That "prototype" manifold...
10-22-2009, 12:20 PM
#1
That "prototype" manifold...
...from FoggedV6...I have it now.
Promised some pics and a description.
This is the initial thread
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...at-intake.html
My observations so far. It's a GM manifold, it has the winters foundry snowflake on it. It is a prototype most likely as it's sand cast and has a number M-0012 on it.
On the inside there are bumps epoxied w/ copper tubes as foundations, most likely for airflow into the runners. The sides are epoxied too above the injector bosses. The inside is hogged out there real thin. It would have broken through if not for the epoxy. I'll compare it with a stealthram and maybe a miniram this weekend...can take pics alongside stock setup too.
The tiny holes in between the runners connect to a port on the rear of the manifold, possibly connected to the EGR but don't have the tools to remove the blockoff plate and check. Nice ports for some spray LOL
Promised some pics and a description.
This is the initial thread
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...at-intake.html
My observations so far. It's a GM manifold, it has the winters foundry snowflake on it. It is a prototype most likely as it's sand cast and has a number M-0012 on it.
On the inside there are bumps epoxied w/ copper tubes as foundations, most likely for airflow into the runners. The sides are epoxied too above the injector bosses. The inside is hogged out there real thin. It would have broken through if not for the epoxy. I'll compare it with a stealthram and maybe a miniram this weekend...can take pics alongside stock setup too.
The tiny holes in between the runners connect to a port on the rear of the manifold, possibly connected to the EGR but don't have the tools to remove the blockoff plate and check. Nice ports for some spray LOL
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; 10-23-2009 at 02:47 AM.
10-22-2009, 08:37 PM
#3
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
The base looks like it could have been an initial design for the T-Ram, but the plenum cover is not even close. Try contacting Ryan Falconer, he is the guy that made the SLP T-Ram, not sure if he designed it though.
Here is a link to his company.
http://www.falconerengines.com/
I talked to him once back in the late 90's, cool guy.
Here is a link to his company.
http://www.falconerengines.com/
I talked to him once back in the late 90's, cool guy.
10-23-2009, 06:45 AM
#4
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Why would an SLP piece have a Winters Foundry snowflake on it? I have another GM prototype manifold, it too has the winters snowflake.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; 10-23-2009 at 07:53 AM.
10-23-2009, 12:00 PM
#5
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Why would an SLP piece have a Winters Foundry snowflake on it? I have another GM prototype manifold, it too has the winters snowflake.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
Too cool!
10-23-2009, 02:17 PM
#6
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Why would an SLP piece have a Winters Foundry snowflake on it? I have another GM prototype manifold, it too has the winters snowflake.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
This is my GM crossram prototype. It has a GM part number with a /00 at the end.
10-23-2009, 03:17 PM
#7
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I never tested it, it's part of my collection of rare intake stuff and misc. crap I don't really need LOL. I have no idea what that intake is set up for, it has very weird bosses welded on that are for what looks like some kind of funky mechanical injectors. There are ports for idle air it seems, ara common fuel feed and injectors which are side fed. I never did find out what it was for exactly.
I also have these:
Small & Big block crower mech FI setups. I have the pumps, drives, covers, barrell valves...everything for both.
The small block one is NOS, has never run.
and this is a custom EFI setup, it's 7 pieces (4x 2 bbls, front & rear crossover & valley plate)and has large race sized ports.
I also have these:
Small & Big block crower mech FI setups. I have the pumps, drives, covers, barrell valves...everything for both.
The small block one is NOS, has never run.
and this is a custom EFI setup, it's 7 pieces (4x 2 bbls, front & rear crossover & valley plate)and has large race sized ports.
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10-23-2009, 06:02 PM
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10-23-2009, 08:10 PM
#9
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Why would an SLP piece have a Winters Foundry snowflake on it? I have another GM prototype manifold, it too has the winters snowflake.
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
Falconer was affiliated with GM I think, one of his V12s (1.5 small block LOL) went into the Conan V12 Corvette.
Do you have a picture of a T-ram with the top off?
SLP was a supplier to GM and built the FireHawk as a production GM vehicle and also built performance parts with GM part #'s that were sold through thier dealer network.
T-Ram base and bottom of plenum.
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...OCs2008027.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...OCs2008025.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...OCs2008028.jpg
10-24-2009, 12:37 PM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Cool stuff Marck! Thanks for posting.
Dude you have some awesome stuff, lots of unique pieces. GM has to be jealous of your collection! haha
Dude you have some awesome stuff, lots of unique pieces. GM has to be jealous of your collection! haha
10-24-2009, 02:33 PM
#12
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I decided to remove the epoxy crap and copper tubes. Turns out the tubes were tightened down with little set screws first and then epoxied up. Nothing a die grinder can't fix. Radiused the port entries while I was at it, still needs cleanng up though and I need to weld up the holes where the set screws were.
Also took a bunch of pics to compare to a stealthram, it's smaller than the stealthram for sure.
