I had to look up the R4 Scroll. didn't know it was a thing. it would definitely be nice to have a reliable direct bolt on. I do see people on other boards saying they don't cool well at idle thou. which kinda sucks cause south tx but also, I don't know that I'll find myself driving this car around in the middle of the day rush hour to need max cooling. Just something to help at night and defog the windows. it might be the ticket.


I agree I don't like the sanden taking up a ton of room and still being a cycling type compressor but they have brackets without making things fit, so that's nice.

years ago on my 91 z28 I put a used v5 off a 4 cyl s10 on it. Just some badly made homemade tabs stuffed in the R4 bracket but it cooled very well. back then I had a old Gen 6 accel dfi that didn't like the cycling compressors. no inputs for ac to adjust idle. so it worked great and cooled very well for what it was. but it was ugly and the compressor leaked a bit so it all got tossed. I still play with the idea of making one work on this car, preferably download with a smog pump used to be and leave the top cleaned up but even if in the stock location, hopefully doing a better job of it and making my own hoses.

 

sadly I don't have any pics from back them of the bracket mod but if you zoom in at the top of this pic you can see it installed.

 

Wasn't sure if I wanted to add this to this post or the brushless fan conversion thread I have over in cooling...decided on here.

I have found a nifty relay setup.



A little pricey, but not necessarily once you factor buying 4 quality relay setups with connectors. Plus the ease and clean install are worth it I think. One channel has a 40 amp limit and the other 3 are 20 amp. All through auto reset These are all still too low for use with the brushless fan but I have other low amp items needing wired currently.

Heated Narrow Band o2 Sensor
A/C Clutch Relay
Digital Fuel Pressure Gauge

My A/C blower motor I have a newer unit from a Yukon(?) along with a Express Van Blower Resistor Assembly with built in blower motor power relay.

Looking at the reviews it seems most people who have had bad experiences are trying to run high amp fans from it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that is likely not going to end well.

MSD has a similar product at MSD pricing as well... https://a.co/d/g2E284k

 

Well I either have a electrical issue somewhere or a failed ECM.

If you recall last weekend I drove it into town to meet family for lunch and came out an hour later and started it up. Had a unstable idle. Backing out of the parking spot it died, partially my fault due to it being a manual car and a dummy in the parking lot causing me to react quick to stop. Restarted and the idle seemed stable. Once I pulled out of the business onto the street I instantly had severe jerking with what sounded/felt like someone flipping a switch on and off to the ignition/fuel. Check engine light popped on as well. Once going down the road out of town 55mph it was better. Still had a SES. Turned laptop on (I hadn't been logging) to see what code it was while heading home and it was Map Low Code 34. The three lights were on at that time but not on later in the drive. Came and went it seemed like. Pulled over closer to home and unplugged and plugged in the MAP connector to make sure it wasn't a connection issue. Still same symptoms when I pulled out of that parking lot. Got it home and ordered a new MAP.

Fast forward to last night the new AC Delco MAP came in. Installed it and started the car. Idle was decent but AFRs seemed higher than shouldve been on a cold start with the tune I was running. It had no SES light and only the far right "stored" code in the WUD. I thought I would flash my most recent BIN in it and I got an error message when doing so. This was while the car was running and WUD was actively operating normal. I usually don't have issues doing it that way. Thought that was odd so shut the car off. Turned the key to on and looked at the WUD. No data, the active "data" indicator was spinning, and it still wouldn't flash a BIN. Looked at the SES and it was flickering very rapidly and dimmer than normal. Unplugged battery connections and reconnected and still the same. Pulled ECM fuse and reinstalled as well as unplugged ECM harness connections and reconnected.

Not really sure what to think of this. Seems like a odd sequence of events. Fuel Pump does still prime as well at key on.

 

might email dynamics efi directly. I had some questions before buying mine that I haven't installed yet (ugh) and he replied very quickly with what seemed like good answers.

while he's pretty active on the board here still, I feel like he's drifting away from the project as everyone goes obd2 ls stuff. so I'm not sure how much he checks here.

I don't know anything about your version and very little about the one I have lol. but maybe worth checking that everything in the ecm is still plugged in well? they seem to have extra boards and stuff added to the ecm.

