BBSDesigns

Hello guys and gals, we are looking for a test vehicle to try out our new turbo kit for the 2.8 & 3.1 liter V6. We already have installed the kit on our project 2.8L V6 Camaro, but unfortunately the Camaro did not have the complete A/C system. The single turbo kit was designed to fit with all power accesories including operating A/C, except the air pump, and although we designed all pipes to clear the A/C system we still need to be sure about that. So we are looking for that "brave one" to try and see if the kit fits on all V6's 3rd gen F-body vehicles with the complete operating A/C system. The first person to contact us and close the deal will have a considerable discount. For more information please e-mail us at; bermudezbrainstormingdesigns@hotmail.com or visit us at www.bbsdesigns.net
Thank you,
Edgardo

V8 Slayer

Where you guys located?

Ziggster

It says Isla del Encanto, Puerto Rico under his name so......

The_Raven

I'll post this over at 60* as well.

V8 Slayer

Yeah, then I have no way of getting there. Let alone with my car to be tested.. I will post this over at several other F-Body forums in the V6 Sections.

BBSDesigns

I forgot to include some pictures of the kit so here they are;
Sorry for the watermark, but some web thieves on ebay where selling nothing (fraud) using pictures of several manufacturers, including us.

BBSDesigns

#2

BBSDesigns

#3

BBSDesigns

#4


The person we are looking does not need to live here in Puerto Rico, the kit is easily installed so anyone with basic skills can do it. The only thing needed after installation is done is a visit to a muffler shop to finish the exhaust. Price for the kit is $1695.00. First person to close the deal will have it for $1550.00!
Edgardo

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

I wanna hear what doward has to say about this turbo kit. How much hp and tq are we looking at over stock? Does it come with new chip/ fuel injectors??? sounds too good for the price hope this isnt a scam. If its not then i will be defentely saving up for one of these.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

what kind of exhaust manifold/y-pipe does it require? what size is the turbo, is it intercooled, would you be able to give some stats on this system? it would be appreciated.

nevermind, i just noticed the link to your site, my bad.

Gumby

I would be the last person to poo poo on someones party but I would only use a secure payment system like paypal where you can get insurance on the purchase and a refund if you never recieve the items.

No offense but sending over $1500 out of country is one major crap shot now a days.

kretos

price sounds way to good to be true, i'm not saying this is a scam, i'd love to get a turbo kit for under 1700 dollars, i'll wait till doward chips in his 2 cents.

but if this is legit its one hell of a deal, and i'll be saving for one forsure

Doward

First, I just want to say, I'm very happy to see more aftermarket support for the 60º V6. That's what we are ALL after, right?

Having said that... No intercooler?

With no boost pressures set, I'll just throw this out -

10psi on a 2.8L @ 6000 rpm = ~35lbs/min (with no pressure loss due to intercooler) is going to sit around 74% efficiency.

Same story, on a 3.1L - ~38lbs/min is around 72% efficiency.

For reference, the 50trim T04e I include in my kit is at 74% efficiency on the 2.8, and 70% on the 3.1L.

In other words, the 50 trim is a better turbo, for solid midrange power (I built the kit to COMPLEMENT the stock powerband of 1500-5000) but the 60 trim they include is a better choice, with no intercooler. Keep in mind, my system does include an intercooler in there, as well

I'd like to see a better pic of the actual exhaust routing, but using the 1/8" walled tubing I can see, was necessary. I do not see any brackets for the turbo, so the tube is holding it all on its own. What I DO, however, have a complaint about, is the exhaust manifolds built for this. The pipes are 90º directly into the header - I'd have MUCH rather seen 3 pipes smoothly merged before the turbo - that manifold will barely outflow stock.

That is a big problem I have with our cars - the exhaust and the intake are stupidly restrictive. Pacesetter headers are on their way (if Summit would just SHIP them already!) for the first turbocharged Pacesetter-header equipped 60º V6 for one lucky member of these boards (my way of making up for this last kit taking so long, LOL).

