 700R4 pump?
and now thats its out of the car it should be alot easier to work on, and Ive heard getting to the pump isnt hard...
I would love the help and Im glad to hear I wasnt too far off on my assumtion...to start what do I need to buy? how many vanes?
Thanks for your help!
Please feel free to e-mail me @ xbrittneybratx@yahoo.com
05-07-2007, 02:26 AM
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Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Do you have the ATSG build book or the equivalent? You will need to disassemble the front pump to see what has happened? Inspect the pump for wear and damage? Do you think that you and your dad can do this? If you want, you can call me if you have any questions on this. 909 7951876 Dana
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05-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Car: '83 T/A WS6
Engine: carbed 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ shift kit
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Do you have the ATSG build book or the equivalent? You will need to disassemble the front pump to see what has happened? Inspect the pump for wear and damage? Do you think that you and your dad can do this? If you want, you can call me if you have any questions on this. 909 7951876 Dana
Im sure we can disassemble just fine-its the putting it back together right thats the hard part! *L* but seriously with a build book it shoudnt be that hard, auto trans have just always spooked me with the number of tiny parts! Like I said me and my dad had to drain the fluid/drop the pan/remove the valve body/fix it/install it/try to drive it-3 times before we got everything in the right place and the car could back out of the garage by itself!
Once I have it apart I will definaltey be in contact with you...unfortunately we've recently found out me and my fiance have to move out soon and we are in the midst of the big rent or buy decision(plus planning a wedding), so time and money are short right now! But you've definalty inspired me to tear into it one of these weekends...
Let me know where to get that book and Ill clear off a spot on the workbench and drag the trans from one side of the garage to the other and get my big strong man to get it up onto the workbench-Then let the disassembly begin!
05-08-2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Yes, the ATSG build book would be a good start, I carry them ($17.00). Let me know when you are ready.
PS: Elope or have a small wedding, use the money saved for your new home. I have seen to many people spend wayyyy to much on the wedding over the years, and not own a home for years. I have been married almost 32 years, and the cost of getting married was $35.00, you won't regret it, believe me.
PS: Elope or have a small wedding, use the money saved for your new home. I have seen to many people spend wayyyy to much on the wedding over the years, and not own a home for years. I have been married almost 32 years, and the cost of getting married was $35.00, you won't regret it, believe me.
05-13-2007, 01:44 PM
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Car: 88 Firebird WS6
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Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
"JoelOl75" is this 13 vane setup in a 700R4 pump?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know from what I've heard the 10 vane is more than adaquate, but this was awhile ago when I rebuilt it.
Still shifts great.
Yes, I know from what I've heard the 10 vane is more than adaquate, but this was awhile ago when I rebuilt it.
Still shifts great.
05-14-2007, 10:18 PM
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Car: '83 T/A WS6
Engine: carbed 305
Transmission: 700R4 w/ shift kit
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
Yes, the ATSG build book would be a good start, I carry them ($17.00). Let me know when you are ready.
PS: Elope or have a small wedding, use the money saved for your new home. I have seen to many people spend wayyyy to much on the wedding over the years, and not own a home for years. I have been married almost 32 years, and the cost of getting married was $35.00, you won't regret it, believe me.
PS: Elope or have a small wedding, use the money saved for your new home. I have seen to many people spend wayyyy to much on the wedding over the years, and not own a home for years. I have been married almost 32 years, and the cost of getting married was $35.00, you won't regret it, believe me.
Re:PS:
Yeah as for our wedding/life priorities they go something like this:
1) own a home with land (or be in the process)
2) buy rings(we've been engaged almost a year now and still have no rings-why do you need 2 sets of rings? Id rather have one nice one)
3) have a small personal wedding
Ive never wanted a big wedding but he is the oldest of nine, so I need a big place to hold the wedding but no bridesmaids or groomsmen, no big redicules cakes, no fancy invitations, no 1000 dollar plus dress,etc....We're planning on less than 5k for the whole deal! Id be happy with a Vegas wedding but his family is big into the church, so we can have it at the church for no cost to us...time to start making some desicions and plans...
05-15-2007, 08:00 PM
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Car: 1988 Firebird, 2000 GTP
Engine: 327
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9" posi, 4.11
Re: 700R4 Pump question-How do I tell if thats whats wrong?
I just got done rebuilding a 700R4. Still waiting on the shift kit to show up though.
There are a lot less parts in the pump than I thought there would be. About the only thing I can see in there that would limit your pressures to get the pistons to apply clutches, would be:
*Some junk got into the pump valve body, preventing valve movement.
*Somehow the vanes or rotor chewed up the pump body and is limiting pressure from "blowby".
*I had a bunch of plastic particles in the little pump filter because the main filter gasket got so hard that it just broke up and got sucked into the pump.
*You could also have a problem with torque converter to pump engagement. Maybe you just aren't spinning the pump at all.
There are a lot less parts in the pump than I thought there would be. About the only thing I can see in there that would limit your pressures to get the pistons to apply clutches, would be:
*Some junk got into the pump valve body, preventing valve movement.
*Somehow the vanes or rotor chewed up the pump body and is limiting pressure from "blowby".
*I had a bunch of plastic particles in the little pump filter because the main filter gasket got so hard that it just broke up and got sucked into the pump.
*You could also have a problem with torque converter to pump engagement. Maybe you just aren't spinning the pump at all.
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