IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Its a sign...cancel the order and get another system.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I agree.

-- Joe

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

i know several people that have it and love it

blackbmagic

So, whats the verdict? Its been well over two weeks. I ordered my kit Friday and it is coming on Tuesday. So, I am sure you have yours.

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

I finally got it like 2 weeks ago. after waiting for several months, haven't installed it yet, cant wait to do it

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I gotta say....since I installed mine, it definitely seems to have more power off idle and the car starts right up!! That's a huge thing when you're running a blower!!

The only issue I'm continuing to have is the idle. It seems to kinda lag back down to an idle from 1500 back down to 950. I'm guessing that part of the issue is how much initial advance I run with this blower....it likes a lot of initial advance and I have it set at 21-22 degrees BTDC....so it wants to idle faster which means I have the butterflies almost closed. Same issue with a carb, but I never had an issue with a carb returning back to idle like it should.

-There must be a way to compensate on the hand held, but I haven't figured it out yet.

I'm willing to bet that if I were running say, a mild 350 with headers, I doubt I would need to do anything with the FItech so far as tuning....

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hrmm.. Having similar issues with my car. Wants to idle around 26 degrees. I'm sure you'll sort it out.

Any pictures of it installed ?

-- Joe

kitt23

iTrader: (4)

I got mine installed. I have the frame mount fuel pump...God damn is it extremely loud

Zach12890

Hello back again checking in on my post since I have been playing with the system for some more time now, I am still having the decal/stall issue with little to no help from the customer service dept from fitech. which seems to be a common problem everyone is having.

since my last visit here I have switched to e85, and a smaller top pulley netting me 10psi.. I will give them this it works great with e85, and the car runs awesome WOT, its the normal drivability I'm having issues with. And almost nothing has corrected it.

here is my current setup

357 SBC with a B&M 142, AFR 195s, SUM-K1107 Cam..

My biggest issues are while driving normally, going through gears,(5spd)
when going from 1st to 2nd (this is an example as I have the same problem during any upshift) when I try to lightly accel into the next gear, I go very lean for a second (17.1-20.1) then it will correct itself, I have tried playing with the accep pump and accel decay from -40 to +40 on both settings with no change but you can see the change after this first second, so I know that's not the problem.

another issue I have is if I am in lets say 4th gear at 2500 and I close the throttle as deceling to a red light then push the clutch in and try to let it coast instead of downshifting ect, it will either stall or drop to a very low rpm 300-400, then catch back up, I have found ways to bandaid this problem such as messing with decal iac decay and decel rpm decay, but I do not belive that I should have to wait 15-30 seconds for my idle to drop down to my desired setting. (850)

Another issue I have, lets say this thing acts like an on off switch, If I want to get going quicker, but not WOT, lets say I want to run through first second and third at half throttle, if I shift and get back into it half way right away, I will have an even worse lean condition for that first second or two in the next gear, then it will correct..

I also notice that sometimes if I am deceling and I push the clutch in, as the engine drops back down to idle I will see almost 0 vacuum as it approaches idle. going from a moderate decel to a coast condition.. So that leaves me unsure if I just cannot get a good tune or I have some type of vacuum leak that only shows itself when the engine is really hunting for air, then again during the decel I will see up to 20-22 inches which leads me away from a vacuum leak..

well any suggestions are appreaciated thanks.

Zach12890

Off topic, but hows it going blackbmagic, maybe you will remember I picked up a distributer from you probably 4-5 years ago now, I had a blue 87z at the time.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

This system controls timing?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Just buy a megasquirt.

You can re-use all the sensors, throttle body, etc.

-- Joe

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/336488-fitech-fuel-injection-systems.html

Read this thread. 2nd page first post.This system is made in china.

Zach12890

I am not exactly sure what point you are trying to make about where it made. In fact im willing to bet the electronic device you are using to reply to my post is made overseas.. along with pretty much every other electronic we use on a daily basis. Including the ECMs in half of the daily driver cars we have..

But anyway.. Quality of the system is not at question here as i have driven it for a year now and it hasnt "crapped out" as ive heard from others.. Maybe im just lucky but for now im going to stick with the idea that it is a well made unit that i have not completely learned how to tune yet.

This system does control timing and does have a boost reference port for both the regulator [blow thru setup] and intake manifold vacuum/boost [draw thru setup] so i am also not sure what the point of the other forum is linked for. I have watched it with my own eyes pull timing as boost rises. And target fuel where i want it. Like i said it runs great at WOT. But i cannot get a very good tune going for daily driving. Its drivable.. but a little annoying at times.