Will the BBS Designs setup work? YES. Is it optimal? NO.

Another thing - Techsmurf started on this, and I'm doing it right now, but the MAF, guys, IS a restriction on the turbo setup. I'm measuring 2" of vacuum when running 7psi on between the turbo and the MAF. Speed density conversions will take care of a LOT of problems with the MAF turbo - for one, our PROM tables do not allow (with the stock LV8 calibrations) ANY decent room for timing under boost. Also, the PROM needs to be reprogrammed (particularly the Max Airflow vs RPM table) when running turbocharged. My '88 Camaro would set the CES light under boost until I reprogrammed the PROM.

Anyone running 10psi+ will have to upgrade the fuel pump, too. The stock one is maxed out, with me running 22pph injectors + 10psi.

I also notice the BBS setup has no fuel management?? You can't run an FMU on our cars - the fuel pump dead heads @ 60psi, stock. A new fuel pump is a necessary upgrade with these setups.

Also, what does it do, about timing?

The car will run good, with the draw through MAF. Over 8psi, the stock system has shown to be a weakness - a big enough one, that I'm going speed density.

Rubber oil discharge lines = no. They will weaken, and turn into a soft POS. Been there, done that. I'd HIGHLY recommend stainless braided line!

What is done about tapping the oil pan? I pulled my pan, and used a 1/2" MIP lock nut on the back, to ensure the fitting did NOT come back out. The pan is only thick enough for about 1 decent thread. I HIGHLY recommend a locking ring on the back of the fitting.

The .63 a/r turbine section is a VERY good choice for a street motor. Responds very well!!

I, too, would love to see this on a dyno!

Overall, not bad. It's better than nothing, definitely - I do feel my kit is more 'complete' as it includes all necessary fuel/timing adjustments, and will run up to 15psi out of the box. But, this kit IS almost 1/2 the price, even if it is 1/2 the parts.


Also, no BOV?

I'd say @ 6psi, you should get a solid 175rwhp, as that sits (if it's a stock 2.8L)

The_Raven

Doward hit nme up on MSN, I lost the contact info for you.

I have some ideas for you.

TechSmurf

That looks suspiciously like my custom setup. I want royalties.

And as Doward said, that header design is worthless.

Persanity

Is it just me or is he asking for this to be installed on a car with a a/c compressor when the car in his pic has a a/c compressor on it, and dont you need the air pump?

GreyFox

i would need the air pump, and since my car is a DD no i woulnd't take out the ac compressor,.....doward did you have to take out yours?

Xophertony

that system is completly in front of and on the passanger side of the engine. it is inconcevable that it would interfear with the AIR injection system.

Xophertony

that bracket that that hose ends at is behind the ac compressor. if it will clear AC it will clear AIR. sorry boys, buy dowards kit or get a 3.8....

Doward

Sorry guys, that's the ONLY requirement with my setup - you must remove the AIR pump, so the downpipe can go in.

V8 Slayer

Is that still emissions legal?

AM91Camaro_RS

no, its not emissions legal. technically it would not be emissions legal even if the smog pump stayed in. because the car never was turbo charged from the factory.

lol, that looks a lot like any turbo setup would in one of the cars, techsmurf. there's not too many different ways of doing it. i've been keeping it a secret from most people but, i'm going turbo and that looks a lot like my setup, too.

Doward

HA! I can vouch, that looks NOTHING like your setup, Alan!!

AM91Camaro_RS

lol....well....the turbo's in about the same position!

GreyFox

my problem is i live in va and i wanna DD with a turbo

eric17422001

I am coming down that way Alan- can you spare a few minutes Sunday the 23rd? I'll be driving the RS for once.

