phate

iTrader: (1)

So i inherited a Firebird with the 2.8 engine from my dad the owner before him did a lot of very strange things to the car i am new to Firebirds and given the state the engine bay is in somewhat stalled on where to go, eventually i want to drop an ls1 in but in the mean time i would like to get the engine bay sorted out (would make swapping easier i think)

here is a link to the pic's i have of the engine bay:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

my questions are, whats missing? what are those wires on the passenger side, whats missing from the passenger side engine bay, is that where the battery is supposed to go? (i think it goes on the passenger side) could someone shoot me a pic of a 2.8 engine bay that is stock?

musclecar201

That things a mess man, good luck with it. Battery is on the passenger side or drivers side depending on year., best bet would be sort it out and buy some split wire loom or Convoluted tubing to get it an order, and a good cleaning, heres a general pic that may give you an idea. Looks like your missing your charcoal canister and a few other things.

phate

iTrader: (1)

the canister was tucked into what looks to be a big plastic box that i am guessing the heaters blower motor would be in, can see the heater core inside the car. lots of funk going on with the car but i'll get it sorted out. thank you for the photo.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Battery is on the proper side. The air intake, for the most part, is missing. That canister needs to go on the pass side battery tray, along with the air filter can. Also, the air temp sensor is supposed to be mounted in the air filter can, and I don't see it in the pic at all. The reason the heater core can be seen inside the car is that it's mounted there, which is how my carpet got ruined (core leaked some nasty crap all over). Looks like some idiot cut the heater box almost in half and just left the blower, which does absolutely nothing. Your coolant recovery and windshield washer bottles are missing (don't know what that one bottle is for but it's not the right one for either). Whomever did the air conditioning delete royally screwed the pooch there. Can't really tell, but it looks like the belt is on the water pump going the wrong way. How that works, I don't know... Seems like you should be overheating like mad.

:edit: I don't know if the system will let me repost this pic, but I'll try. This is what it would look like with a complete A/C system. This was taken with a crappy cam back about 6 years ago... Things have changed. And yes, my wiper motor is missing in this pic, which was taken when my 2.8 had blown up and I was waiting to find a replacement. If you want a newer pic, PM me.

phate

iTrader: (1)

thanks that actually clears up quite a bit for me, looking at the the two pictures has helped me allot, amazingly the car runs pretty well, it does throw a check engine from time to time (need to look into getting rid of the idiot lights) but given how hacked up everything the owner before my dad touched is, i am surprised it runs

heres a picture of where the evap was when i found it:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

alternator bracket (
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Missing aC?
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'll revise what I said before.

The evaporator half of the heater box is in 2 pieces to allow removal of the evaporator core. It looks like the guy took the top half of this evaporator case off, plugged the hole from the body and the blower inlet (scuse me, he left the body hole wide open which does NO good at all as the blower has to push air THROUGH that hole INTO the interior heater case), and stuck the evap can in the lower half of the case.

I don't know WTF he did with the alternator bracket, but I hope he didn't weld that pipe to the alternator case like it appears that he did...

What you should do is go to a yard or have someone take a pic of their factory belt routing sticker so you know how the belt goes. Then, take that whatever it is belt off. Do you see the top bolt in the power steering pump bracket? That needs to go in the hole next to it (on the right). Remove the 3 nuts on the back of the pump and the exhaust manifold, and the bolts on the front. Loosen the power steering pipe fitting at the back of the pump (do NOT remove), and possibly the hose clamp on the return hose. Pull the bracket and pump away from the engine and remove the rear bracket from the studs on the pump and exhaust. Realign the bolt hole for the bolt that goes through the pump bracket into the water pump housing, and loosely install this bolt. Align the right-hand upper bracket hole with the hole in the cylinder head and reinstall the upper bolt. Tighten the upper bolt, the water pump bolt (only 15 ft-lbs here), and the power steering lines. Install a Drive-Rite 815K6 or equivalent belt, with the part for the water pump running on the back (flat side) of the belt, with the loop on the alternator side of the water pump, around the crank pulley, and back to the alternator.

FireInMe17

well A/C is def missingggggg lol goodluck!

phate

iTrader: (1)

hah yep, on pay day i plan on trolling the for sale section for some of the missing stuff, and possibly a yard or two here, tax return time i think i may push up the engine exchange, this one does run and drive but just lots of stuff to work on on this car , suspension, engine bay more or less every form of maintenance you can find, sans rust repair (though i have not taken the carpet out to check the floors yet either :P)

FireInMe17

yeah man get that thing all nice and cleaned up and sorted out and youll have it looking nice in no time!