 

Yep I emailed Bob first thing before posting. Hopefully here back from him Monday.

I might just pull the ECM and drive over to my dad’s house. I have my old K5 Blazer TPI swapped and running EBL. I shared computers between them anyways so I can hook it up and see if it communicates properly or not. If it does then it’s my wiring. If it doesn’t then it’s the ECM.

 

hopefully it's not the ecm. seems good it still runs atleast.

 

It now doesn’t run. After installing the new MAP last night it started up but was idling lean (was running pig rich last weekend when it first started acting up).

Once I shut it off is when things went haywire with no sensor data and it not starting. It spits and sputters like it wants to try starting. Likely trying to run off the memcal backup?

Whenever you flash a new bin while it runs it runs off that for a few seconds, which sometimes they run sometimes they don’t depending on setup. Mine would barely stay running during flashing. Way it’s always been with my EBL during flashes. Further away from stock was the worse it got in that regard.

 

ahh. I didn't realize. yeah that sucks.

hopefully he replies with something to try.

 

Verified it is the ECM that is shot. Same symptoms when hooked up to harness in my Jimmy. Wish I had purchased a second EBL Flash years ago when I was running both vehicles more regularly. I had always just swapped them back and forth.

I am going to pull the ecm apart tonight to see if there is anything obvious wrong with it like a bad solder or something. I am hoping the ECM is repairable. If not, I guess I will have to purchase a new one.

 

hopefully it's something you can find. atleast he still sells the ebl flash. I think I got one of the last ones of the p4. if mine goes I'd be in trouble haha.

did he ever reply to your email?

 

No response as of yet. Even tagged him in the EBL thread. I looked over the ECM board and EBL board last night and didn't see anything that screamed out at me as having failed. No burnt components or corroded solder points. Granted I am not super familiar with circuit boards and inspecting them...

 

Trying to think of contingency plans if I can't end up getting this ECM repaired or even replacements...

In the past I have been drawn to the Sequential Fuel Injection route and converting to 0411/LSx based EFI control systems. But man that route is pricey no matter how you slice it. Right now that route would not pass the wife approval seeing as she has been pushing hard for a pontoon boat purchase.

I see FiTech has a TPI standalone computer system. About double the cost of a new EBL Flash...a little easier pill to swallow I guess and more likely to get wife approval.


What really sucks is no matter which route I go, I technically need to do the same or similar to my TPI converted Jimmy seeing as it runs EBL Flash as well and I only had the one ECM... Granted that truck has been sitting for years and isn't in any immediate need of being operational.

 

Well I was able to find a decently priced replacement EBL Flash. Fingers crossed all is well once I get it and hook it up. At least this way I will have a working ECM for the Jimmy if I ever go a different route on the Trans Am.

 

that's nice.. going to be a shame when these go away completely.

a tpi Jimmy sounds like a nice. setup. I always wish they would have put tpi in trucks instead of the tbi.

 

Cars up and running again. Come to find out, the original MAP error code was a real issue with the MAP wiring. Without fully removing the harness I couldn't verify what exactly was the cause. But the wire that supplies 5V to the MAP sensor did not have any voltage to it. Per the wiring diagram it should be tied into the TPS 5V wire as well. The TPS had 5V so I was able to tie into it and fix the problem. Replaced the MAP sensor connector while I was doing so to fix a broken retaining clip. Had to pull the plenum to get to it all.

While I had it in the garage I started to replace the blower motor since I had sourced a new unit from a newer Tahoe. But I will need longer screws to mount it due to the thickness of the rubber gasket setup it uses. I will also be wiring up a new fan speed resistor setup from a Express Van that has a built in high speed relay. Will have to modify the air box where it mounts to fit the new one. After the unexpected expense of purchasing a replacement ECM I will probably postpone the AC rehab and brushless fan setup till next spring. We are almost "over the hump" of summer heat anyways at this stage and it isn't like I daily this car.

My next to-do is finishing the blower motor & resister stuff and then probably installing the heated o2 sensor setup to be able to give closed loop tuning a wack.

