jminton

Car is an 85 IROC, manual transmission, 3.73 rear. All parts are original except for brakes and parking brake cables, along with headers and catback. It also has a Hurst shifter. There are 42500 original miles on the engine and drivetrain. Car was found in a barn. Until now, I have never had a mechanical problem with this vehicle.

Last night I was driving down the highway. Suddenly, a wild high pitched screech appeared. By the time I could say "WTF" my rear wheels had locked and I was sliding all over the highway at about 90 mph. (Not really sure of the speed, needle was buried).

As of right now, I haven't had a chance to dig in to it. My plan is to pull the driveshaft and see if the rear wheels turn. I think that would eliminate a serious problem with the rear end (though I understand at 2500 rpm, a dead lock such as that would have caused damage).

As of last night, the shifter would not move out of 5th gear position. I didn't try real hard to force it out either, because I was afraid of breaking something, and also because I was shaking like a mother!@#$).

Any suggestions as to what might be my problem, or where to start are appreciated. I'll be under it in a few hours probably.



UPDATE: Rear of the car is raised. With nothing disconnected, rear wheels turn but the yoke does not. As of right now, I'm waiting for the PB Blaster to do it's job so I can get the driveshaft off the rear.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Interesting story; especially the parts in the white space all around the edges and in between the lines, where useful information belongs instead of what's there.

It's probably in 2 gears at the same time. Probably has something to do with all that fine print in between the 1st and the 2nd sentences of the 2nd paragraph (between "I was driving..." and "Suddenly..."). The fine print right before "I was driving... " might offer some clues as well.

jminton

Not real sure what you mean by the fine print.

No, smarta$$, I was driving at 90 (or some speed faster than the speedometer could show). There was a high pitched scream. The rear tires locked up. I was cruising in 5th. Now the trans is stuck in 5th.

Sofa, do provide any real assistance at all or is this just a place for you to vent when you're not microwaving kittens for pleasure and profit?

Edwardgp

That would be the first thing I would do. Get her up in the air and pull the drive line lets see what happened. If it is not the rear end there are ways of getting the transmission out of the two gear jam up.

jminton

If it is a 2 gear jam up, how would I go about getting it out? Not being very familiar with transmissions in general, would that mean I need a rebuild? I have seen and held a t-5 taken apart at a shop, but my knowledge of how they work is extremely limited.

Edward, thank you for your reply. /smiles

Edwardgp

We need to find out what it is for sure, the two gear jam most of the time can be fixed by tapping and some times hitting the linking arms on the transmission. You do not want to do this unless it is the problem. Get her in the air so we know what is wrong and we will go from there.

8t2 z-chev

sounds like a bearing locked up in the tranny.

Edwardgp

OK jminton did you get her up in the air what are we finding you have the drive line out????????????????????????

irocarter

iTrader: (1)

The t5 has an internal shift rail. There is no linkage to tap or hit to unbind it. 5th gear and reverse gear share the same shift rail (internally) sounds like something could be bound up there.
I think sofa is a funny guy unless your the guy he's f##king with.

Edwardgp

OH alright then I think jminton should still pull the drive line to see which end is locked up. Sorry about the tapping information I am so old school, gray hair and all. Have to get my Camaro ready for the summer if we have one out here in the rain forest. I don't pay much attention to sofa that is just the way it is.

jminton

Sorry I haven't updated. As soon as I drug out the jack work called me in. I don't really know how long they're going to keep me, but hopefully it won't be all day. This website sure isn't phone friendly. Took me a long time to get to this point so I could at least reply. I'll keep you guys updated.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Son, what I mean is, go re-read your post; and imagine what you'd think if lets's say, you loaned your car out to somebody, and they brought it back to you, and started feeding YOU that same line of baloney.

Where useful information belongs... like, telling us what you were REALLY doing and what REALLY happened that led up to this.... there's this deafening silence. Because quite simply, things like that don't just "happen", and WE ALL KNOW IT.

