92camarorv6

ok i would love to do a roost bolwer on my 3.4 v6 in my camaro bt at the same time do a 5.7 tpi motor i have a 1978 vett 350 block you all say its a big pan to swap in a tpi and v8 and i can see that it will be some what this is my daly driver so i dont want to make the car look or run like **** and it has to last unlike ford lol jk so is there any hope of seting up a roost blower were do u start pushing the motors limmits and whats the turbo set ups like now days and has any one passed the 12s mark and wasta the word on thow pizza box intakes i t seems like alot of the guys that were making the v go fast arnt posting any thing new or any thing at all and i would like the car to run 12s and i would be happy with the a/c on lol tahnks for any input

Ray the Rat

iTrader: (1)

I think you might mean a Roots-type supercharger:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_type_supercharger

I'm new to this board although I've been workin on Chevys for a long time. A supercharger or blower requires power from the engine to compress the air-fuel mixture (if it's a draw-through type) and force it into the cylinders. Doesn't matter whether it's a Roots or centrifugal or any other type, all blowers function effectively the same...powered in one way or another from the crankshaft.

Turbochargers don't require mechanical energy to provide boost. They use the exhaust gas to spin one part of a twin-turbine system; the other side is used to compress the air or air-fuel mixture.

The main difference between the two is immediacy. With a blower, the boost is there all the time: the faster the crank turns the more mixture is stuffed into the intake. With a turbo, there can be lag time as the exhaust has to spin up the impeller to boost the intake charge. It's also variable in its boost. At light throttle, you don't always have a lotta boost. At WFO, max boost is usually attained...depending on how much exhaust is flowing through it.

Now. I dunno what blowers or turbo setups are available for 60V6s. I'm content to run mine like an economy car. I already have a race car for the salt flats. I spose I better finish it before September. But a quick google search for 3.4 V6 Turbo showed a lotta results; so did 3.4 V6 blower. There are some kits on the market but they're not cheap. $3k seems to be the ballpark figure for a turnkey kit. Check it out. Your results may vary.

Ohh...I should mention that the first sticky post in this section covers installing a turbo:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/3...ing-turbo.html

RtR
http://www.chevyasylum.com

Killert

iTrader: (9)

What your typing makes little sense. You want a daily driver that runs 12's and have A/C, LSX motor would be the way to go.

92camarorv6

haha i would love a lsx but 6500+ is way to mush money for me i have a 78 vett block would love to do a tpi motor but i see it can be a pan what and aout the sc i like roots cue of the sound thay make nothing beats it i know about cars i have a 10s toyota supra.

Project 3.4 Camaro

If you're starting from scratch and going right from 12s, its going to be about the same effort either route, so really a preference matter, personally, I plan to try to break into the 10s with twin m90s if and or when I ever have the money available, and the bigger priorities worked out. Currently there is a 3.4 turbo into the 12s, not sure if there's any other cars in them or not, I suppose pilsbry could be. Oh and read my sticky.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

i think it could be.... if it wasnt so freaking hot and i had some tires i would probably be out tuning it. i do miss it but i got a new truck ive been trying to get the way i want it.

for the OP i cant believe anyone can understand what your typing, youve been on here for awhile would you please work on your typing and communicating skills.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything but an English teacher would have a field day, lol.

Ray the Rat

iTrader: (1)

Well, I wasn't gonna say anything, since I'm the FNG here, but spelling, grammar, capitalization and punctuation can make something that's totally incomprehensible into a meaningful statement or question.

No, I'm not an English teacher, although I have mentored students in that subject and others. Right now I'm just an old fart with a Camaro that's sick, but getting better.

A suggestion for spelling. Firefox browser has a great spellchecker built into it. I use it all the time. If I see something underlined in red, I know I need to look into it. It really helps.