Schwinny

Hey nice car.

I have a pic of my engine with the new spark wires on it.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...g?t=1263831690

Not a very good pic. But its a 2.8 in running order.

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

lol, those wires look wayyyy to long, and you got some good rust going on the pulleys...

You got all the hoses for AC but no pump, that engine bay is seriously F'd up. I see alot of crimp connectors (bad) and it also looks like your missing both the washer and coolant bottle.
Just noticed, looks like the smog pump's gone too, not that that's a bad thing unless you have emissions testing.

Schwinny

Yeah, I have replaced the belt, Cleaned up all the pully's, and the correct wires have been installed.

Those Accel wires were actually the old ones off my dad's 305 Monte Carlo.

It dosent quite purr yet.

I have an ignition problem.

FireInMe17

Yeah....looks like youve got some cleaning to do.....




Thats what mine looks like.....

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Most factory 87's with the 700R4 did not have the AIR system. There was an add-on kit issued with a replacement PROM that was the result of a TSB for cold start problems (hesitation, sag, stumble, stalling when put in gear). The AIR was added because the replacement PROM that was issued was recalibrated for more fuel.

The easiest way to tell if the engine had the AIR system at any point is to look at the pass side exhaust manifold. If it's flat on top next to the EGR tube connection with no giant hole or pipe for the AIR check valve, your engine never had AIR, or someone replaced it with a non-AIR manifold (which I'd love to get my hands on).

Coffee_Roaster

I'll get you pics of my 87 rs 2.8 in a jiffy ~

Coffee_Roaster

As soon as my gf comes back wit my DROID....

Project 3.4 Camaro

Maverick I'd have to check to be sure but I'm pretty sure my exhaust manifold has no AIR system, and I'll be pulling it soon to install the new heads, I thought you were doing a hybrid build though? Anyways if you want a non AIR 2.8 exhaust manifold let me know.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'm still working on getting the parts together for the hybrid... Either way, I still need the manifold with which that damn AIR fitting won't keep coming loose about once a month or so. I might end up running the old manifolds temporarily if I can't find anything else to use with the 3100 heads as one of my 3100 manifolds (that I can't use regardless) broke right at the rear end...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

phate... Here's a couple new pics. The first one is a general idea of what yours should look like. Yes, I know it's dirty. It's winter. I can't help it, and I have to drive it. Also, I can't reinstall my stock air box at this time as there is a piece that goes between the black sensor you see in the pic and the stock air cleaner that I no longer have. The second is of the connection for the negative battery cable. Yes, that is the damper on the left and the lower radiator hose on the right. And, I doubt you can tell, but the engine was running in that pic.

phate

iTrader: (1)

very cool, i found some parts locally, over flow bottle, windshield bottle, possibly the alternator bracket, thank you for the pic especially of the battery ground, i am thinking i will find a suitable place to ground it out on the passenger side until i can get the proper mounting for the cable, oh and i noticed the plastic that holds the radiator is broken so i need to find that, or make something.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

There's also a small hole next to the battery that accepts a screw similar to the ones holding the dash and interior together. There will be a small wire running off of the negative battery post that needs to be connected here.

phate

iTrader: (1)

guessing that is to ground the body to the battery?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Just don't try to crank the engine over without having a proper connection for the negative cable with this guy attached. Unless you want to start a fire, of course .

phate

iTrader: (1)

my absolute favorite "mod" is the wire nut you can see it in this pic
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

just up the wheel well where the washer fluid bottle should be there is a wire nut with 2 red wires connected to the positive cable of the battery, haven't traced what they connect to yet had to pull the Fire bird out of the garage to replace an endlink on my jeep

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Let me know if you need more pics or even factory wire routing diagrams... My 87 service manual comes in too handy sometimes .

phate

iTrader: (1)

parts should start arriving i am hoping by this weekend nothing too major, also picked up a haynes manual not sure how reliable the wiring diagrams will be in it if it looks sketchy i will ask