I think my next try will be to eliminate the timing control. Use my BTM for that.. and have the unit read vacuum above the blower rather then in the intake manifold. Because i feel like 99% of my problems are caused by the vacuum signal the unit is picking up.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Jeremy used to be a member here years ago. He took off to China to do "OEM EFI work". Guess we know what that was now.


-- Joe

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Post 109 seems to me your having some issues. Am I wrong? I have a Holley unit. When you have issues you call them, or use the message board or email. Does not FITech have a tech line?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Sorry, havent kept up since i posted. There was no doubt in my mind where the thing is made...in China. I know, so unusual nowadays. Says it right on the box..."Engineered in USA and built in China".

Zach - I stillhavea bunch to learnabout this whole thing myself, but if I were experiencing what youre going through, I'd try "resetting all learning" and start over. I'm resisting the urge to stay out of the pro tuning section, and allow it to learn for a bit to see where IT wants the AFR to be and go from there. In boost, it seems I can probably lean it out a little and get away with it...but it's not too horrible.....under full WOT, I'm seeing my AFR go to 11.2:1.....which might be a bit on the rich side with only 7 pounds of boost, but it's SAFE for now. Light throttle cruise out of boost seems pretty good really....seems to be around 12.8:1 to 13.3:1 under light throttle, and goes as lean as 14.2:1 when i let off the gas. It idles at about 13.5:1....

I'm also controlling my own timing, and run a MSD 6BTM. I normally only set the dial to pull 1 degree of timing per pound of boost.

I only have a couple of pics of my Fitech installed...

Zach12890

I have tried this a few times and tried leaving all the settings alone for 100 miles or so but it never seems to learn its way around the stalling and i have gone over everything elce 50 times looking for vac leaks ect and it didnt do it with the un tuned qjet i had on it. It actullay ran very well with the qjet besides being way to rich on a decel and leaving black spots on my back bumper above the tail pipes it looked like a cummins with the pump turned up to far..

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

If its stalling and its efi its in the idle circuit.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I dont know if you have done this or what your situation is but if you google fitech stalling there are numerous forum web pages that come up that you can delve into with alot of fixes. One mentioned system needed min 58psi fp. Theres alot of info there to read over. Wiring, grounds, melted connectors, how to properly set iac, command center issues and fixes etc. Just saying alot more info there than here.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like you're running the EFI 8 correct?

My car ran great with a carb too...but in order to ensure it never ran lean while in boost, I had to jet the thing up on the rich side which always fouled out the plugs pretty quick. I've had to change my plugs out a couple of times after they got fouled up while experimenting with this Fitech...but it makes a big difference to have decent plugs while tuning it.

I had the same issue with stalling with the Fitech at one time. I know it's important to ensure your IAC step count is between 2 and 9. That can be adjusted after the engine is fully warmed up after a drive by adjusting the throttle blade screw. If you need to adjust it in and the idle raises, shut the engine down and key to "off". Wait for 30 seconds and restart. It should return to whatever idle rpm you had it originally set to after you restart it. For me, that made the biggest difference in the idle returning semi-normally. It does still to hang and wander down more than it should, but not as bad now.

-Then there's a Decel Fuel cutout. It could be that when you're letting off the throttle completely when stopping, the fuel barrel is drying out due to the fuel completely cutting itself off. It was a while ago, but I "think" manually putting in a setting of 10 basically defeats the fuel totally cutting out. For whatever reason, it seemed to help with mine and it's no longer stalling out.....but I've not really tried downshifting to a stop since I set everything to relearn....it used to stall if I downshifted to a stop light....

There's no doubt in my mind that these units (and I bet all the others too) are not set up to learn engines with roots blowers on them....at least not completely. The way the vacuum drops on decal, and at WOT has to be a bit different than what you'd see on any N/A car. Speaking of that, I have my MSD, my vacuum advance and the Fitech all connected to manifold vacuum....not the throttle body. You can try connecting yours to the throttle body, but I'm not too sure if that would sense actual vacuum correctly...

Like you, my car seems to run great while just cruising around and at WOT it seems to have even more power than when I ran any carb. But - like you again, the return to idle is still an issue. Mine hasn't stalled the past several times I've had it out - fingers crossed...

If I find that perfect combo of settings, I'll post it up, as well as keep an eye on this post to see if you're having better luck.

