Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

anyone here make or sell EGR plates? hows the best way to go about removing all the EGR crap? and a/c? i hav to get a a/c delete pulley dont i? any help would b great thanks!

oh its also a 90 3.1 t top rs


my plan is to start with EGR and a/c delete, then when im done my valve covers and new intakes (re finishing polishing ect) and installing them next is on to cam, then eventually over time a 3.4 is gna go in


but i wana start with this, just new to RWD gm v6s, not so much to the FWD as i hav n 89 z24 with a 2.8 mpfi that i built

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

anyone???

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check your state's emission laws before you do anything. You may end up leaving the EGR in place but disabling it with a block-off plate or 2 to pass visual inspection (like me ). It's not hard to make one, just get a small amount of, say, heater or dryer duct, flatten it out, trace the gasket on it, and cut out the plate. Install with RTV to seal it.

2. You DO NOT need an A/C delete pulley. The upper part of the power steering pump, where it bolts to the cylinder head and the A/C compressor bracket bolts to it, has 2 holes next to each other. If you take the compressor off, you'll notice the bolt is in the left hole (going into the head, not coming through the A/C compressor bracket first). Remove the rear bracket from the pump, loosen the bolt on the water pump, and put the upper bolt in the second hole, which raises the P/S pump slightly, just enough to align the belt properly. Then you go to the parts store and order a non-A/C belt (if you're deleting the AIR pump as well, the belt P/N interchanges with 815K6).

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

yea i dont need to pass visual inspection here, PA is strict but we have our ways around it all muhaha and i dont plan on living here much longer anyway plus i JUST had an inspection so im good till 2012

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

will an EGR DELETE AND AIR DELETE throw a trouble code tho?? the ses light is anoying and FINALY i fixed everything and it stays off

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

and wait rtv for egr?? hmm,,,, what about the plate for the exhaust manifold im pretty srue it would kill RTV lol considering how hot it gets

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

lik i wana take everything off not just make it non-functional, tryna clean up the engine bay ya kno?

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Deleting the AIR will not set a code, but deleting the EGR will set a code as soon as youre at operating temp. ive been staring at the light for 6 yrs.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

ik its easy to pop out teh SES light bulb outa teh clsuter, i actually just put the cluster in, has onyone done the EGR delete?

and sorry i suck at reading, can anyone break it down a lil simpler then maverick hl1 did? im a mechanic so doing it isnt a problem, just he threw me off lol, i was expecting to have to buy a/c and air delete pulleys

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Ok, here's simpler...

For the A/C compressor delete:
Take off the A/C compressor and brackets AFTER making sure the A/C system has been discharged. Set it aside.
Take off the rear bracket from the power steering pump.
Remove the upper bolt from the power steering pump bracket and loosen the bolt on the water pump that goes through the PS pump bracket.
Swing the PS pump towards the engine until the hole next to where the big bolt came out of the top of the bracket lines up with the hole in the cylinder head. Put the bolt back in. Tighten the bolt on the water pump.
Go out and buy an 815K6 drive belt and install the same as the 915K6 belt was removed with the exception of the A/C compressor which is no longer in place.

For the EGR valve:
Remove the valve components from the ignition coil bracket and the valve tube assembly from the intake plenum and pass side exhaust manifold.
Get a piece of sheet metal from somewhere and trace around the bottom of the EGR to exhaust manifold tube and the end of the tube that connects to the intake. Cut these shapes out using any means necessary, be it shears or whatever.
Drill holes in the plates for the bolts.
Put plates in between the EGR to exhaust tube and the exhaust manifold and the intake to the corrugated tube. Seal these with RTV silicone. Put bolts back in.
Deal with code 32 and SES light on after about 5 minutes of driving at speed when engine is hot.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

I did the EGR delete. I took off what was on the intake and exhaust manifolds, found some thinner pieces of metal, traced the parts that touch the manifold out onto the metal. Then i cut it out, filed the edges down, got new gaskets and bolted them on.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

nice, and ill just pull the SES light bulb

ALSO how will it run with the ac air n egr delete? any difference?