Someone also used UNC bolts to hold down the fuel rails (2 of the 4 holes had a bolt) but the holes are threaded for metric threads so I cleaned the damaged threads and used allen heads to mount the fuel rails.
Also took a bunch of pics to compare to a stealthram, it's smaller than the stealthram for sure.
Someone also used UNC bolts to hold down the fuel rails (2 of the 4 holes had a bolt) but the holes are threaded for metric threads so I cleaned the damaged threads and used allen heads to mount the fuel rails.
10-24-2009, 02:41 PM
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Car: 91 Z28, 2000 T/A
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
so smaller plenum volume also runners are shorter and smaller than the HSR. Basically for a high revving smaller cube motor that intake would kick some ***.... gotta find a 327 that you wanna fuel inject!
Do you think the tubes/epoxy was in there to kinda of extend the runner length? Possibly to try an move the RPM range down some?
Do you think the tubes/epoxy was in there to kinda of extend the runner length? Possibly to try an move the RPM range down some?
Last edited by 3rd gen Will; 10-24-2009 at 02:44 PM.
10-24-2009, 02:53 PM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Nice, in the pics it kinda looks like they are similar in length to the miniram. They def look larger than stock TPI one though
10-24-2009, 09:23 PM
#18
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
That was a great find.
I dont think the manifold has any relation to the T-Ram, the only reason I mentioned it was that it was brought up in the other thread.
Couple of random thoughts -
Who installed the copper pipe and epoxy to the inside of the plenum?
The base would benifit from a pan to keep the hot oil off of it.
I like how short the manifold is, would clear any third gen hood.
The runners are short, definatley a high RPM manifold.
I bet the fuel rails heat up being that close the manifold, just like the T-Ram. ( T-Ram has the runners cast into the huge heat sink otherwise known as the upper plenum).
Wounder if there any weird distrobution problems with the runners being so short and the plenum being in the lifter valley?
Nice collection of intakes, where do you find this stuff?
I dont think the manifold has any relation to the T-Ram, the only reason I mentioned it was that it was brought up in the other thread.
Couple of random thoughts -
Who installed the copper pipe and epoxy to the inside of the plenum?
The base would benifit from a pan to keep the hot oil off of it.
I like how short the manifold is, would clear any third gen hood.
The runners are short, definatley a high RPM manifold.
I bet the fuel rails heat up being that close the manifold, just like the T-Ram. ( T-Ram has the runners cast into the huge heat sink otherwise known as the upper plenum).
Wounder if there any weird distrobution problems with the runners being so short and the plenum being in the lifter valley?
Nice collection of intakes, where do you find this stuff?
10-25-2009, 07:32 AM
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10-26-2009, 05:56 PM
#24
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
indeed, the plenum is separated from the valley plate, you can see the gap in the 2nd pic in post #13. The bottom of the plenum is deeper than the rubbers, there's a hollow channel under there that connects those little holes between the runner entries to a plugged port on the back. Still have to check if that's the EGR or not.
10-26-2009, 07:53 PM
#25
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
The reason I mentioned adding a seperate plate is that the runners are connected to the base. Heat rises, and the upper plenum becomes a huge heat sink. I guess the oil temps wouldnt add much more to the IAT's but it does make a difference.
I have monitored this with the T-Ram, 90 degree ambient temps while driving equates to 100 +/- IAT's, park it for 5 minutes and those temps become 150 degree + IAT's.
I have monitored this with the T-Ram, 90 degree ambient temps while driving equates to 100 +/- IAT's, park it for 5 minutes and those temps become 150 degree + IAT's.
10-30-2009, 07:37 PM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
it might be worth it to see is Aaron at Intakeelbows.com could clean that thing up a bit. Im sure he could remove the epoxy behind the injector bosses and weld it up to give you a better finished product. He could also fix all of those holes in the base for you as well, dude does some awesome work.
10-30-2009, 09:43 PM
#27
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I'm in the Netherlands, I have an AC watercooled Tig machine 
I can do that myself. I'll just clean up the epoxy on the outside, the inside is already done. No sense in removing the epoxy and then having to grind away more aluminum to remove any epoxy traces that could contaminate the welds. Too much work. It doesn't even show behind the injector bosses.
I checked out the intakeelbows site I sure can't weld that clean. I'm decent at alu but not that good. Check out marcella manifolds for even more awesome fabbed sheet metal intakes.
I can do that myself. I'll just clean up the epoxy on the outside, the inside is already done. No sense in removing the epoxy and then having to grind away more aluminum to remove any epoxy traces that could contaminate the welds. Too much work. It doesn't even show behind the injector bosses. I checked out the intakeelbows site I sure can't weld that clean. I'm decent at alu but not that good. Check out marcella manifolds for even more awesome fabbed sheet metal intakes.
10-30-2009, 11:29 PM
#28
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
This is neat looking. What are you plans for it?