BBSDesigns

Ok, I see that some of you may feel a bit uncomfortable when doing business overseas. We indeed are a very serious business. Our products are all made from very good quality materials and parts. Our list of customers include people from the US, some even can be found on these boards like; “TurboedTPI", “bourneash”, “rtkjadams”, “Steven89Iroc”, “Lock” and some even further away like “erictheviking” from the United Kindgdom and "Raven90IROC" from Australia, also from these boards. Some customers have even won contests like Keith Jenicek who ordered from us a custom twin turbo setup for his 1957 Nomad show car who drives it to all his shows.

The kit in discussion was designed to complement one of our product lines. We have designed all kinds of turbo systems for the Chevy V8 so we decided to make one for the Chevy V6 crowd. The kit itself is very simple and easy to install. We designed the kit from scratch using the Grand National turbo system as an example of how the kit could look like, any resemblance with any other kit is pure coincidence or the result of a logical place to put the turbo on such a spacious engine compartment. We would never compromise our company name or my name by copying any other manufacturer's design.

The kit shown in the pictures is our prototype one, mounted on the Project Camaro we have for developing and testing the kit. The car is currently being used as a daily driver for testing purposes, complete with it's stock engine, computer and injectors, just like we bought it from the dealer. The car was dynoed before anything was changed to it and it pumped a SAE 97 rwhp on a Dynojet with 125,000 miles on the odometer. After the dyno test we began developing the kit and since the kit installation about two weeks ago the car have been driven daily. The only thing we added after the kit installation, was a boost gauge, pyrometer gauge, a 10:1 FMU and retarded timming to avoid knoking.

The Camaro is running fine at 9# of boost except for a burned MAF which is causing some driveability problems. We are waiting for the new MAF to arrive this current week and as soon as we get it the car is going to the dyno again. We well know about the capability of the turbo's maximum horsepower will be determined by the engine, computer and related parts. The idea is to provide a kit which can be installed on any V6 and that brings up its maximum horsepower with very simple modifications. We all know that any normal turbocharger system, even on stock vehicles, can out run the factory setups of the computer, injectors and related parts. It's up to the kit's installer if he or she wants to get a decent horsepower output from a simple bolt on turbo kit with stock computer, injectors, etc or if he or she want's to achieve the maximum horsepower that the turbocharger included on the kit can bring and get all the gizmos necessary to achieve that goal.

The kit again is good quality, the turbo header is made of thick wall steel, the turbocharger is a brand new Master Power turbochager with 1 year limited warranty and every other part from the stainless steel braided oil supply hose and the oil spec/resistant return hose are made to last long. In resume We supply a kit which in overall includes good quality parts, which is very easy to install, has capability of high horsepower numbers and is cheap.

V8 Slayer

I cant pass emissions if I turbo my 3.1? Thats ghey... never knew that.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Casually inquire. some states/places aren't as **** as Cali.

AM91Camaro_RS

BBS, you might wanna do some research on the 3.1s. that kit won't bolt up and run on them. they are not MAF based, they are speed density...using a MAP sensor (you may know some or all of this; i'm just spelling it all out for those who read this and may not know it). the stock MAP sensor is no good past atmospheric pressure. it will have to be upgraded and then the stock computer also will not read that sensor under boost. if i am incorrect on any of this info someone (techsmurf, doward, other people who have dealt with tuning), please step in.

The_Raven

Sorry but that is false.

A MAP car, IMO is a better starting point for forced induction, for a few reasons, less restriction in the intake tract, and easier to adapt to forced induction.

Now dealing specifically with the statment made. True the 1 BAR MAP sensor will not read above atmospheric pressure (+2 PSI in most cases actually), but the ECM does not need to. All it needs to know is that load is >80% (for example) and go into open loop, adding extra fuel. There are no check valves needed, or any special installatins considerations needed. I've ran up to 9.5 PSI on a stock 1 BAR GM MAP sensor, and had no ill effects from it. The ECM will just see it as 100% load and go to the appropriate maps to decide on what to do, simple as that.
AN RRFPR is a good start for added fuel under boost and using something like an MSD 6BTM, will give you a hotter spark and also allow you to retard timing in propertion to boost.

