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Hey guys, I have a 350 SB in my 85 IROC and it's connected to a borg warner 6 speed out of a 2002 Camaro. Put a brand new flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate in it back when I rebuilt it. It probably doesn't have more than 200 miles on it currently. I tore it all apart and found something potentially concerning...see attached photos. Looks to me this is some really odd, uneven wear and markings on the flywheel and pressure plate after only 200 miles. Anyone have experience regarding wear and tear in clutches and what should be expected after such a low amount of miles? I haven't had any issues with it besides I feel the clutch pedal is way too light. Wish it was heavier. No chatter, slipping, etc that I've noticed.
Why did you pull it out? How was it shifting? How was the engagement and disengagement? You said the pedal was light, was it grabbing low or high? It looks like it's been pretty hot, I assume it's been slipping most of those 200 miles. You may need to tell about the actual components. A sbc usually won't bolt up to a 2002 ls t56 without certain parts to make things work. What clutch hydros/release system are you using?
Why did you pull it out? How was it shifting? How was the engagement and disengagement? You said the pedal was light, was it grabbing low or high? It looks like it's been pretty hot, I assume it's been slipping most of those 200 miles. You may need to tell about the actual components. A sbc usually won't bolt up to a 2002 ls t56 without certain parts to make things work. What clutch hydros/release system are you using?
Thanks for the reply! Replacing all of the seals in the engine after it sat in storage the past 8 years. Leaking like a siv. Honestly I always thought the car shifted completely normally but it was definitely grabbing high. The pedal was very easy to push in and would mostly engage towards the last 1/4 of the pedal throw. I actually used all aftermarket bolt on 1995 Camaro (sorry wrong year in earlier post) clutch components including flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bellhousing, clutch fork, slave cylinder. Master cylinder is the original 1985 if I remember correctly. I modified the slave fittings to work with the master and seemed to engage correctly.
Your clutch disk looks ok but the metal surfaces look like lots of hot spots. To be honest, I've never pulled a clutch w 200 miles. I wonder is the spots are heat related from breaking in. They don't grip properly for 2-300 miles according to the clutch manufactures. The pedal being light and high is likely due to the slight mismatch in your hydro parts. The light feel is ok as long as there is good engagement/disengagement. There are pedal travel adjusters, I have one in my car and love it. It may be worth sending the clutch pics to ram clutch tech help. They are really helpful and may give you good info on what a 200 mile clutch should look like heat wise. They are really helpful w stuff like this.
if your not happy w your clutch hydros, look at American powertrains 82-92 t56 kit. I have it in my car w a dual disk. The pedal is little lighter than a stock clutch with a clutch that holds 750hp. I was also able to plumb the high adjuster in.
if your happy w your setup then just reface the parts and run it!
That sure looks like heat damage to both surfaces. Too many hole shots and powershifts? The clutch disc looks like new though. I'd probably get the flywheel resurfaced and run it. Back in the "day" a high clutch engagement indicated a worn out clutch but with today's hydraulics it's pretty common with replacement parts. Looks like a pretty stout heavy duty clutch setup though.
That clutch has been slipping, maybe just slightly, but something has caused it to slip (like the throwout bearing constantly riding on the pressure plate), heating up the pressure plate and flywheel.
Hard to say, I would wager that it hasn't even made it through the break-in period - in which case, if it was working, and felt OK, then I wouldn't worry about it, especially if you didn't hear any excessive chatter or smell anything cooking. According to my clutch manufacturer (McLeod) it takes between 1,200 and 1,500 clutch engagements to break-in. After only 200 miles, unless you've been shifting like Paul Walker, I doubt you're anywhere close to that?
That thing is smoked. The disc is completely worn out, esp around the outer edge, and the metal surfaces are destroyed by heat. Not sure the flywheel is even salvageable at this point.
Looks to me like too much riding the clutch on takeoff, probably due to not enough rear gear, or need of driver education. That's about the only way to generate that much heat that fast, short of all 200 miles resulting from several seasons of campaigning it on a regional points bracket-race circuit.
What gears are in it? Who's been driving it? What do they report that launching it is like?
Last edited by sofakingdom; 05-01-2024 at 08:11 PM.
Thank you all for your replies! So like I mentioned, I put this clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel in about 8-9 years ago all brand new. I put about 150 miles on it immediately and then it sat in storage for the next 7 years rarely ever moving, typically starting in 3-4 times a year, drive it around the block, and right back into storage. Definitely a lot of clutch action and not a lot of good quality driving. Responding below to a few of your comments.
Originally Posted by Firechicken82
Your clutch disk looks ok but the metal surfaces look like lots of hot spots. To be honest, I've never pulled a clutch w 200 miles. I wonder is the spots are heat related from breaking in. They don't grip properly for 2-300 miles according to the clutch manufactures. The pedal being light and high is likely due to the slight mismatch in your hydro parts. The light feel is ok as long as there is good engagement/disengagement. There are pedal travel adjusters, I have one in my car and love it. It may be worth sending the clutch pics to ram clutch tech help. They are really helpful and may give you good info on what a 200 mile clutch should look like heat wise. They are really helpful w stuff like this.
if your not happy w your clutch hydros, look at American powertrains 82-92 t56 kit. I have it in my car w a dual disk. The pedal is little lighter than a stock clutch with a clutch that holds 750hp. I was also able to plumb the high adjuster in.
if your happy w your setup then just reface the parts and run it!