Yes I have children of my own. They used to load crap like that onto me from time to time too. When they turned about 14 or so, I discovered that just absolutely instantly overnight one day, without even noticing it, I changed from a functional contributing member of society, to the stupidest most useless blob of protoplasm to ever splatter onto the face of this miserable planet. They used to come at me with stuff like that all the time, AS IF, I had never been 14 or 15 or 18 myself, and they were the intrepid explorer daring to tread where no living human had ever dared or been smart enough to tread. I've noticed though, now that they have jobs and bills of their own and stuff like that, I'm beginning to recover a little of my former mediocre intelligence - only a little so far though - although they let me know plenty often that I'm still a long way from their lofty intellectual heights. I suspect though, once they have mortgages and babies and stuff like that all their own, I'll remarkably recover most if not all of my former abilities; just in time to be used as a babysitter and such.

/rant mode off

Anyway, if you tell us what you were REALLY doing and what REALLY happened, we can maybe stand a better chance of telling you what REALLY tore up in your car. Come clean and admit it. There's more shame in trying to play all of us out here for being a bunch of fools and complaining about this FREE website you can come to and beg for our help, than in telling the truth about what you did.

No I don't intend to be "mean", just, realistic; and maybe a little bit miffed when I get my intelligence insulted by someone thinking they can pull the wool over my eyes.

jminton

This is going to be fun. I love dealing with asshats.

Seriously, I'm motherf'ing 30. I have kids of MY own, retard. WTF gain do I have to come here and not say what I was REALLY doing? I was REALLY cruising down the damn highway. The speedometer needle was REALLY buried. SO F'IN SORRY I DON'T HAVE AN ACTUAL SPEED. The rear wheels REALLY locked up. The transmission REALLY won't get out of 5th gear. I REALLY ALMOST WENT INTO A GIANT DITCH. What in the ****ing world else do YOU, Sofa, want me to tell you? If you can't act like a normal human being, stay the **** OUT OF MY THREADS.

TL;DR - Sofa, get your goddamn head out of your goddamn ***. You could assume that people are telling you the goddamn truth before you act like a piece of ****.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Wow, I must have really touched a nerve somewhere there!!

Tell us what you WERE REALLY doing, and what REALLY led up to you tearing up your transmission, instead of feeding us a pack of half-truths AT BEST if not outright lies; and then maybe we WHO HAVE PROBABLY ALREADY TORN UP MORE TRANSMISSIONS THAN YOU CAN EVEN COUNT THAT HIGH, speaking of course strictly for myself (yes I've tore up literally DOZENS of T-5s) can tell you what you tore up.

Just the facts, young son. The whole truth, and nothing but the truth. No hiding, candy-coating, or juvenile outbursts. That's all. THE TRUTH. Or, not much anybody can do to help you.

8t2 z-chev

couldn't the tranny running out of oil cause it to lock?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Not really.... especially not all of a sudden without warning out of the clear blue I wasn't doing nothin you can't prove anything wink wink nudge nudge.... but that'll sure tear one up real good in other ways.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

pull the rear u-joint straps, pull the u-joint out of the pinion yoke, see if the rear is locked up.

If no, beat the ever loving bitch juice out of the shifter to see if you can get it out of 5th. Pretend it's sofa, in fact. Then you'll feel better and you'll know that since it didn't come out of gear, you need to pull the trans. and move onto rebuild mode.

As for things magically occurring with transmissions such as this event, I figure if someone misses a shift and the damage doesn't show up until later, it doesn't change whether I'm getting paid to fix it. My level of consternation may change when my son is older, of course.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

NOW you're talking!!!

jmd

iTrader: (4)

That's what happened to sofa.

