Would AFR 190s be worth the extra money. I am running a small block 400 and i am looking for around 5-600 hp. THANKS

compared to what? stock heads? in my opinion yes totally!!!

For a big cube small block i'd go with a set of brodix track ones.
they are a better set of heads in my opinion... and cheaper at that.

the AFR heads outshine other similar heads in almost every category.....

these days some heads like the brodix ones are getting close to the same flow numbers, but thats not the whole story.

the Afr's KILL all the other similar sized heads on the market by having amazing flow numbers with a relatively small cross sectional area of the intake port. This means excellent port velocity as well as excellent flow, which is difficult to come by and thats why they can charge a premium for their heads.

i'd take a set of brodix heads over afr's every day of the week, and twice on race day. I'd take the big Dart heads over em to( the Pro 1's i think they are)

head flow numbers are not the only measure of the head. the chamber, the way the ports and bowls are shaped, the studs, the whole package.

the afr's may edge the brodix track ones out on the bench with flow numbers, but the brodix certainly make the power at the track. That's why i'm a fan of them. Big power at the track, Not gimmicks, and PR.

yup and youd lose. you obviously didnt read my post. read it again.

the chamber design on the AFR heads is generally accepted as one of the best in the industry, as they have excellent quench properties. And once again, while flow is important...and AFR winds hands down in the flow department....the real story, especially for a street engine is port velocity....which AFR DESTROYS all other major head manufacturers. When you combine a large cross sectional area (more flow) with excellent port velocity (cylinder filling) you get the whole deal, great low end torque, and high RPM power. This is difficult to accomplish and AFR is one of the few companies that does.

Port velocity is critical especially at low RPM to build torque. The greater the port velocity the more efficient your cylinder filling is. This all leads to much better bottom end torque numbers, and promotes increases in torque over the entire RPM band.

how is it you explain that when they dyno test all the heads on the same motor. (not AFR independent tests) that the AFR's always make more power? in most cases alot of power, not just a little.

people sweat things like brodix heads because "they have always been great" which is not to say they arent, brodix makes an excellent head, AFR's are just better. People with attitudes like this that refuse to look at the real results are the reason that racing technology doesnt advance faster. we are having the same problem with our sanctioning body now not wanting us to use a centrifugal blower. People get preconcieved ideas about things in motorsports and run with it, and refuse to see the truth. thats just how it is.

Being involved in professional motorsports you quickly realize that hype is everwhere, however in motorsports, the adage you get what you pay for is more true than anyplace else. The best stuff costs the most money. There are better heads than AFR's and they are also waaaaay more money

oh ya, and the Dart heads have great flow numbers....but they have Sh*ful port velocity...they dont make the low RPM torque that you can with a good of AFR heads or brodix heads for that matter. they are however, good high rpm heads

i have AFR 195's.. see sig for how well they did for me.

yeah.. i'm responsible for slowing the racing nation down.

Seeing a 1500 buck set of heads on 13 second cars, or high 12 second cars doesn't impress me. that's my main bit of experinece with the 190's.. on a lotta should be 11 sec cars.


now is it the fault of the head entirly no. the fella that designed it is at fault for a majority of it, too low compression, not enough cam.


i'm not trying to bust your stones, and i'm certainly not going to change your mind.. This fella asked about a 406 with 5-600hp.
in my opinon 190's are too small. the track ones are 220 give or take, much better for the big engine.
And since i haven't seen any afr220 or 210's or whatever thier big one is, making any ripples down here on tuesday's or saturdays, i'm not going to recomend this guy get them.
mentioned nothing about it being a street motor @ 500-600hp.
I recomend based on my experience.. what i've seen and who i'e known to have motors with those outputs... track ones, or the big darts... when they start yanking them and putting afr220's on... then i'll consider.

i guess my my iron heads, and 780 holley have put a huge chuck infront of the wheels of progress.
I'm not going to recomend to some stranger, who's asking for an honest opinion, a part based on magazines or hearsay. if i have no first hand knowledge my mouth stays shut. i'm not going to make any sort of recomendation based on should, or could..

only on is, and are.

and based on my experience brodix track ones are the best for a big cube, big power small block.

based on what magazines say, or a few people on here say... is should or could....

option A gets the nod.

I believe a set of AFR 190's would be a little on the small side for the 406. If this thing needs to flow the Track 1 would be the way to go in this case. I do have to argue that the AFR 190's hve proven to put the power down, look at Traxion's car. He has a 350 with AFR 190's, putting down 12.2's on auto. Several people are making tons of power with AFR heads and the Brodix heads. Many of the cars that have run these times with these heads, have either poorly matched parts, lack of tuning, or major traction loss. The power is there, you just have to get it on the ground or tweak it out. My AFR 195's weren't $1500, they were only $1300 shipped. My 210's that i have now were only about $1600 shipped.