 

I had a injector wire go bad in a harness years and years ago. it only failed to fire if you launched like at the drag strip. burn a piston over it before I realized what it was.


glad you found it. did you try the old ecm after fixing the harness, or you think it's still dead. I hope it's not a harness short that took it out? maybe it killed the 5v supply mosfet?

curious to see what you come up with the blower setup.

 

I am still pretty confident the old ecm is dead, but could toss it in real quick to check still since I have the passenger side all apart with new ecm still laying there. I wouldn't think the 5v mosfet going bad would act like this but I am far from a PCB/Electrical expert.

Had a little bit of time last night to piddle with the car. I found some longer screws for the blower and got it mounted. Will need to extend the motor vent hose as it is pointing a different direction now. I've got a game plan for the blower resistor setup but need to put that plan in place. Will machine an adapter out of aluminum sheet. That way the slightly wider factory hole will be sealed up and then can cut out the pattern for the new hole. Wiring is straight forward, it will clean up the blower motor area of the HVAC harness for sure. Of course the aftermarket connector harness I purchased has all white wires. Dumbest thing ever, idk why the aftermarkets have decided that is a good idea besides money savings. I will probably reuse the old relay to power the heated o2 sensor. I have a spare 12v key on supply right there coming out of the EFI harness to trigger it.

 

yeah, probably not just the 5v since you couldn't flash the ecm with a new tune either. Just more curious than anything.

I forgot to ask why you're swapping to a different blower. is it more powerful? I think some of them are brushless these days and I kinda thought would be cool to change the blower switch to a **** that adjusts pwm like say from a servo tester or something. have infinitely variable blower speed haha and maybe a little more powerful. but I never looked into it.

 

It isn't really a "different" blower necessarily. Same form factor, bolted right up in the same spot. The old one needed replaced, I read somewhere that the ones from a mid 00's Tahoe fit and thought to myself "maybe it has more CFM". I read about the blower resistor from Express Vans in the same post. Figured if anything it is a nice way to simplify wiring.

Last night I bolted up the blower and started looking at the resistor mounting. Made a template in cardboard that I will transfer into aluminum sheet and then size up to cover the old hole. Thought I had some left over laying around but couldn't find it. Will try and get some today.

I forgot to mention I messed up while I had the valve covers off Sunday. I was trying to install the PCV and vent grommets I had purchased that have a baffle. Drilled the drivers side valve cover larger to fit the 1.25" diameter grommet and went to install the valve cover only to realize the grommet is so tall it would hit my rocker girdle...so now I have a drilled out 1.25" cover with no grommet that fits and still no solution to baffle the oil from getting into the intake and burned.

 

that's a nice little looking resistor pack. Hopefully the new blower is an upgrade. these ac systems could use more flow forsure.

you might try one of the Amazon catch cans. I use them on my ls stuff, pretty popular on the boards. 30$ and they catch a lot of oil. as for a grommet that fits, I got nothing haha

 

Do you have a link to the catch can? I see several on there. I've got grommets on the way that should work for me.

No big updates. I did properly install my radio with a flush mount kit. Replaced the bad RCA cable going back to my sub amp. Pretty sure the amp is on its way out or just needs tore apart and cleaned. Seems like it has dust or something causing sound issues when adjusting settings on it. No huge loss there, it is a cheap BOSS amp that is at least 12 years old. Not really top of my priority list to do anything there.

 

I've got one on my 6.0 yukon and my buddy has one on a c5 zo6. both stop a good amount, popular on the Tahoe boards. they catch a lot but these ls engines did away with pvc valves, they just suck from the valve cover slightly baffled full bore. so you might not catch as much with the pvc valve inline.

EVIL ENERGY Baffled Oil Catch Can,Oil Separator Catch Can 300ml Universal Aluminum Black https://a.co/d/eUKCH3U

seems well made for the price.

 

Yep that's the one I was eyeing. Ordered it up.

 

@??? Where does the ball of metal (like a metal scotch brite pad) go in that baffle? Read the directions and it didn't mention it once. The ball is too large to fit in the little cap with all the holes drilled in it that screws to the underside of the top where the "IN" comes in to the cup.

Edit: Watched a video online. I guess they supply more than needed and it needs cut down to size for fitting in there. Seems like a good way to spread metal shavings...

