V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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Haha. Well, thanks for the advice! I may just do the intake plenum and oil pan red since I already have the paint. Or..put the paint aside and get black for the intake and oil pan..and do the block with the silver. You're right, I'd rather do something different..and shiny.
It's coming along. I get paid tomorrow and I'll be getting the heads. I've been looking into used ones..but I think I'll just get mine redone.($320)
The heads are the main piece I was waiting for.
then fuel injectors cleaned, water pump, oil pump, 4th gen plastic fuel tank, hoses, clamps, distributor, liquids/oils, sensors, exhaust etc. etc.
Thanks again for checking this out!
I wish it were going faster..and it should, now since today was my last day of highschool for the summer.
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After my parents talked to their friends the general idea is this:
I changed the oil the day before it blew.
When I changed it, only about 2quarts came out even though it was reading wayyyy over full before I drained it.
I took this as I must've just have been running low on oil.
They all think my oil pump went out causing a connecting rod to break.
It makes sense..the oil all over the front of my engine bay was black...but the oil I put in was new.
The level on the dipstick has nothing to do with the oil pump.. at all. For the dipstick to read over-full and only get out 2 quarts means either you don't know how to read a dipstick or you didn't get all the oil out.
I think a chunk of sludge or other debris dropped in with the oil and plugged the drain before it finished emptying... and then you put 4 more quarts in anyway, into an engine you already say was "waayyyy over full" (minus 2 qts, so probably still full) and reverse hydrolocked the motor. (piston encountered hydraulic resistance during downstroke, rod's small end or piston skirt failed (prolly piston skirt), rod freely spun around doing above seen damage to everything within its reach. Rod end cap probably didn't fail entirely until after the holes were punched in the block. Find the piston, see if the skirt failed.. find the wrist pin, see how f'd up it is from being used as a jackhammer.)
I wouldn't point this out this far into the game, but you did ask what you could do to prevent it from happening to the camaro... the dipstick, if read correctly, has very little chance of being wrong. It's a dead simple mechanical system consisting of one moving part taking a direct reading of the level of oil sitting in the oil pan. If it says you're full, you should get the appropriate amount of oil out of the pan. If you don't, don't assume it's empty, unless you assume half the volume of the oil pan is being displaced by something else, which isn't good either.
I appreciate the response. What you're saying makes sense..after all, how could a dipstick be wrong? (The car was on level ground when checked)
I'll be sure I don't make the same mistake with the camaro.
I plan on replacing the block with a junkyard one after the camaro's running. I'm confident I can still get a profit out of the car..and maybe put it into the camaro.
Thanks again.
Here's what I'm dealing with at the moment:
The only automotive machinist in my area said he'd check out the straightness of the heads for free.
Only, I can't get them off, still.
Here's what I think is stopping me:
I tried(unsuccessfully) to scrape out the rust..after soaking it over night with WD-40.
What you're looking at is the rear port of the driver's side head.
...rust around the bolt. (sorry for poor pic quality)
Thoughts?
And, again, I appreciate all comments and questions.
I appreciate the response. What you're saying makes sense..after all, how could a dipstick be wrong? (The car was on level ground when checked)
I'll be sure I don't make the same mistake with the camaro.
Thanks again.
Here's what I'm dealing with at the moment:
The only automotive machinist in my area said he'd check out the straightness of the heads for free.
Only, I can't get them off, still.
Here's what I think is stopping me:
I tried(unsuccessfully) to scrape out the rust..after soaking it over night with WD-40.
What you're looking at is the rear port of the driver's side head.
...rust around the bolt. (sorry for poor pic quality)
Thoughts?