RtR
http://www.chevyasylum.com

project89

iTrader: (1)

my car, grapes car ,pilsbury car well pilsburys car should go in the 12's hell deff need some sticky tires though


and 2 m90's on a v6???????? u only need 1 theres 305's with a single m90 going into the 11's

Project 3.4 Camaro

I'm shooting for 20 psi, correct me if I'm wrong here, but 1 m90 tops out at 10-12. Also, most of the time I would probably run off of one, and then connect the other up for when I wanted it(maybe have 2 different belts or something, or figure out some sort of clutch or something.

92camarorv6

lol Project 3.4 Camaro thats kinda mad max dont you think. Sorry for all the bad grammer i just try to get it posted cuse i have 56k. as for the motor cant beat the sound of a v8 in camaro but i dont want to hack the car up the 3.4 that i put in is good i have over reved that thing so maytimes 7k+ lol only smoke when it sets for 2 or 3 days and thats at start up just some oil on #2.
what can you do buy just slaping a turbo on to it 14s or 13s ? and my tranny is new to thats why i kinda dont wat to rip all this new stuff out

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah it is, but it makes sense imo, 20 psi would just be too much for daily driving I think, and I actually just had an idea that might work for a type of clutch, use an extra long belt and some sort of movable tensioner to pull the belt into the SC pulley or let it out and away from it maybe, using a dedicated belt for the one SC, ie. the accessories wouldn't be affected, I'm sure some sort of setup could certainly be worked out, I'm surprised no one has done it before tbh, or at least AFAIK no one has. As for just throwing a turbo at the otherwise stock motor, you should be able to reach 14s, maybe 13s.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

No one that I know of has done that, because there's no reason to.

If you want more boost, swap on a smaller pulley, and/or larger SC.

When driving around, you can easily stay low on boost, without complicating things.

I still prefer turbo over SC.

Fallen2603

Just because the boost number is larger, does not necessarily mean it is a GOOD thing. The M90 supercharger has done plenty of great things on the 3800 V6's with smaller pulley's. If you're dying to go supercharger, use a smaller pulley, better injectors, and have a good manifold fabbed up. Preferably, not something like I've seen someone else doing on this board...

Project 3.4 Camaro

more boost=more power, provided the engine is setup right. And I don't have any idea what route I will wind up going at this time, all depends on whats around when I have the money to spend and how much I have to spend, for example there is a 305 I'm tempted to snag up for $50 that needs new rings or stem seals, only reason I haven't is because I have nowhere to store it and no vehicle to pick it up with atm.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

False.

More boost = more restriction.

There is a point of diminishing gains, where above a certain amount of boost, the flow increase is not proportionally gained, it's just more hot air, without making much more power, if at all.

Fallen2603

LOL! OMFG! Epically false...

Project 3.4 Camaro

Key words, provided the engine is setup right, yes I'm aware that at a certain point boost doesn't give more power, but is there even a way to find that point short of trial and error? And I'm only guessing, but I think 20 psi would be in the realm where it was still a gain and not a loss for a good enough flowing 3.4 hybrid.

Project 3.4 Camaro

If you're going to rudely imply someone is an idiot, maybe you should bother to read what they actually said first

Fallen2603

WOW...so defensive. And, yes, I can read, thank you.

I am curious as to how you're going to have this "engine set up right". First, I'm not even sure your block will hold up to that much power and boost without cracking down the lifter-valley. Second, I can't see how you're going to be able to cool the compressed-air charge enough to not squeeze tons of hot air into that engine. And, third, I can't see how you're going to supply enough fuel for the mix unless you go with double the number of injectors, methanol injection, or race gas.

You can reach 20psi out of a single M90 supercharger with the right size pulley.

Your twin-supercharger idea, while intriguing, I'm fairly certain will simply blow your engine.

But, hey, do whatever gets your rocks off.

Project 3.4 Camaro

You were un-necessarily rude, whether I am wrong or not. I'm aware of the lifter valley being a weakness, but that is more of a high rpm problem than a power problem per say. As for cooling if I actually go through with it I would have dual 3 core intercoolers, and would be using e85 for fuel due to the high octane and availability, yes it will take large injectors something on the order of 80 or 90 #/hr if memory serves, and all the information I've seen implies the m90 can only get up to 10-12 psi, but then I don't know a way to calculate how much a different pulley would alter that, though I would think to alter it enough to get 20 psi out of it, that the SC would have to spin faster than it is built to.