Zach12890

That was basically my whole point of posting here to find someone with a similar combo and issue. Yes I am running the efi 8 1200. I swapped an intank 340lph e85 ready pump. I am using timing control though. I personally think the unit has better options then using the msd as is because i can get timing up to 45 at a cruise which is great for an 8.5 to 1 motor when its not in a boost condition and it will pull it all out quicker then i can get the pedal down back to the 28 i have it set for under boost.

I have set the IAC to the correct steps and my fuel pump is supplying around 95psi with the supply ran dead to a gauge (disconnected for testing) And i also have the DFCO disabled. Even though i dont think that was the issue because a few times i forgot to disable it (after restarting my tune) you can tell when it was cutting fuel during a decel but inbetween the decel and idle you can tell it returns early and is already running again before the stall condition.. its weird. And I definitly think your right about the unit having a hard time learning a roots engine.. I was reading a few posts on Chevelles website and they have a very large thread going about the fitech. The Cam settings 1-4 are basically pre-made VE tables.. gives the fitech an idea where to start from then it will adjust from there. Ive tried all 4 settings and monitored fuel learn and fuel trims and they are sometimes almost -30 or +30 which means the "self learn" or what i would call it is constant adjustment is adding or subtracting that amount from the pre-made map.. or VE table.. I belive if i knew how to build my own VE table that would be alot closer to what the engine needed and i had less "constant adjustments" going on it would run much better. This can be done by showing "POWERADDER tuning" you can modify the CAM setting you are using. I belive this could be part of the issue as its trying to subtract 30% fuel on the decel then when it realizes it has to idle again it has to add that 30% back to get to the pre set map then another 30% to get to what the motor actullay wants. Idk i could be totally wrong but I think this is whats going on.

And even though i dont want to loose the timing control or being able to have seperate boost AFR adjustments. I belive if you set this unit up as a N/A and ran it basically like a carb (remove the set screw under the TB and plug the front port) I dont think it would stall. But like i said i want to have the full control this unit offers. So we continue to test until its figured out.

I have tried decel open iac inbetween +40 and -40 i have tried playing with decel iac decay and decel rpm decay and sometimes i think it works for a few times but its like the unit learns around what i changed and stalls again on purpose like its screwing with me lol..

Edit: and as far as i know when it comes to where you have your vacuum hooked up. I belive you should have the same vacuum inbetween the blower and Tb and in the manifold. Unless under boost then you would obviously see boost in the manifold and still see vacuum under the TB. So i wouldnt hook it up there because then the TB would not be boost referenced.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I tried running timing control at first with mine, and I just couldn't get the engine to run correctly. It was most likely something I was or wasn't doing....I even went through the expense of buying a 2 wire distributor and an adjustable rotor. The hitch I found with the whole adjustable rotor thing is that you really need to know where you want your initial advance set, because if you twist the distributor after "phasing the rotor" - everything is off again.....I found that frustrating. A lot of fiddling around I thought, so I reinstalled my Mallory uni-lite distributor and started using the boost retard again on the MSD.

I may take a shot at Fitech timing control again for the reasons you mentioned...the separate settings for timing control under boost is kinda neat. No way I would consider removing the set screw and running it like it's a NA engine though....I'd think you would run too lean under boost and take a chance on either lean backfires, or even worse....lean detonation that could slowly destroy things. If I did that, I think I would end up setting it up too much like a carb...running it on the rich side all the time to keep it safe. Seems like you would lose the whole advantage of having it in the first place?? I mean, the only time you want to fatten up on fuel is while you're under boost, so you'd lose the ability to do that correct?

Every time I've looked at fuel trim I notice similar to you...-30 or +30. Seems like it never really learns a good setting. I expect it to change, but not as drastically as it seems to.

It's obvious to me by your post that you've done more tuning with your FI than I've done with mine. I'm sure I'll need to learn a lot more before I have any hope of dialing this in to a point where it runs perfect under all conditions....

BOOT77

Nice I wanted to do the same if I can someday.

Dscott

Anyone have any input on a NA application? My vortec 406 is almost finished and I was going to get one with spark control.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

under the bug catcher. set up to run with gm efi parts. you can run as many or little injectors as you like.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Anyone on the fence about these or has a order on backorder, check out the new Holley sniper system. Same as the fitech , but with holley.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I wish I could buy a sniper minus ECU. I think they would work fantastic for carb swaps where I wanted to use a megasquirt.