And, again, I appreciate all comments and questions.
is that a frozen bolt? if so, im sorry that sux. i had the same prob on my 87 tpi 305, and had a hell of a time. try using some PB blaster on it, and if that dont work, heat it up with a torch (oxy-acetalene, propane is too slow and will heat the surrounding area) and then take some candle wax and melt it around the base of the bolt/stud, then take some vice grips or the like and try removing then.
if all the bolts are out and you think its just the rust holding it on, take a prybar/crow bar and put it in one of the intake ports and pry out and away from the engine. cast iron is pretty tuff stuff, and cylinder heads sure are stubborn pieaces. you can also get the heads off after you get the motor out, but thats up to you.
you can just pull the motor out with the heads attached. put a bolt in the rear of one head, and one in the front opposite head, and hook your lift chains to that (make sure the bolts are screwed in a decent amount.) disconnecting the tranny is actually easier than pulling it out all as one. you can take the 4 bolts out from behind the bellhousing or the bellhousing bolts themselves with some fanagling.
(this is all assuming you have a manual tranny, auto will be completely differnent and prolly a bit more difficult, cus you can only take the bellhousing bolts out and then remove the crossmember to drop the tranny.) if you take the 4 bolts out from behind the bellhousing that actually connect to the tranny case, then you can take the crossmember out and slide the tranny back and drop it down, carefully mind you!! after you do that, gettin the engine out is as easy as unbolting the motor mounts, attaching the lift, and pulling it out.
i wish i had some pics, but i dont at the moment. keep us updated!
The engine and tranny are already out.
I was planning on getting new heads..but I was considering taking these in to get checked. If they weren't warped, it'd save me ALOT of money.
That bolt doesn't hold the head to the block. That is a stud that is used to hold the LIM to the heads. If you have all 8 bolts (each head) out its just a matter of prying the heads off...like said earlier. I put the pry bar in the exhaust port and lifted up.
That bolt doesn't hold the head to the block. That is a stud that is used to hold the LIM to the heads. If you have all 8 bolts (each head) out its just a matter of prying the heads off...like said earlier. I put the pry bar in the exhaust port and lifted up.
get them checked, and if your motor was ok neway, then the heads should be ok as well. could get by with a cleaning and valve job. thats the cheapest way, but not always the best...
I was pretty dumb, I'll admit haha.
Yup..just took a good prying. I thought the bolt went through to the block (d'oh)
Here's a pic of the old block's cylinders for the hell of it. View is from the front. Rust is from the block being uncovered.
I'll be going to the shop with the heads monday, hopefully.
The machine shop wants $320 to do the heads. From what I can tell, he's just going to resurface them..?
I really don't like this place I'm having to deal with, but it's the only place in my area that does machine work on automobiles.
First time I call I ask if they could just check them out and tell me if they need work..make sure they're not warped and whatnot. They say yeah, sure! I ask how much they tell me nothin' just to look at them.
I bring them in and the guy tells me $100 just to check them.
I didn't feel like arguing and by chance they didn't need work at all, I'd have saved money by leaving them as is.
Now, he wants just $50 for the check-up and another $320 for the resurfacing.
I had called before and he told me $320 for a FULL job.
I've got the money at this point, but If I gave him the $370 I'd be left with $10 for two weeks and my family's not doing well in the money department as is.
I'm considering just buying new ones..though I'll have to do some research on that. I'm not sure if using the old valves and rocker arms on the new heads would be a good idea.
Man, 320 for doing a COMPLETE job on those heads is a rip-off! I had my heads for my 3.1 reworked this past winter and the shop charged me a whopping $120, tax and all! They cleaned the heads, decked the heads 0.010", checked the valve guides (they were OK, within spec), reground the valve seats, reground the valves, reseated the valves and springs, and put new stem seals and umbrella seals on there. If I would have needed new valve guides, that would have been anothe $60, so I would still have been under $200 for that.
I think that guy is jerking you around. Go somewhere else, even if you have to drive an hour to get there. It might save you a couple of hundred dollars.
__________________ F-bodies I own:
1992 Firebird 3.1 V6 (Used to have 75 HP nitrous shot)
1984 15th anniversary Trans Am (2 cars, future project to take both cars and make one good one)
1969 Firebird 400 4 speed. Actually has a 455 in it. Almost done with the complete restoration.
I tried every machine shop within a 20-mile radius and only 2 aren't industrial. The two being the one I tried and one other one which quoted me the same price.
I went back and he said due to all of the broken bolts(probably around 6, but I swear I only broke two of those six) it can go up to around $510.