In an overdrive gear, the slip yoke has more leverage over the input shaft (mechanical leverage via gear ratio) so it would take a lot for a smallish bearing to prevent the transmission from rotating. In fact, if it were a single synchronizable gear's bearing like in a WC T5 or T56, shifting out of the gear would help unlock things significantly. But, the NWC T5 doesn't have roller bearings like a WC does so there goes that. And the shifter is stuck, which takes us back to post # 2, paragraph 2, sentence 1.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Very true, except that it didn't lock... it just made so much noise just as we got to Birmnigham coming back from Talladega back in about .... ,,,,, ............ early 90s sometime (it was the time that Rusty Wallce endo'ed across the SF line) that my about 7-yr-old son was holding his ears and people were coming out of their houses to see what the H3!! was going down their street, until the last couple of teeth finally ate themselves off the clutch gear & countergear about when we got to Tupelo. Yeah I didn't do nothin either... just drivin down the road with my kid and it just up and tore up out of the blue without warning what a piece of s***.... I'm not gonna tell ya about how I didn't even REALIZE (having grown up through the 60s and 70s with 4-speeds) that it was even POSSIBLE to take my right foot off the gas while shifting .... lemme tell ya, T-5s don't appreciate that.... but not even THAT was enough to make it "lock up". But I'm not going to get sand all in my mang*** about it either.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I thought yours was removed in the change / proshifted - surgery / upgrade? So sand wouldn't lock up your bushings and interlock cams.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Not sure what you mean there, you might have me mixed up with some one of the other satisfied swappers; but, I definitely removed it, and put in a T-56. I've got a shelf full of worthless tore up t-5s now that I've needed to throw in the trash now for about 20 yrs but have been too lazy. Maybe tomorrow, OK?? The very last one I got, I FINALLY (after 40 years or so of driving stick shift cars) figured out how to lift my right foot while shifting. Slowed me down quite a bit, but (funny thing!!!) transmissions started lasting alot longer.

Yeah, I don't think there's much any kid that's only 30 yrs old can tell me about tearing up manual transmissions.... of course as soon as I say that, somebody will tear one up in some whole new unexpected way. But I'd have to guess, as someone who ran a LIVELY business rebuilding 4-speeds back in the late 70s and early 80s, back when the OP was not even a gleam in his momma's eye yet because she was still in about the 4th grade and she hadn't discovered "that kind" of gleam just yet, that there probably aren't many such ways left that I haven't seen.

jminton

Think what you will. Clearly you're an asshat. What I have previously told you is what happened. I don't know what kind of half truths or outright lies you think you're getting, but you can either take my word for it, or leave the thread.

Again, what I have already explained to have happened is what happened. Take it or leave it.

Edwardgp

OK jminton we will be waiting to see what went wrong and I will do what ever I can to help you out.

jminton

jmd, looks like that's the plan for tomorrow. Would there be any damage to the transmission if the rear is actually locked?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Of course.

BUT.... an asshat that has forgot JUST TODAY more about T-5s than YOU will ever learn in the rest of your life, at the rate you're going right now.

Why would I do that?

Once you hang it out on the Internet, it's fair game FOR ALL.

Tell us THE TRUTH, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and maybe we can tell you what to look for what you tore up. Otherwise, you get to take the trans out, take it apart, and HOPE you know what to look at & for.

Now I don't know about you, but where I come from, "hope" is not a plan.

Lose the teenage attitude and come clean and tell us what was REALLY going on at the time, and maybe we can tell you what went wrong.

Edwardgp

OMG

jminton

is there any way to ignore someone via a forum setting? I obviously cannot properly convey how there is no extra information to be given.

Edwardgp

I don't know for sure maybe you can report him.

jminton

That seems overkill. He's got over 10k posts, maybe he's not an *** to everybody, I just don't want to deal with him anymore on this or any problem I have in the future.

Edwardgp

I hear you on that lets try and get you on the road.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Why would that be a good idea? You'd want to ignore someone WHO COULD HELP YOU IF YOU JUST BROKE DOWN AND TOLD THE TRUTH? Really??

Tell us WHAT YOU WERE REALLY DOING, and WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, and we can probably tell you what you tore up.

I'm not really understanding why you think it's important that you hide THE TRUTH. Where I come from, people who do that, automatically arouse suspicion as being LIARS.

Tell us WHAT REALLY HAPPENED and then those of us who know the innards of that transmission, can probably tell you what you broke.

Can I use the word TRUTH any more times? Do you detect any hint of deception on my part? Am I telling you something while witholding ANY of the REL FACTS?

Look d00d, I was born at night (as no doubt, lots of other knowledgeable people on this board were), but it wasn't LAST NIGHT.

What further inducement can I offer to get you to quit with the hiding and covering up, and just come out and tell THE TRUTH?

Come on, we don't know your name or where you live or anything like that, no "gear police" are going to come hunt you down for tearing up your T-5, it's OK, REALLY. We all just thought you'd really like to know how your trans failed. We can't tell you if you continue to hide the TRUE FACTS from us. Look, I promise, we won't think any worse about you if you TELL THE TRUTH, we might even respect you more (like ... some, at all?) if you show us you're honest.