Many people have turbocharged many vehicles this way and have had great success for decades.

Doward

QFT.


There's a lot of very good reasons I'm converting to speed density. Although, I just picked up an SU129 2 bar sensor for $55 @ local autozone.

The problem with the MAF, is that it only sees airflow - it can not see pressure.

Also, it's a PITA when you're on it real hard, then jump off (with a manual tranny) and the car wants to flood out. Not as big of a problem on a smaller turbo, but on my T61, it's a ROYAL PAIN.

SD = knowing when under boost, and when not.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The issue is the exhaust prior to the CAT being modified. That's where they get ya'.

That is why headers need a CARB EO, and a cat-back doesn't.

As Project: 85 2.8 bird mentioned, best to to ask around some emisisons test stations, see what they say.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

FMU adds fuel. Only issue being the Multecs, they don't like fuel pressures above 70psi or so (they lock shut). Kept below that with mild boost and it'll work out.

RBob.

The_Raven

Hmm, I know of an '89 Cav that is running a 3400 (Multec 1) with remote mount turbo and a 10:1 FMU that I'm pretty sure the FP goes beyond 70 PSI, I'll have to verify it.

The_Raven

Yep, it was just confirmed that the aforementioned car is running fuel pressures >70 PSIG, in fact they are > 100 PSIG, just below 120 PSIG. He has experianced NO issues with "injector lock".

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Uh, OK, what fuel pump is he using to get 120 PSI and enough volume of fuel for whatever HP that turbo'd engine is pushing?

BobR.

Doward

It'd almost HAVE to be a Walbro!

The_Raven

We have a wiener.

http://www.v6z24.com/registry/89jyturbo/

He's also a member here, but frequents the power adder forum.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yep, just may be. However, even with the good high pressure 255 l/hr Walbro pump (GSS340), it is marginal at 100 psi, let alone 120 psi. Check out the specs here:

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...l/fpspecs.html

At 13.5 volts the pump flows 11 gal/hr at 120 psi. That is good for 117 HP at a BSFC of .55. I think we just might be on the edge here, or a tad beyond.

Now, lets take a look at what the setup is, right from The_Raven's post: an '89 Cav with a rear mount turbo, and a 3400 engine. Gee, sounds a lot like 89JYturbo's car. Could it be? If you go to his web site you will find that engine has Bosch injectors, not Multecs.

www.khturbo.net

If you would like more information here is a great thread on his engine, turbo, and the whole nine yards:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=238864

What is it that is said about a grain of salt. . .

RBob.

The_Raven

Care to show me where it mentions ANY injector?

FYI Holley EFI pumps are made by Walbro.

Yes, it is 89jyturbo's car, as stated in my last reply.

I'm quite sure he is still running the Multec injectors.

AM91Camaro_RS

too bad i never said maf based was better for boost cause i know better than that! my car is SD and i'm happy it is!

The_Raven

I don't think I implied that you did say that one was better than the other, I was just stating my opinion on the matter.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

He doesn't have to say what injector is being used, the pictures tell the story. I see Bosch injectors, not Multecs.

Go to his web site and check it out.

RBob.

The_Raven

Hard to tell actually, they could be Bosch or Multec, either way, the myth is that either injector will lock up above 80 PSI or so, clearly they have not.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I NEVER said anything about Bosch injectors locking up. ONLY Multecs.

Here is the picture I am referring to:

http://www.khturbo.net/images/Z24ima...%20Harness.jpg

Definitely NOT Multec injectors. Easy to tell. If not then do some web searches. There are pictures of both injectors out there. And it is easy to tell the difference.

RBob., who actually put Bosch injectors in his 3rd gen.

The_Raven

I never put words in your mouth, don't say I did, I just said that the myth goes..... Meaning I've heard it for Multec and Bosch injectors, is not true, regardless of what is being used in that picture.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If you think so. . . Whatever

RBob.

LinuxGuy

iTrader: (1)

Anyhow...

BBS - any dyno numbers from that kit yet?