 

yeah it goes in that small screw off chamber. I ended up having to cut it in half to fit. Just when you cut it, make sure you get any of the small pieces that could fit thru the holes out before stuffing it in.

some guys say they didn't need to. but I did, being China stuff maybe they send different sizes sometimes? that's what the oil sticks to when the air goes by, without it you don't catch much.

 

10-4

I'm buying some hose today while in town to get it finished up. The supplied hose wasn't long enough for my setup, which isn't to their fault at all. I ended up mounting it on my DIY cold air box at the drivers side battery tray.

Does your other valve cover have a vent or anything? Currently my other valve cover has a hose that goes to the pre-throttle blade side of my throttle body. I am going to have to set it up with the same style baffle grommet too I believe. Although it should primarily be a "air in" location right?

 

so catch can routing is a bit of a rabbit hole, but yes clean air inlet after the filter but before the throttle body on one side is normal, the vacuum side sucks the air that gets by the rings and stuff out, filtered by the catch can and metered by the pvc valve.

now you can complicate all that when the throttle is wide open, and there's no real vacuum to suck the air out of the crank case. at that point in this setup, yeah. you can blow oily air back out the clean side.

few ways I've seen that handled, is just vent the other valve cover to open air, but you can usually smell it. on a maf car it can mess with tuning, especially newer ls engines that don't have a pvc valves to meter the vacuum, they run full
​bore but you have a pvc valve and map so that's probably the easiest way to do it. small k&n filter on it or a 2nd catch can. there's also a more expensive way I used on my c6 maf car, something called a clean air separator. it replaces the oil cap with a aluminum housing with mesh in it to catch oil under wot and runs to the same intake tube before throttle body.

https://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/...oil-separator/


you can also go more expensive with a 3 port catch can with check valves. that adds a 3rd port and runs to a 2nd port added in the air tube before the throttle body where the air speed is high. so at wot when you have no intake vacuum to pull air thru the catch can, the check valves switch over and the air flowing by the intake tube at high speed make a vacuum and it becomes your vacuum source for the catch can.
​​​​

is any of this necessary? probably not if your engine is fairly tight. my ls3 like most ls engines eats oil when run hard with a lot of engine braking. so I went over board haha.


here's my 3 port and clean air separator on my ls3 car. you can see the extra air duct port and 2 check valves on the exit side of the can.





my 3rd Gen I don't have any of this but I also haven't put more than 50 miles on it since built, it still the stock style setup. I'm sure I'll dig into it once I get it driving around. gotta quit working on my other stuff and make time to get the ebl installed already.

 

I might just get one of these types of deals to try to help with oil intake from that location.

 

that looks perfect if it's even a little bit of baffling inside and can't beat the price.

 

I should probably put this over in your fan post, but this tab was still open.

they oem brushless are starting to get more support. Just saw a youtuber using these mounts for existing shrouds.

https://warrperformance.com/product/...rado-pwm-fans/

seems pricey but nice idea

 

Pretty cool, but I agree definitely pricey.

Funny you mention fans, the last two times I've driven the car my fan has been acting very finicky. Couple Saturdays ago I had it try to overheat on me as I got into town. I went to jumper my main power relay to force it on and soon as I moved the relay it activated. Then Friday evening after work I went on a beer run and it was acting like my high speed was the only speed working. Would creep up to about 199 then have a heavy power draw and creep down to 190. Was behaving like the low speed wasn't working. I think it is just time to bite the bullet and purchase the brushless setup. I've already got the PWM Controller in hand that I mentioned in my fan thread. So would just need the fan assembly, some wiring changes, and then whatever modifications to the shroud to get it to fit.

Reason I drove it Friday was to try out my IAT relocation. I ordered a 3' extension harness and moved it into my air filter box. Temp read about 75-80 the whole drive (ambient temp). Then when I got home I let it stay idling for a few minutes and it very slowly was creeping up into the 90s. Which is understandable. Look forward to adjusting tune to work with new location to see if it solves my lean heat soak issue I was having.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322174230288

Heres the extension I purchased. Well built and well worth the money.