What REALLY HAPPENED?

jminton

I'm Josh. I live in Central NC.

I do really want to know why it failed.

Reread my first post if you want the facts. I can't be more honest than that. Yes, I would ignore you if I could. You continue to insist that there is something that I'm leaving out. So sorry that you detect deception on my part. There is no more information to give you at this points. Take what I said or leave it, I don't really care anymore. I give.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

Sofa is a well known member on here. You obviously dont seem like you have been around forums much.

If you gave some more details like, I was banging gears not lifting to shift. Got to about 90 slamming it into 5th gear, then she locked up. Well, he might be satisfied with that answer? Haha.

Instead of spending so much time on here arguing with SOFA, get out there, jack the car up, pull the driveshaft and see if the rear spins. Does it? then it's not the rear! If it's locked up. Well hey, it's the rearend.

If it does spin. Then it is probably the transmission. Have you tried starting the engine? Push the clutch in, and start the engine. Tell us if it runs or not, if the engine runs, and the rear end spin. Hey, it's probably the transmission.

You have a weak little t5, they are not known for being strong. Something is probably broke inside and it locked up. Could be a bearing, could be some gears, who knows.

You will have to get out there and find out.

jminton

I wasn't banging gears. I try real hard not to. Honestly, I was trying to save this car for my son when he got old enough. I've got an 87 SC in the garage that I've stripped, built a 350 for (not a real extreme 350 mind you. That engine was my first and I really wanted to keep it as simple as possible being the first). I've had the car in my possession for a little under 3k miles. It sat in a barn before that. I can't say what the PO did to it; he died and his father kept it in the barn.

I've been a member of the forums for a long time, I'm just more of a lurker than anything. I really don't have the background to put in my two cents.

Yes, the motor does start if the clutch is pushed in. I haven't tried to let the clutch out with it in 5th though. There was no fluid leaking out from the car after this incident or before (I walked the highway looking for some kind of fluid dump before the tow arrived).

Being blatantly called a liar really just sets me off. Its one of the few things that does.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

OK here's the deal:

You're the ripe old age of 30.

That means, I've owned T-5 Z28s since YOU WERE IN DIAPERS.

I tore up my first one BEFORE YOU COULD EAT SOLID FOOD.

I was building 4-speeds and other manual transmissions when your parents were probably still IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

There may be people on here you can fool, but that would nt include me.

I continue to insist that something else is going on here, BECAUSE IT IS. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on stick shift transmissions, at least half a million I'd say, and ONLY ONCE have I had one "lock up". It was a B-W T-85 3-spd in a mid-60s Frod product if memory serves (could have been a T-86, it's been about 40 years, so that brain cell is mostly dead now). And at that instant, I WAS SHIFTING GEARS. It did EXACTLY what you describe your T-5 doing: because at that moment, the POS stock shifter that was in it, a "rod" shifter completely unlike the "rail" arrangement in a T-5, put it in 1st and 2nd at the same time. It locked up the drive train as solid as a brick wall and squeeeeeeled itself to a stop by the side of the road. Fortunately for me it was only doing about 20 mph at the time so it wasn't too much of a loss of control situation. But I can easily see where THAT PART of your story is THE TRUTH, anyway: if you were just innocently and unsuspectingly cruising nonchalantly down the highway doing 90 mph in a car with 3.73 gears, like the speed just sort of crept up on you while you weren't watching (you can't prove anything!) and all the sudden out of the clear blue with no warning it just suddenly shifted itself into 2 gears, ..... then,,, ......... ,,,,,, ..... yeah.

The important thing about that story is, I WAS SHIFTING GEARS AND THAT'S WHAT MADE IT LOCK UP. Anybody that's ever built manual transmissions knows, that's when manual transmissions break about 90% of the time, is WHEN SHIFTING GEARS. Therefore, if I was the betting kind (I'm not; I teach statistics at one of the local major universities) I'd bet that you were shifting gears.

Not that there's anything wrong with shifting gears; only, that you so far haven't been willing to admit that that's what was going on at the time, which more than likely involved shifting gears. We just don't know yet which ones from and to. Yet. I'm hoping we can draw that out.