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

you wont really notice much of a difference really. if the A/C is off, its almost no drag on the engine anyway. I didnt notice any difference really when i ditched my AIR and EGR. about the only advantage to doing it is to simplify things, get crap out of the way.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

ok so besides gettin the stupid crap outa the way, which is my whole reason of doing this, will it be worse or better for gas milage? curios cuz i drive it 2 hours a day highway driving

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Gas mileage is actually going to be hurt a bit due to the fact that there will no longer be any exhaust gases in the cylinders at speed. Which means more fuel and air is needed to fill the cylinders, other than the fact that the EGR flow is actually slightly rich, so the mixture will need more fuel to even things out.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

ouch, so what the hell is the benifit of all this besides gettin the crap outa the way??

and also i plan on buying headers later this year since i didnt wen i did exhaust, and ill b swaping in a 3.4 as well (using 3.1 intakes and what not) so id have to do this delete anyway corect?

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

would u guys sugest just doing the AIR and AC delete and leaving the EGR there? or what the hell get rid of it too?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The benefit of getting rid of the parts is that there are less expensive parts to fail later and reducing front end weight. Another plus is that you will only need to clean the IAC one more time if you delete the EGR, because it's the exhaust gases in the intake that get it full of crud, just like the rest of the top end. Less parts to replace, less maintenance, bottom line.

RSFreak

I removed my AIR and EGR (no A/C from the factory) just for more room under the hood and to clean up the look of the engine in general. I didn't notice any performance benefit.

project89

iTrader: (1)

best way to block it off is to take the upper manifold to a shop and have them weld the egr hole closed,then take a file and file down the weld so its flat again and reinstall the manifold,u can then bolt the tube back to the intake and leave the egr inplace, doing it this way will pass visual inspection, and will not set an ses light.

which btw even if u pull the bulb out when the car is inspected if they check the ecm by pluging in the scanner it will tell them the bulb is supposed to be on and u will fail

some places that dont do emissions testing still check for ses light and fail u if its on

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

im in PA and any car older the 96 just gets emisions testing at the tail pipe they dont even check the SES light or plug it in, BUT lik i said, i have conectoins and ways around gettin inspected, I do NOT care if it passes, id lik it to pass just for the sake of knowing the car runs the way it shuld, dont wana lose anything lol i wana benifit lol

project89

iTrader: (1)

then make urself some blockoff plates, u only need to put a plate on the ex manifold or the intake connection u dont need both. leave the egr on the car so it does not set an ses light.once the ses light comes on the computer goes into limp home mode which makes the car run rich and uses a limited amount of ignition advance.

what this means is u will burn more fuel and be down on power with the ses light on

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

my whole point on deleting the EGR is to remove the sh*t from under the hood for more room and cleaning up givin it better looks, as in its all gta come off for the 3.4 and headers anyway, headers dont have provisions for EGR valves lmao, is ther anyway to pull the EGR valve off and block both ex mani and intake and set it up outa teh way but keep it pluged it? will it set a code if its not bolted to anything but pluged in??



ALSO AS for the AC AND A.I.R DELETE! yall do realize its a 90 and im running a serp belt not v belts right? leme get u some engine pics, its all stock cept new injectors

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

my tensrioner is at teh top by my alternator, my ac comp is on the drivers side above the power steering pump, smog pump is under the alt. im tryna figure out how the belt is gona route with teh crap missing???


is this how it should be routed???? foudn this pic on google NOT MY ENGINE

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Like project89 said, just make your own. Do like I did, and use the gasket from both sides to make your template on some sheetmetal (you'll want thicker sheetmetal on the exhaust side), drill your holes, then cut them out....

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

corect me if im wrong but theres very little clearance between the water pump and the belt going from the ps pump to the tensioner,, bout 1/8th inch of clearance,,,,thatsss uuhhh not enuf is it...

i drive it every day soo yeaa

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

im gona do that, but.. where did u mount your coil???

and gas milage is n issue since its a dailly

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

and also street lethal, i have a bypass valve? and crap down by the smog pump, i wana get rid of all that crap to. i c u have a diff setup, any help along that route as well woudl b great

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

this is what i have now, and so far what iv read, if i use n 82.5" belt i can just bypass the compressor and smog pump corect??

as for the compressor and condensor and line removal i got all that, now im onto the bypass valve and all that crap on the pass side of the engine, since no a/c i dont need it right??