 

it's so hard to find good quality relays and contactors these days. I like the idea of your main power cut for the ebl to control, but maybe it would be easier to cut the power to the pwm box? or run an input thru a relay to open it and have it default to off?

only thing I don't like about the pwm fans is if the ecm isn't controlling it directly, you're relying on aftermarket electronics to not leave you stranded. I don't think it's possible to jump a wire to get home. but it is what it is.. I'd still do it haha.


i hope you fixed the heat soak. that's the worst for tuning. I remember with 8d forever ago, it made it worse anytime I tried it. car wouldn't even start half the time. I think more is known about it now, and ebl is better too. but man it was annoying. 8d was a great driving os thou when it was right.

looking back I should have put the stock sensor back in the mainfold and just ran the stock numbers. my car was basically stock back then, but I as hung up on moving the sensor and using the "better one" when the factory already had it figured out.

​​​​​

 

True, that is definitely a negative to PWM control. There is no "fail-safe" option to get home. The good news is as long as I can get on a highway, the car does decently well at maintaining temps with just the air dam airflow. Would be screwed in town or on a hot hot day though.

I am definitely rethinking my main power relay setup now that I am having these issues with my current main power relay. Depending on the controllers power usage, maybe I could have the ECMs negative fan trigger wire ground the controller which would then turn it on? Worst case I could do as you said and have the ECM trigger a low amp relay to activate the controller 12v supply. Going either route I could have the ECM trigger fan at say 165* then the controller setup to activate fan around 175* with high speed activated at 190* or with AC. The ECM would trigger the fan to come on regardless of temps with the AC as well so the controller would be on in a scenario where AC was on but coolant temps were below 165*.

 

that would be ideal as long as the ecm could handle the load of the ground. might want to test the amp draw just incase. I have no idea what the ecm can handle, but it's gotta be atleast a what a 12v relay is.
​​​​

totally different box, car and ecm, but I just added. a small ebay pwm box to my c6. I put a newer pwm alternator on it from the new trucks. used on ebay the alts low mileage ones are 100-150$. 220amp output and some new 6 diode thing they are calling a hair brush regulator. they charge amazing at idle. I can pull a 100amps from it with a underdrive crank pulley at 700rpm. the 140amp I took off couldn't handle a stock setup at idle haha, which was reason I went brushless fan on it in the first place, was trying to lower the amp load at idle with the ac on in 110deg heat, it wasn't enough haha. but anyways, it needs a pwm to control the output voltage, so one of the little adjustable 10$ ebay one is used. the alt like these fans I believe needs a 5v square wave, this little box outputs whatever you run it off. so 12v in you'd get a 12v pwm out, which might be to much for long term use. so for a 5v source, the L terminal on the stock alt is turned on by 5v from the ecm, I tried to power the pwm from that 5v source and it just couldn't do it. it would light up and come on. but display was dim and the output would read with my meter but not when you plugged it into the alt. to much load guess, I had to order a little 12v to 5v step down off a keyed 12v tap and then it worked great.

in fact, it could be a handy little bypass override type thing, toss it in the glove box with the right plugs, it will output 0-100dc at whatever you need. probably never needed but if you ever decided to road trip the car for some reason, like a power tour deal.

 

Something like this?

 

yep, that's exactly what it was, but mine was the older style with a little **** on it. I bought it over a year ago but had just been running the alt in default mode, hadn't wired it in haha. I like the newer button one better.

there's a huge thread about the alt over on ls1 tech. they have a circuit drawn up for Arduino control as well for closed loop control if needed.

 

Interesting. I really need to look into more alternator myself. I am running a factory replacement serpentine alternator. Currently with fan on high I sit around 12.7 volt idle / 12.9v cruising and 13.0v fan off idle / 13.2v cruising.

 

if it fits, I don't know what brackets you have, but I can get some measurements of you want. I currently have it off the car very slowly doing some 8-4-1 concept headers on it.

they default to 13.7v at the lug without anything hooked up at all. don't even need ign switch power. I talked to Optima battery, well email and just picked a middle voltage of their recommendation at 14.5v at the battery terminal since I don't have a feedback circuit but they will run all the way up to 15s if needed.