I don't have the tools to put together a new pair of heads..so I might have to look into buying full heads. I think napa quoted me $424 but I forget if this was for a pair or for a single head.
Haha, Pontiacguy, even with shipping it'd be cheaper for me to send my heads to the machine shop you used.
The heads are what's holding me back, now. I've been saving my money so that when I buy the heads, I can go on to buying everything.
The phone I was using to take all of the pictures was stolen and sold so I'll be doing it by the book and labels I put.
Time to make a solid list of parts to buy, too.
I was going to say you should ship them somewhere else if the guy is jerking you around. Might save you some change and will probably get you better results. Sounds like the guy your dealing with is just trying to rip you off thinking you don't know any better.
It's looking like they're just plain expensive since he let me take the heads back for free, when he originally was going to charge $50 for checking them out.
But, yeah..I'm definitely thinking about shipping them out.
...just not sure how I'd go about doing that.
Thanks for the links!
Though..I've already ordered the heads two days ago through Autozone. They're going to come fully built and "ready for installation" for just $455. I get $100 of it back once the heads arrive and I give them the old ones. So..$355
Still..I suppose I would've saved $105 by going with that ebay page..I'll take it as a lesson.
I also ordered water pump($40 w/ lifetime warranty)
Full engine gasket set ($74)
Engine mounts($10/ea.)
Tranny mount($7)
I'm going to try and get to a junkyard when I can to get a plastic gas tank.
I've got some fuel injectors for a 3.4..thoguh I'm not sure of their condition, I'll read up a bit and see if there's a way I can test them. If I can and they *seem* okay I'll try them out as-is. If they don't work on the car, I'll send them to cruizin performance(I think I've got the name right).
I'm looking into the distributor tomorrow. The old one's rusted up.
I'm still in the process of making a solid parts-to-get list.
Getting the heads in should really kick the whole thing off.
So far, this thread has been spaced out..long..and full of unneccessary details(and I mean by me..you all have been TONS of help in and out of this thread).
To really make this a contribution, I'll be sure to write a separate tutorial in the end.
Later all.
p.s. Really..my biggest fear is that I get everything together and it doesn't work..but if it's done right, I shouldn't have to worry, right?
You won't have to worry as long as you find your repair manual!!
There are always things that go wrong with your first rebuild. Keep your manual handy. It's no big deal, and you'll get it all ironed out.
Now, you're gonna have to get another camera so that we can see what's going on!
Thanks for showing interest! I've got an actual camera but right now there's not much to take pictures of.
I just got back in from taking off the old timing chain cover(and with it the harmonic balancer and old water pump) and oilpan.
We substituted a harmonic balancer puller with a steering wheel puller just fine haha.
I don't know how much detail is wanted. Off of the top of my head,
the oilpan bolts were 10mm..
the water pump 2-3different sized star bits..
1/2" for the 4 harmonic balancer bolts and..I think 11/16" for the larger one but this could be off.
It's a bit hard to remember..Anyone doing this themselves wouldn't check here for sizes anyway..use what fits.(d'uh )
My heads and gasket set come in wednesday. Until then it'll just be cleaning parts and taking note of things to buy/things missing and/or broken.
I'm taking some shortcuts to get this thing done..but it's more or less:
Reusing the old exhaust pipe..it was okay..just old and rusted. Cheapest catback was around $180 I think(dynomax).
Reusing old bolts that can be cleaned up.
My "old" distributor cap and plug wires were new before the car became a swap project..but they're been sitting out.
I think right now all I can do is speculate. I won't know anything for sure until it comes time to actually do stuff like flush out the radiator and fuel lines.
Thanks again!
By the way..I decided to let my dad help me out a bit..haha, turns out he knows more than I thought about *my* car. Just gotta get him to do the same with me.
I'm not sure if this is a stupid question or not but here it goes:
While I was scraping off the old gasket from the timing chain cover, I noticed these two gouges on the inside where the water pump will be going.
..will this make a big difference. Big enough so that I need find another one?
get them checked, and if your motor was ok neway, then the heads should be ok as well. could get by with a cleaning and valve job. thats the cheapest way, but not always the best... 