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

For the most part, they're not. Sometimes the wire colors are right. For instance, if you look at the diagram for the 2.8 engine, you'll notice that it mentions a knock sensor down at the bottom, which would run to the ECM with a dark blue wire. The 2.8 doesn't have a knock sensor (not sure about the 89's) for the F-body. Also, the same goes for the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. Your car won't have provisions for the AIR select valve, either. Other than that, and the fact that a good deal is also missing (tail lights, anyone?), it should be okay for you for a while.

phate

iTrader: (1)

hah that has been my experiance good to know it will be the same with the fire bird some parts arrived today, both bottles head light switch and rear seat belts, the dumb things that were done run from one end to the other on this car but it will be fun to put together my 4 year old installed the windshield washer bottle need the little push clips that hold the over flow in place, right now its in its right spot but just being held by a screw driver i stuck in the hole just to see how it looked. still hunting an alternator bracket and since the current alternator is jb welded in place i am hoping i don't fubar it when i remove it, anyone know a better way to break jb weld than using a propane torch or dry ice and a hammer?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Lucky for you I also have a spare alternator bracket. Although I'm using it for my 3100 mockup at the moment.

The push pins (pop-it's as I call them) can be bought at AutoZone or one of those places, in the Help section. Also, see about getting some of the bigger ones for the bumper covers... You might need those.

Can you get a better pic of the alternator setup?

phate

iTrader: (1)

updated my picasa album with some pics, got a few good ones of the alt ect.
http://picasaweb.google.com/james.to...eat=directlink

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Okay, I'll take back what I said here... You're going to have to find some way to undo the jerry-rigging that whoever did to that alternator. How in the world could that possibly work?

If that belt set up works, use it. Although I don't see why the guy did it that way rather than getting the right belt and doing it right... Unless he didn't know about the upper bolt on the power steering pump. For all I know, that could BE an A/C delete belt with a different routing. Never thought of putting it on that way...

Ugh... All that loose wiring... (shakes head) And I thought mine was bad because my loom is going down the crapper. Yours was done on purpose!

As for the question you pose in your last pic, that bellows goes between the throttle body and the air box. That hole is supposed to have a pipe in it that runs to an elbow on the passenger's side valve cover (where there is probably a hole). I might have a pic... I'll try to email it to you. :edit: I have the pipe and the elbow, but I can't send you a pic (of it being installed) because the only pic I have just has a rubber hose in it (my pipe is damaged at current). I might be able to get a pic of what it looks like in the bellows.

And, may I say, WTF?! Who in their right mind replaced that battery and the cables with top-post parts? What a moron! All that work just to replace a battery?!

phate

iTrader: (1)

The alt dose work as do the other accessories but the belt squeals like hell for the first 10 seconds the car is on. i figure i will replace the battery a gell cell one i think, has anyone ever used an odyssey battery? i had one on my mr2 it was crazy light. One thing i noticed, the radiator has provisions for a trany cooler, do the autos use this? if they do add them lines to the list of things to find

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I hope you don't plan on running the engine for too long without the trans cooler lines. If you do, you'll run the risk of cooking the transmission. I'd better get a BIG box... I also have those lines sitting next to my trans under my work bench... Although I did have to bend one or both of them a little to get the trans out when I did my swap. Shouldn't be too bad.

Is there anything else missing on the car? Anything at all? You wouldn't believe the amount of spare parts I have that nobody seems to want...

:edit: Wait a minute, how could that car possibly MOVE without puking ATF all over the underside of your car? The fittings for the transmission lines are on TOP of the transmission!

phate

iTrader: (1)

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
in that pick there are two metal lines that go to the front of the car but not to the radiator, ill crawl under it when i get home and see what there hooked too

missing parts: Dome light, air filter stuff, the little plastic thing that goes over the top of the radiator, miscelanious things that hold screws in place, plastic that should be in the wheel well, probably some electrical connectors for the loose wires.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Can't help you with some of those things. My old dome light has broken reflectors for the map/reading lights, I'm using my upper radiator mount at the moment, and a lot of those screw things are also missing on mine. My car WAS missing the entire front air dam, except the one little scrap of the part that bolts under the radiator.

Which fender plastic do you need? I have a spare for the driver's side.