-- Joe

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

​​I think the ecu is a little hand held unit. Ill go out on a limb and say its probably a holley hp ecu compacted down l. Only because the the original ecu came out years ago. Its a 1000 out the door. I know all these guys are into it on the FItech system. But I would trust the holley unit all day over that one. Better install instructions and after the sale tech help. See many trying here to get answers. Not sure how thats turning out. Plus the look on the holley sniper looks alot more like a traditional carb vs the blocky design of the fitech.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

Does anyone have any updates on these units? I'm kicking around the idea of getting a FiTech 600 PA or a Sniper EFI. The Sniper seems like it's still missing features, but most of the posts I'm reading are 8+ months old.

Not really intending on running a power adder on this build, but that model allows the option of PC programming, rather than just changing options from the menu. As a tech guy, I like options. It also keeps options open for later.

The other problem I might have here is that my 84TA doesn't have an in-tank pump. It only had the mechanical pump. I installed an inline Carter low pressure fuel pump. I don't want to run the command center or any of that junk. So I either need to retrofit my fuel tank\sender\wiring, or install an inline pump that's suitable to a TBI system. Any thoughts on this?

robotic_junky

Use a gas tank from a newer Firebird or Camaro (85-92) that has fuel injection, the sending unit for a newer one, and use the electric in-tank fuel pump for a TPI (not TBI) v8.

The newer tank will have baffles inside so fuel doesn't slosh around. Use TPI stock pump or Walbro 255 pump because the Fitech needs 58 psi fuel pressure. The TBI pump only produces around 13 psi. Also an in-tank pump will run cooler than an external one.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

I assume I'll have to do some rewiring. Presently the wiring comes from the same harness as the tail lights. Well, it's just for the fuel gauge. Does the later fuel gauge sender work with the 82-84 style gauge?

blackbmagic

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here so I'll respond best I can.

With the fitech 600 you will have more programming capabilities than you will ever need naturally aspirated. You can add the PC programming on the 600 unit just call the manufacturer. The power adder units come with the software preloaded on the handheld.

The fuel command center actually isn't junk. It's intended to be used with a stock mechanical pump, it also acts as a sump something our tanks don't have, it has an efficient variable speed pump as well.

However you have many other options. You can use an LS1 tank. You can use a tank from a TPI thirdgen. Careful as a TBI tank pump won't push enough pressure. You can weld in a sump on your tank and add an aftermarket pump. You can use an inline pump, in fact FI tech makes an inline kit (loud). You can also buy almost any of the aftermarket remote sump kits on the market. Actually your options are near limetless ranging from bolt on to custom. Some options will have more hose work than others of course.

The fuel command center will wind up being the best bang for the buck. Been there done that. The only other way I would do it is an LS1 tank with all new plumbing.

Does that answer most of your questions?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Does FI Tech support computer controlled HEI?

Holley Sniper does NOT, which is kinda bs.

Any screen shots of the PC tuning software?

-- Joe

blackbmagic

I don't use the PC software but I'm sure you can find on the web or through the manufacturer.

No they don't support it. The way HEI is designed it will not work well with computer controlled timing. I tried my best with my locked out HEI and CDI box but the nature of the components and the style of pickup it just doesn't work well. You need a coil driven 2 wire dizzy with an 8 point pickup that can be locked out. Even when locking out an HEI the timing changes slightly through the RPM range.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

AFAIK, the FiTech only supports 2-wire distributors if you're using it to control timing.

I only refer to the command center as junk because the idea of an extra fuel cell in the engine compartment seems like a bad idea to me in the event of a front end collision.

The idea of an inline fuel pump works best for me, since that's how I'm currently running things. That being said, an in-tank option would be ideal. I doubt I'll really hear the pump over the exhaust, but I've read that inline pumps don't last very long either.

Just trying to figure out what the best cost-to-benefit is here. I've already gone thousands over my budget. I'm trying to not dig myself too much deeper if I can help it. That and I'm really, really eager to drive my car. This is the third season now of delays. I'm hoping to have it on the road by July.

blackbmagic

Your least expensive option will be the Inline pump. It is frame rail mounted and must be below the tank level. Isolating it properly will reduce the noise but it will be loud and annoying. It's also not the most efficient setup.

The next cheapest option is probably the FCC. Followed closely by a used TPI tank/pump. And then an LS1 tank and pump. LS1 tank and pump will be the best option but used they run $200+ then you have to run new lines and AN fittings from pump.

naf

iTrader: (7)

my 87 LG4 had the in-tank helper pump. swapped in a walbro 255 and used the factory fuel lines up to the fenderwell, re-routed slightly to come up by the strut mount instead of along the bottom fender well ledge. compression fittings to OEM style nylon hose to the fitech, with appropriate AN to quick disconnect fittings.

you 'may' be able to modify your existing sender or swap a FI sender in its place.