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Pull the smog pump off entirely, and cut the stock belt open. Run it around the way you want it by hand, then when you have it the way that you want it, cut the excess off, tape it up, and bring it to an auto parts store and have someone find a match for it. This is where and how I cut mine, how much I cut off, and the finished product....

project89

iTrader: (1)

that way spins the wp backwards
run the belt like normal except u go from the ps pump to the alt
and from the alt down to the crank

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It doesn't spin it backwards (clockwise) that way, it's just routed differently. The correct and secure way is to wrap it around the waterpump like this, but the waterpump still spins counter clockwise either way you do it, which is the correct way because it is the serpentine setup. This way is just the more secure way to do it...;

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

And that's the way GM did it... I've seen a factory A/C delete car this way...

And the pic under the cut belt above shows the bolts in the PS pump bracket I was talking about... Just above the middle curve in the upper radiator hose is the bolt in the A/C position... Put the bolt in the hole next to this position to allow for the A/C delete with the proper 81.5" belt.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

yea i see teh 2 holes in the braket, is it as simple as just losing one on the water pump, takin the other out, and moving it to the next hole?????

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

I pulled my AIR pump and have the belt routed the exact same way. I tried to get the part number off it, but its worn off. the way i measured for a belt was i took a piece of string, routed it that way, measured it then took off an inch for belt tension. not positive but i thought the belt size for a car without A/C and without AIR was in the 72 inch range. it make take a couple of tries, but hey, the parts stores take returns. so maybe just buy a couple right around that size and return the ones that dont fit snug.

EDIT: I just checked napa's site and it shows an 825 part number, so it looks like it would be an 82.5 inch belt.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

yea i see teh 2 holes in the braket, is it as simple as just losing one on the water pump, takin the other out, and moving it to the next hole?????

Johnnygeek

A computer controlled engine (ECM) depends on a O2 sensor that monitors the exhaust gasses to create the best fuel ratio for performance and economy.
Everything that the ECM controls that is attached to the combustion gasses affects those readings.
The ECM expects this change and will make adjustments in air/fuel ratio to compensate for the expected effects of the part when the ECM activates it.
basicly only if you can make them non-functional in the ECM would performance and economy be better

is there any mod where simply removing something would make power?
I would like to see if a new coded chip would boost power after removing them?

JohnnyCamaro91

This is exactly how I have mine routed, still have the pumps attached too, need to find a free day to pull em off haha

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i made my own block off plates out of aluminum

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

JohnnyCamaro91

also why do you have to move the power steering pump?? I didn't touch mine and the belt routed just fine

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Keeping the EGR would be the best way to keep performance of an engine at it's best.

The EGR is not just an emissions device, it also helps to combat detonation at low and partial throttle loads. This helps increase milage, by reducing the amount of fuel needed to combat that detonation.

Cadaver Puncher

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know the belt routing for the air delete if I wanted to keep the ac?

92camarorv6

what that guy sed ^

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Bump for an old (but good thread)

If I'm getting headers, do I have to do an EGR delete? I don't see any way on the picture of the headers to put the EGR tube that runs down to them

I'm not worried about inspection, I ma past the point of having to do that. If it becomes an issue, I'll just register my car as an antique and not even have to get stickers for it at all

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Header primary for #1 cylinder has the EGR attachment point. Had to cut and plug mine since the 3100 system moves the transfer tube to cyl #2. However, kiss any and all AIR crap you have goodbye since there isn't any connection for that.

Can't post duplicate pics but I have a pic of this floating around...

manolis1969

Dakiddsoicey3

Hey I'm new to this but anyways I purchased a 92 Pontiac firebird 3.1 v6 and it doesn't have a egr valve hooked up seems like the last owner glued some up & blocked it but it has a connector to it but no egr valve ...& car is not idling correct btw my plug wires are sparking ...any help

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Assuming you don't have a vacuum leak around the block off plate, there will be no idle effect from EGR (or lack of), since it only operates at cruising speeds. What do you mean by "not idling correctly"? Too high, low, erratic, misfire? We need more details. Does it do it all the time, only when hot/cold, etc?

Dakiddsoicey3

LIKE THERE IS NOTHING THERE NO EGR VALVE & RPm's move slightly & when at operating temperature it loses power & picks back up ...I was thinking why is this set up like this & would this cause problems with spark wires arc & what should I do