Fallen2603

LOL! I wouldn't even consider what I said mildly rude. I'm an *******, and I see no reason to change.

I've heard the lifter-valley debate go both ways. Either way, it is a problem area with the 2.8/3.X engine blocks.

Where will you put the intercoolers in the system? After the air is compressed and before the throttle-body?

An single M90, with a 3.6" pulley, produced almost 23psi of boost on an Ecotec inline-4 in a Hot Rod project. You can get pulley's all the way down to 2.55" from ZZP, and you can spin those superchargers pretty fast without too many worries.

92camarorv6

o hold on thay made a twin sc in the 80s it was a magma charger model 220 so the 3.4 caro guy has a point and im only 20 so im not old ,and im trying to figer out what would be bast for me i love turbos but i want to run with cobras new camaro ss and older ls1 cas and things like that but not be atuped cuse its a dd

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

Had to read that last post 3 to 4 times to understand what was said. I know I am not the spelling police, but its hard to understand what your saying, and what your trying to spell.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes there have been dual SC set-ups, many of them actually, but in everycase they have been done for bragging rights to say it was done, not actual performance.

Hell, might as well add twin turbo and nitrous in there...





There are ways to find the point of diminishing returns, at least as far as flow is concerned, and that would be by using a flow bench. Use presurized air going through the intake, heads, mock cylinders and exhaust, to find the point where more pressure doesn't equal a large increase in flow. I bet it would be lower than you think.

Using a single proper sized charger, with a proper pulley and set-up will yeaild better results than two poor matched chargers in the same set-up.

With more chargers, there is more weight, there is more rotating mass, meaning more parasitic horepower loss/use.

There's no need to clutch a second charger, ever, it will just cause huge problems, especially when the charger that is working blows the pressurized air out through not driven charger, which means you'd need some sort of flapper to seal it up when not being engaged, which will cause transitional problems, etc, etc.

As I said before more boost = more restriction.

The measurment of boost by those fancy little boost gauges mounted in the A-pillars and in dashes really only measures restriction of the engine to air flow. In a perfect world, a turbo or supercharger wouldn't create boost, or pressure, it would only increase flow, but it doesn't work that way. We use boost pressure, or more accurately intake manifold pressure to give a reference in how hard an engine is working, but it's really only relative to that engine.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I would prefer to use one SC, just didn't think the m90 was capable of 20 psi of boost, I want 500-600hp at the end of all my mods, granted like I said idk when and or what route I will go in the end, but that is my power goal.

Fallen2603

First, please, for the love of all that is unholy, write so people can understand what is being said 92camarorv6!

I agree with everything that Six_Shooter said up there. My compliments, sir.

Given the various restrictions of a supercharged 3.4/3400 hybrid, I'm sure the M90 supercharger will experience enough restriction to produce 20psi of pressure.

Will the M90 flow enough air into your engine to produce 500-600HP? That is the question you need to ask. I'm fairly sure it can, but I don't know for certain. If the answer to this question is "yes", then, THEORETICALLY, it is possible.

92camarorv6

ok i got som new ?s . one what year heads were h.o heads.2 whats thecost of the turbo headers.3 will sbc 1.6 rockers fit i think yeas.

Project 3.4 Camaro

turbo headers probably cost $100-500 depending on a lot of things, H.O heads, I don't recall, I think that was an option during the carb years of the 2.8, so I want to say 82-84 or in that range, but the only difference is very slightly larger valves I believe, and all the MPFI heads have the larger valves by default. As for the SBC rockers, I think I remember hearing something about them being too wide, but I really don't know, why do you want to use them anyways? Unless you get them free, or dirt cheap I don't see the point in going to the extra trouble of making them work.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The "H.O." heads were offered from '82 or '83 to '85. They were the "performance head" of the 2.8 for those years, found in the Citation X-11 and similar performance optioned FWD 660 equipped cars.