How much else haven't you told us yet?

Now please, come clean and tell us WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON at the instant the transmission failed.

Otherwise, we can't tell you what's tore up.

It's real simple at this point: tell us the WHOLE story, we'll tell you what to look for. Keep the cover-up going on, you're on your own.

I'm trying to HELP you. But I can't do that as long as you keep up the little game you're playing. Right now you're a little like a person who doesn't know how to swim and they're drowning, but when somebody throws them a life preserver, they're too stubborn to put it on, lest everybody realize they REALLY don't know how to swim. So what's it going to be; admit the TRUTH and grab the float, or be bullheaded and drown?

Your choice.

jminton

No, I wasn't shifting gears. Where I was at the time I had been on the highway for about 30 minutes, and the only speed changes during that time were 65 to 70 (limits). IMO, no need to downshift. I could see the exit up ahead, so I likely let off the gas (about 1 mile ahead. No reason to brake, especially since we were at the end of rush hour so there was quite a bit of traffic still and I try not to brake on the highway if I can avoid it. Also, no reason to engage clutch because I was a mile away.).

I knew I was doing 90 or above. Could be that the speed thing is complete bullshit because I was not really passing traffic, so the speedo could be off.

I can't say any louder that there was no shifting involved. I don't know what else to tell you.

Seriously though, if you could come off as less of a dick, that would help out a lot. I couldn't give 10 ***** that you were breaking transmissions before I could eat solid food. Good for you. Be less of a dick. That's what my real problem with you is.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well OK; I guess there's not much I can help you with then. I'm not going to sit here and go through a lits of things that it "might" be, depending on what THE TRUTH really is. Sorry I tried to be nice and HELP you out. I'll make sure I don't do that for you again.

Pull it out, take it apart, and good luck.

jminton

Thanks.

HankL69

iTrader: (1)

What is so hard to believe about something mechanical breaking while traveling at high speed down the highway. The damage could have been done much earlier (by the PO) and just let go at that point.
I had a t-5 that suddenly, in the middle of a 50 mile road trip, started making a loud clicking (for lack of a better word) sound. I didn't do any speed shifting or other gear banging. When I tore it down there were two teeth off of the secondary shaft input gear. One of those teeth could have caused a lot of damage if it had not fallen down into the sump. The only way to understand what happened is to open things up and check visually where the damage is. It sounds like the problem is in the transmission since it will not come out of 5th gear.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Click username, click view public profile, click user lists and it's there.

Edwardgp

It has not happened to me but I have seen one lock up at highway speeds and it is pretty f!@# scary.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I would be guessing tranny because as said it is stuck in fifth gear. Assuming no shifting I would say that something broke and got stuck in the gears to fifth as that is what it was in and would explain why it will not shift out of.
I have never seen or heard of something like that happening before but is the only thing that seems to fit with not shifting.
I have had a Ford granny 4 sp lock up in two gears on me but I was shifting when it happened. In my case it came out of gear easy and worked in reverse but put it back in 2nd and it was still locked up. Finished driving home in reverse. By then it started working right.

Edwardgp

I love those happy endings, was your neck sore 91phoenix.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I was on a truck route near my turn off so I was only going about 30 and probably slowing some as I was down shifting. No sore neck (surprisingly) and just slightly shaken. I slid about 50 - 80 ft total. I was in a 1960 Ford F100 w/ a 460 and a Granny 4 speed toploader trans.

I am waiting to hear what the OP finds.

jminton

UPDATE: Rear of the car is raised. With nothing disconnected, rear wheels turn but the yoke does not. As of right now, I'm waiting for the PB Blaster to do it's job so I can get the driveshaft off the rear.

On another note, does anyone know the origin of this?

jminton

UPDATE 2: Driveshaft removed, yoke turned freely and moved the wheels.

Edwardgp

Alright jminton time to look at the transmission, IMO I would drain it and check the oil for foreign material.

jminton

Is it 5 quarts of fluid in the transmission?

jmd

iTrader: (4)

No. Identify the fill plug (NOT the passenger side bolt for the reverse linkage pivot) and fill to that point. Hey, you're not even there yet!