In this case, AFR 190ccvs. the Brodix track 1 215cc, i would go with the Brodix track 1 for this 400 small block motor.

if i were to get the AFRs what size would i need
Thanks for all the input

well imo, if u have emmissions, dont go above 195's... if u dont have emmissions.. just go with the 210's or 220's .. wheichever the highest 1 is

hehe sure.....just dont go too big for your combination or port velocity might suffer, resulting in loss of bottom end torque

if you went with AFR's, i think 210's would fit the bill pretty good.

what about TFS's 215 23*heads???

i agree.....220's would be a bit much unless you were running a very radical cam profile

how do the trick flows caompare to the AFRs

Theres a comparison? j/k

there is a few things you should be aware of before purchasing these heads.....

1: the valve cover rails that the gasket is suppose to seal against is real ****ty and may cause problems if not used with a thick cork gasket.....

2: don't plan on using factory head bolts because of the way the pockets are machined

3: the valve cover bolt hole on centerbolt afrs are not deep enough and will require a shim under the 4 bolts....

4: valvetrain is cheap from what i hear

5: the maching for the pushrod slots could use alot more attention...

the afr 210 & 220s flow so close to the tfs 23* 215s..I have the tfs 195 23* heads and have gone low 12s with a tame 355 in a 3450lb car In your case i'd go with tfs 215 23* heads or the afr 210s for what should be an ez 500+hp

http://www.trickflow.com/product/prh...ure_index2.htm

http://www.airflowresearch.com/


:rockon:

The only valvetrain problem i'm aware of in the past is the rocker stuts use to break. They have now "corrected" the problem. Which seems to be true since my 195s are doing fine with no stuts breaking. I do have the problem with the valve cover not sealing, i'll have to try a thick core gasket instead of this "premium moroso gasket" that is reuseable.

35$ for the Standard Abrasive porting kit and any decent aftermarket set of heads can easily put out the same kind of power that AFRs make. Its amazing what the removal of casting flash and an overall runner sand down will do, turns a 800$-1000$ set of heads into a 1500$ set of heads real fast. But of course this assumes your not afraid to fire up the old die grinder.

My .02

even though i didnt read the whole post my opinion

brodix track 1's best race head out there... most people are concerned about "a streat head" almost all "street cars" operate in a higher rpm range that most of the other heads can flow, especialy the afr's... now for a true street car or a small hp small block the afr's work extremely well... better thatn the brodix heads... but if u want a monster machine and a true "race car" dish the money out for the cnc brodix heads then mill the bithches. now i have seen afr on some high winders and they do produce good numbers but comparable motors on comparable compression ratios w brodix heads have produced alot more power.

now about trick flow... great company great product... but in my opinion they should put more effort into their chevy product as they do their ford ones... now about their heads...they flow...and flow and flow... great set of heads for the money.... they do tend to need some special hardware but hey lets not be cheap when it come to heads. ive seen several trick flow cars into the 12's (mid and high) already so there is no doubt t hat they can flow realy well... in my opinion i would go w the trick flow heads!

My only problem with trick flow heads is that they are wayyy overrated. Two of my friends bought a set of the tfs 23* 195 cc runner heads. They are supposed to flow 258cfm intake at .5 on their website. one of my friends heads flowed 242 at .5 and the others flowed 244 at .5. I thought that was pretty lame. If there is anything good to be said about AFR it is that what they promise is what they deliver for the most part.

even thought they may be overhyped and overated, they deliver... they work and thats the bottom line... i guess the price u pay for afr's ensure u get what they promised.... also dont afr' come cnc .... im not sure but i think not all the TFS come cnc

The trick flow CNC's run about the same price of the AFR heads. does anybody know when chevy high performnace did the head test,if they used the CNC Trickflows or the regular ones?

Look into ProTopLines 200cc head, that is what HITHERE am going to use. They flow great and are cheap.

i have the plain 195 tfs heads and am happy with them. I went 12.30s@113+ on dinky radials. If i had a bigger cam, more compression, converter, gears, and cheeter slicks i'd be running 11s ez

ps the 23* heads flow 250@.500 and the G2 heads flow 258@.500

oops i repeted what i said...

They are 2.08/1.6 valve heads. AFRs flow just as well with a 10cc smaller runner and 2.02/1.6 valve.

#3 is pretty easy. Just cut the bolts. Thats what I did.

yeah, but they are hella cheaper though..