All '86+ heads are the same as the H.O. heads from the earlier years, valve sizes, port flow etc. So if you were thinking you'd gain anything by finding the H.O. heads you won't be.

Cost of turbo headers could be anything, depends on what the person building them wants to charge you.

Yes, the SBC rockers can be used, but they are not a direct bolt on. It also depends on which rockers they are, that will determine what needs to be done to make them work.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

would it not be easier to just buy 1.6 rockers for a 2.8/3.1? unless you just happen to have free SBC rockers, even then may still be easier to just buy what you need.

Fallen2603

Why jury-rig something like that when you can have these?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1414-12/

Even if someone paid me to take their SBC 1.6 rocker arms, I wouldn't try jury-rigging them to work if I could have the RIGHT rocker arms for $125...

project89

iTrader: (1)

umm guys the only difference between a sbc and the v6 rocker arm is the rocker pivot ball. v6 has a 10mm hole for the stud and the sbc has a 3/8's.
the width and lenght of the rocker is identical.i can go outside and pull the rockers off my 350 and put them on my v6 and they are the same, u just have to use a v6 rocker pivot ball on the v6 and the standard pivot ball on the sbc

project89

iTrader: (1)

just reuse the stock pivot ***** with any of these or go to the parts store and get a new set of pivots for about 12 bucks

http://cgi.ebay.com/SBC-ROLLER-ROCKE...item2312afbf89

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-SBC-Chevy-St...item2eb6620cb7

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Which is why it depends on WHICH rockers he to wants to use. The stamped rockers require the V6 rocker ball, where as the Cast rockers such as the Crane Gold Race Rockers require the body to machined narrower to clear the rocker next to it.

Other rockers might require different modifications.

Usually 1.6 rockers are not stamped rockers though, even though they can be bought that way, usually people will want something better than stamped, when going up in ratio.

Ray the Rat

iTrader: (1)

I agree wholeheartedly. If yer gonna change rockers and ya want performance, go with rollers...don't mess around with stamped pieces. For those who follow NASCRUD if ya remember back a few years ago, one of the things they did to improve engine reliability was make roller rockers legal. Harland Sharp rockers are good and affordable for SBCs, I dunno about 60V6s. I run 'em in my race car. (See attached photo....that was taken yesterday, 7/27...it might even make it to Bonneville in September.)

Oops. I just checked and HS doesn't make 'em for 60V6. Crane does, but they're $350 for the set:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-25759-12/

project89

iTrader: (1)

ray were u from , im goin to bonneville to run my twin turbo iroc in sept, and may possibly even run my v6 car in the 130 or 150mph club

Ray the Rat

iTrader: (1)

I live about 120 miles from the salt flats. (Taylorsville) I cover (photographs) every event for landracing.com. I'll be running my Monte Carlo in the 130 Club (first time ever run, more of a shakedown, then 150 Club next year), my friend will run his Chevy Colorado pickup again.

Check my website for info:
http://www.chevyasylum.com/Welcome.html

If yer near Sugarhouse, I'll be shooting a cruise nite at a senior center (strange place for a cruise nite) on Friday (tomorrow...451 E 1950 S). If you can, come by and say hi. I'll be in the red Suburban with the white rat on the rear side glass...and the Canon 7D in my hand.

project89

iTrader: (1)

ahh im about 230 miles south of ya, i dont get upto the slc are much only once every few months

Ray the Rat

iTrader: (1)

Guess I'll see ya at WoS then.

92camarorv6

I should have sed i have a set of steel 1.6 roller rockers laying round i have about 5 sets truth be told i work for a shop sucks the things ppl want to throw away. and as for the h.o head ? i know alot about the x 11s and stuff i have all the chevy books from the 70-80s ever thows cool super chevy books that thay did in the 80s the ones that were put out buy gm that coverd the car shows and updated you on all the new cool stuff any one ever seen the paxtan sc for the 2.8 v6 camaro wish i didnt have 56k i would love to share all this stuff.
how came make then im ready to shell out the money for turbo headers.