10% = 11.0 V20% = 11.56 V30% = 12.12 V40% = 12.68 V50% = 13.25 V60% = 13.81 V70% = 14.37 V80% = 14.94 V90% = 15.5 V

 

What vehicle was it off of? And what vehicle are your accessory mounts from? Wonder if it has any relation to the CS144 that a lot of people upgrade to. I know brackets can be done for that, I am sure something could be done for this as well.

 

it's off newer, like 2020 and up full sized trucks with a towing package. I have the part number somewhere. there's a 180amp one as standard, this is the optional one. same price same size case. may as well pick the better. they call it hairbrush, since the regulator heat sink fens look like a hair brush

from what I read at some point the old tech alt couldn't keep up, so they redesigned this one with six diodes, more amps at idle and less ac ripple.

it's the standard case and mounting bolt size all the way back to the 96 trucks. I don't know that I fits without mods in our stock brackets thou, it's got the 2 long thru bolts, my memory is crap, but I wanna say 5.5in bolt spacing? something like that, my c6 and a few years of 5th Gen camaros used the wider spacing, so I had to do some mods. but it was worth it. solid alt, I think you could run the newer electric power steering off it if you ever wanted lose some accessories up front to make for a turbo build

 

there's other 220amp part numbers but this is what I bought.

13534128 oem gm number. sure you can get. one at any parts store, I just got a cheap used off ebay because I wasn't sure I could modify it to fit.

 

Looks like they can be had for about $100. Seems worth the chance for test fitting. Heck I wouldn't be too afraid just to run it at the default 13.7v. Wouldn't be any worse than what I've been getting lol.

 

are your brackets the same as the 90 brackets? since I the car sitting there and the alt off, let me take some pics. now I'm curious haha.

 

Yep. I am running late model serp brackets.

If it is same mounting as the 96ish trucks, it is likely same as the AD244 alternators.

Heres a guy that converted to one of those. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...onversion.html

 

yeah that looks exactly like it. I'll try to sit it in there tonight or tomorrow if I get a min. but I'm thinking from the pics it will fit. I did have to clock it for my c6 and it's a bit of a hassle to clock, had to clearance some fins inside. but by that thread looks like it might be perfect.

nice.

 

so yeah, just like that thread. the 220amp will drop right in.

so I actually have 2, one 220 and a 180amp they sent me. same case but tad different in the alt lug setup. the 220 I got off ebay had pics of some cracks in the back plastic. I didn't care at all, but when it showed up the plug itself was broken so it wouldn't click in. I emailed them was like hey can you send me another regulator off one without a broken plug?
​​​​​ they said we'll just send you another one. the next one showed up, it was in good shape but the 180amp and had the clutched pulley I didn't want incase it needed to change pulley. so I emailed them back, said I'll just keep the first and make it work, you want this 180amp back? they said keep both and we will refund the money.
​​​​​​so tonight I pulled out the 180 because I haven't clocked that one like I had to the 220 for the ls3 bracket.

the 180 drops right in, gives me plenty of room for everything. I'll just use that one but since I have it but you should get the 220. I'll show in the pics, but the 220 power lug gives you the option to stick upright, or you can pull the back cover and unbolt that 90* and hook up if needed for wiring to look better. would need a small spacer or a few washers but should be good.

​​​​​​



belt lines up(yeah it's cracked lol) might need a touch longer thou, didn't bolt it up yet to check.


this 180 lug I'll remove the spacer and cut down just so it looks nicer



the 220amp is nice thou, the 90* is an adapter that just unbolt.



all in all, for a 100$ just leaving it unplugged running default for a while on my c6 worked great. I think it is a perfect 3rd Gen update and if you want, that little pwm box will tell it to run at any voltage you want. Just needs one wire to that 2 pin terminal. the other pin is a return pwm signal to the new ecm's of what load it's under for idle correction.

 

Sweet. Guess I will add it to the list!

 

Welp I've ordered a used alternator, new genuine fan assembly from the C7 Corvette, and a fan connector.

@??? When you ran the alternator as default voltage, did you have to have anything connected to the two wire harness or just the main power cable?

 

nope, needs nothing but the big power lead to the battery. I did have a plug in it to keep dirt out since I wanted to control it at some point. but not needed.

decided not to try the Cruz fan was it? the c7 will definitely keep it cool. thing is crazy good.