I need to take some current pictures of the set up.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I said computer controlled HEI - I.e, stock 7/8 pin module. As in a factory EFI distributor.

Not modifying an non-cc dizzy.

A lot of aftermarket systems support computer controlled HEI, but Holley Sniper does not. I wasn't sure if Fi-Tech did.

-- Joe

naf

iTrader: (7)

apparently some have modified the ccc-hei dist for control of timing by the fitech.

I haven't had time to try it myself yet.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I supposes you can wire the pickup direct to the fi-tech. It will handle the dwell and all that, and can fire a coil directly right?

Edit: Yeah I just read up on it. So the Fi-Tech will read the HEI pickup directly. So remove the module, wire the 2 wire pickup to the ECU, and the ECU will fire the coil.

That's one thing better than Holley's.. I don't get why Holley can't read the HEI pickup. It's pretty standard.

-- Joe

naf

iTrader: (7)

that's what I've read.

since I pulled an MSD computer controlled HEI off the motor I plan to re-install it at some point and try the timing control. probably later this summer.

running a vac/mech HEI now that I picked up for like $60 with the adjustable can and spring kit that ran maybe another $30.

88Greg

The holley sniper computer can be wired in to directly read the mag pickup in an HEI dizzy in the same way. It then can fire a coil thru an adapter box or trigger an MSD box directly.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

Hmm... Well, all I have presently is a Vac Advance\Large Cap HEI, so I'd probably be running timing separately for now, unless there's a source for the proper distributor\coil around the $100 mark.

I do have a FI sender from a parts car... But it's in rough shape. I pitched the tank because it was rusted all to hell. It might be salvageable, though.

Does anyone know if the late model senders are compatible with the early model fuel gauge?

Edit: Or maybe... Can anyone see a reason that I couldn't use my current electric pump as a lifter pump, and then put a high pressure pump in\near the engine compartment to boost the pressure?

Pump: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/v...92bx/overview/

naf

iTrader: (7)

I'd run the vac advance HEI to start, one less issue to worry about until you're comfortable with the function of the fitech unit.

if you've got the in-tank helper pump (L69), just swap it out for the walbro 255. only mod I had to do was trim the line to the pump about an inch as the walbro was a tad longer than the stock pump. don't be afraid of dropping the tank.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

I don't have the in-tank helper pump.. The only thing installed was a mechanical at the time I got it. Thus the inline pump I installed. I'm not sure if it was never updated, or if a PO swapped the sending unit at some point.

My primary concern is the fuel gauge. I really have no problem dropping the tank again. Additionally the wiring is different from the later model cars - the wiring for the sending unit is part of the same harness that goes to the tail lights, etc. It's a 2-wire plug that dangles off from where the rear light harness comes out. It is not the 3 wire plug that enters between the back seats. It would suck to pull everything, install a pump, moving wiring, etc, to find out that my fuel gauge doesn't work properly.

blackbmagic

I could be wrong but I don't believe HEI allows for a proper lockout of timing. Also, the HEI pickup is different than a coil driven pickup and can't be phased as well.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So the 2 wire ignition input is the same as the VR output on a GM dizzy?

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What do you mean lockout of timing?

The the electronic HEI distributors are locked, they have no advance mechanism. The rotor points at the terminal at the falling edge of the signal.

The Sniper has a 50* spark reference angle. The instructions have some absurd procedure of marking the balancer, marking the distributor, etc.

Or you can just turn the dizzy until the car fires, and verify your ignition timing with an adjustable gun. The target spark advance on the screen should match what you see on the balancer.

-- Joe

blackbmagic

Never had a computer controlled distributor so I cant comment.

I am talking about a standard HEI vs a external coil small cap distributor. The pickup coils are different. When locking out your timing (which is needed for EFI computer to control timing) phasing becomes important and not only the cap/rotor but the pickup.

Listen...I am not an expert. I do all my own research and work. I had an MSD HEI that I modified to a 2-wire and used a CDI box with. I could not get it to work well with the FI tech. I swapped in a pro billet, took of the gear, rotated, and locked the timing. Set up the blaster coil and CDI box and like magic it all started to work better.

Could there have been an issue with my HEI? That could have been a possibility.

I recommend a small cap anyway they are superior. Again, just an opinion.