11-01-2009, 12:24 AM
#31
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I'm in the Netherlands, I have an AC watercooled Tig machine I can do that myself. I'll just clean up the epoxy on the outside, the inside is already done. No sense in removing the epoxy and then having to grind away more aluminum to remove any epoxy traces that could contaminate the welds. Too much work. It doesn't even show behind the injector bosses.
I checked out the intakeelbows site I sure can't weld that clean. I'm decent at alu but not that good. Check out marcella manifolds for even more awesome fabbed sheet metal intakes.
I can do that myself. I'll just clean up the epoxy on the outside, the inside is already done. No sense in removing the epoxy and then having to grind away more aluminum to remove any epoxy traces that could contaminate the welds. Too much work. It doesn't even show behind the injector bosses. I checked out the intakeelbows site I sure can't weld that clean. I'm decent at alu but not that good. Check out marcella manifolds for even more awesome fabbed sheet metal intakes.
11-01-2009, 04:17 AM
#32
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I'm using it because no one else has one and it can't possibly be worse than the anemic stock TPI setup I have on there now..
The holes for the set screws are really small, easily welded up no problem.
The holes for the set screws are really small, easily welded up no problem.
11-01-2009, 06:33 PM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I would definately look at cleaning the inside casting up a bit myself, but im a little on the obsessive compulsive side. Im sure that will pull to 5500 rpm at least which is a hundred times better then the tpis 4500 rpm limit. What are the specs on the heads/shortblock?
11-01-2009, 06:51 PM
#35
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Stock 350 for now, I'll eventually upgrade it to most likely zz9 cam, my old TFS twisted wedge heads, after I replace all the guides again, all the valves, all the seals and get some proper comp cams rockers (which are for G1s) and other springs than the crappy K-motion junk they came with.
11-19-2009, 02:25 AM
#37
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Im pretty sure it is a Lingenfelter piece IIRC, Im 98% certain that Ive seen that manifold before up here in Connecticut at a car show on none other than a third gen Camaro.
After further investigation that intake manifold was used for the Callaway Corvettes. Sorry to solve your mystery.
After further investigation that intake manifold was used for the Callaway Corvettes. Sorry to solve your mystery.
11-19-2009, 02:31 AM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Im pretty sure it is a Lingenfelter piece IIRC, Im 98% certain that Ive seen that manifold before up here in Connecticut at a car show on none other than a third gen Camaro.
After further investigation that intake manifold was used for the Callaway Corvettes. Sorry to solve your mystery.
After further investigation that intake manifold was used for the Callaway Corvettes. Sorry to solve your mystery.
11-19-2009, 04:34 AM
#39
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
I thought it was that
Retry posting the reply:
It's not a callaway 100+ intake:
Looks similar but it's 1 pc and has the grooves on top and a cover for the ignition.
The callaway piece is also not the same as the street & performance ramport but they are kind of alike. The s&P ramport does not have an airgap under the plenum
Retry posting the reply:
It's not a callaway 100+ intake:
Looks similar but it's 1 pc and has the grooves on top and a cover for the ignition.
The callaway piece is also not the same as the street & performance ramport but they are kind of alike. The s&P ramport does not have an airgap under the plenum
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; 11-19-2009 at 05:26 AM.
11-19-2009, 04:43 AM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
This is proving to be quite difficult, Im gonna have to wait until next season and try to find this guy. His didnt have the cover nor the ridges up top and I could have sworn he said it was a Lingenfelter piece but my uncle who was with me at the time said it was Callaway and he had seen it before but your right they arent the same.
11-19-2009, 05:23 AM
#41
Re: That "prototype" manifold...
What the hell? my entire post is gone....I typed a small essay and poof..only 1 sentence left... I'll type again.
anyway, I think the callaway 100+ manifold is a 2x4 dual quad intake w/ a custom fabricated box on top, the grooves and cover are simply the top chopped off a std. TPI intake welded on top. Too bad I can't find close up pics of it.
anyway, I think the callaway 100+ manifold is a 2x4 dual quad intake w/ a custom fabricated box on top, the grooves and cover are simply the top chopped off a std. TPI intake welded on top. Too bad I can't find close up pics of it.
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; 11-19-2009 at 05:29 AM.
01-19-2010, 10:29 PM
#43
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
this is just my 2 cent guess but that looks like it might have been a C4 vette prototype manifold of some kind. That slope down in the front looks like it would match up to the hood lines.
02-02-2010, 01:26 AM
#44
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Did you ever get this installed on your 350? If so, how does it run? Sure with we could findout how it flows vs the mini-ram, SR, holley stealth....ect. 
08-04-2010, 12:13 PM
#45
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
bump
08-04-2010, 07:26 PM
#49
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
Very very nice! 2 bad there isnt more of them..... It looks like a very nice intake..
Last edited by TTOP350; 08-26-2012 at 10:36 PM.
08-05-2010, 03:44 AM
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Re: That "prototype" manifold...
If I remember right there was little article at -89 HRM Gm planned 290hp version of 5 liter engine.At that article picture was similar intake that yours.