I definitely haven't had any issues that I've noticed, always grabbed well and never any chattering or slipping that I've noticed. No clutch burning smell either. I'm going to reach out to RAM and get their opinion, good call. I did some investigation and it definitely looks like this is a RAM clutch...plus, RAM sounds super familiar haha. Checked out the t56 kit. 700 bucks! There's a high chance that this could be causing my issue since I'm using all stock 1985 master and slave on the t56... I'd guess that it might be just slightly engaging the clutch which is making it slip ever so slightly causing the burning marks. I haven't noticed the slip though...
That sure looks like heat damage to both surfaces. Too many hole shots and powershifts? The clutch disc looks like new though. I'd probably get the flywheel resurfaced and run it. Back in the "day" a high clutch engagement indicated a worn out clutch but with today's hydraulics it's pretty common with replacement parts. Looks like a pretty stout heavy duty clutch setup though.
Definitely a lot of hole shots on the road, never the track, when I first started driving it. Like I mentioned above, zero quality driving over the past 7 years. Just moving back and forth in and out of storage. I can still see some of the originally machining/honing markings on the pressure plate and flywheel. I'd hate to get it resurfaced already...
Originally Posted by ironwill
That clutch has been slipping, maybe just slightly, but something has caused it to slip (like the throwout bearing constantly riding on the pressure plate), heating up the pressure plate and flywheel.
Originally Posted by RedLeader289
Hard to say, I would wager that it hasn't even made it through the break-in period - in which case, if it was working, and felt OK, then I wouldn't worry about it, especially if you didn't hear any excessive chatter or smell anything cooking. According to my clutch manufacturer (McLeod) it takes between 1,200 and 1,500 clutch engagements to break-in. After only 200 miles, unless you've been shifting like Paul Walker, I doubt you're anywhere close to that?
No gnarly shifting like Paul Walker, RIP. I doubt I've have that many engagements. See above on how its been driven. I'd almost like to clean it, reinstall it, and drive 1000 miles and see how its feeling.
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
That thing is smoked. The disc is completely worn out, esp around the outer edge, and the metal surfaces are destroyed by heat. Not sure the flywheel is even salvageable at this point.
Looks to me like too much riding the clutch on takeoff, probably due to not enough rear gear, or need of driver education. That's about the only way to generate that much heat that fast, short of all 200 miles resulting from several seasons of campaigning it on a regional points bracket-race circuit.
What gears are in it? Who's been driving it? What do they report that launching it is like?
This is the most concerning response yet... I added some additional photos. The clutch looks like it still has all/most of the meat left on it? I'm the only one driving it and not riding the clutch at all. This makes me think my set up is slightly engaging the clutch causing a small amount of slip as mentioned above. 3.73 Eaton Posi diff. See above for how its been driven the past 7 years. Its sad, I know BUT its finally out of storage and back on the road! (Almost)
Thank you all for your replies! So like I mentioned, I put this clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel in about 8-9 years ago all brand new. I put about 150 miles on it immediately and then it sat in storage for the next 7 years rarely ever moving, typically starting in 3-4 times a year, drive it around the block, and right back into storage. Definitely a lot of clutch action and not a lot of good quality driving. Responding below to a few of your comments.
I definitely haven't had any issues that I've noticed, always grabbed well and never any chattering or slipping that I've noticed. No clutch burning smell either. I'm going to reach out to RAM and get their opinion, good call. I did some investigation and it definitely looks like this is a RAM clutch...plus, RAM sounds super familiar haha. Checked out the t56 kit. 700 bucks! There's a high chance that this could be causing my issue since I'm using all stock 1985 master and slave on the t56... I'd guess that it might be just slightly engaging the clutch which is making it slip ever so slightly causing the burning marks. I haven't noticed the slip though...
Definitely a lot of hole shots on the road, never the track, when I first started driving it. Like I mentioned above, zero quality driving over the past 7 years. Just moving back and forth in and out of storage. I can still see some of the originally machining/honing markings on the pressure plate and flywheel. I'd hate to get it resurfaced already...
No gnarly shifting like Paul Walker, RIP. I doubt I've have that many engagements. See above on how its been driven. I'd almost like to clean it, reinstall it, and drive 1000 miles and see how its feeling.
This is the most concerning response yet... I added some additional photos. The clutch looks like it still has all/most of the meat left on it? I'm the only one driving it and not riding the clutch at all. This makes me think my set up is slightly engaging the clutch causing a small amount of slip as mentioned above. 3.73 Eaton Posi diff. See above for how its been driven the past 7 years. Its sad, I know BUT its finally out of storage and back on the road! (Almost)
04-30-2024, 08:18 PM