I just had a thought. For the trans cooler lines, check to see if there is an auxillary oil cooler in front of the radiator, where the condenser would go. If your car isn't shooting ATF all over the place, those 2 lines HAVE to be hooked to SOMETHING.

phate

iTrader: (1)

both fenders have the plastic gone, the little screw things i figure i will get an assortment set from autozone ect dome light i will probably rig one i had from an mr2 to work (beets the dangleing connector) behind my liscence plate there is a hole in the bumper id bet i find a trans mission cooler behind that (not at home so i cant go look yet)

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check out the Classifieds section... There's a number of cars being parted out.

phate

iTrader: (1)

oh need a pic of where the charcoal canister sets. mine is just sort of floping about.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Does the passenger's side battery tray have a raised platform still bolted to it? If it does, it goes there, in the hole that has 2 screw holes, one on either side. There will also be a mount for a long bolt that holds the air cleaner can together.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Here's some pics... First is the bracket I mentioned before, second are the trans cooler lines, the longer one being the stretched out pressure line, and the last is parts... For the bracket, the canister goes into the pocket at the top of my pic, and the air cleaner can at the bottom, with the notch lining up with a locator at the bottom of the can. The air temp sensor faces the headlight.

phate

iTrader: (1)

lines do run to a small aux cooler the metal lines stop at the front bulkhead and are continued on by rubber lines, neither battery tray has that bracket in it, but at least now i can see where it goes, mine appears to have some hoses on it that are too short to reach luckely i have some of that type of line in the garage, in the morning i am putting the car up in the air a little so i can crawl under and look around it seems to me those tranny lines should be routed differently the way they set right now if i i were to pull to far into a parking spot i think they would get mashed.

86ttopbird

that hole in the induction pipe blocked by the bolt, there should be a small metal tube that runs into a rubber elbow in the passenger side valve cover. I believe its part of the PCV system. The metal hard lines that run under the upper intake are your fuel lines. They should be attached at one end to rubber lines. The wires running towards the passenger side go to your canister purge solenoid, and there should be a bank of relays on the passenger side fender near the rad support. I can take pics of mine if it will help you out.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

What do you plan on doing about the trans cooler? If you want replacement lines, I'm not sure how I could get them there as I don't think I could find a decent box. Also, if you wanted to replace them, you would have to practically drop the trans out to get at the fittings (I couldn't get at my lines until my trans was removed from the engine).

Also, when I pack the box, I just might throw in my old battery cable(s). It's just the positive, but there is a second cable that goes with it to get juice to the junction block (so your ECM has power!) from the alternator post (cut the wrong wire out when I upgraded my alternator to battery cable ).

phate

iTrader: (1)

been sick the last day so i havent done much,
i will most likely leave the trans cooler alone, well re route the hoses so there not in a stupid place and mount the cooler with something other than zip ties...imagine if that fell off and got drug behind the car on the freeway...BAH! where do the stock lines run, do they come off the top of the tranny and follow the frame or do they actualy come out like my car is now?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Basically, they come out of the top of the trans and follow the negative bat cable down the pass side frame rail until they go into the radiator on the passenger's side.

phate

iTrader: (1)

havent crawled under the car yet instead i decided to figure out what the yellow wire nut in this photo was doing http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

so first i did some searching that nut is on the black wire of the Headlight Control Module and goes back to a switch in the cab to flip the head lights up and down respectively, removed the wire nut attached both ends of the black cable that were cut and hey presto, the headlights go up and down with just the factory switch. in my search i also discovered where the relay control is supposed to go and of course the bolts for it are missing so i will have to fake that up not sure why that was even done. one wire nut down havent counted how many to go

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Sounds to me like some shady backyard mechanic trying to fix things that weren't broken in the first place... I feel for you, man. Hopefully it will mostly be time that gets your Bird back on the road, not money.

phate

iTrader: (1)

no doubt,i may need a diagram of how that circuit is supposed to be, there is a red wire on it that i am thinking should not be running the way it is. from what i am reading the guy may have been trying to bypass the relay inside the box but sofar mine works good, if it acts up ill take it apart and clean it up and re tin the joints. this weekend i want to trace the red wires with the blue wire nut to see where they go. also i could use a diagram of the radio harness looks to be some foul play there too.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

These are for an 86, but they're the same, and they have the added benefit of being in full color:

http://92b4crs.tripod.com/86wiring/86wiringindex.html

Might want to bookmark or put this in favorites... From the looks of that clustermuck, you're going to need it a lot.

phate

iTrader: (1)

may have to download all of them and send them to the binder at work.....