A member of the 1st Gen site I belong to is now the Technical Editor of Camaro Performers magazine. He was asking members for pics of their cars for the magazine. I asked about 3rd Gens and was surprised by his response.

See the thread here.

My post is #24 and his response is post #27. I don't understand since there are plenty of members here with very nice cars, so send him some pics and let's get some more visibility for these cars!

Mods- this seemed the most appropriate place for this. If not, feel free to move it.

 

Not surprising that that is the general opinion of third gens. If not this mag,then another camaro mag, had another guy's car featured many times (who can be found at this site but i forget the name of) but at the same time, put down third gens.

I think they're all jealous of how dead sexy the 3rd gen body style is. Otherwise, i dont know why they would alienate 10 years and a whole portion of (usually) young (less than 40) potential readers of such a niche magazine.

Just doesn't make sense.
camaros:
fist gen had less than 700k cars
second had almost 2 million
third had about 1.5 million
fourth had less than 700k

So, if anything, they're mentally retarded for not catering to the two largest gens of the camaro, with lots of features on the 4th gen since a large portion of the small production numbers are still in use.

 

His comments force me to believe that he's clueless about thirdgen Camaros (not a cool thing for a man in his position). Perhaps you should have linked him to this site.

JamesC

 

James- I'll do that. Yours is the type of car that would be a great feature for that magazine.

 

I appreciate your comment. The fact remains, however, that there are many, many rides on this site that would make fine contributions to ANY magazine.

JamesC

 

I have a bad@$$ pic of my 91 vert out front of the headquarters building for the 509th bomb wing, home of the B-2 spirit stealth bomber. I actually parked in the General's spot for it. I'll put it up soon as I get a chance.

 

they seem to be into third gens now...we are having a big cruise in nyc next month and they might be comming out to cover it and feature a few of our cars it seems...

 

Steve is a stand up guy and no doubt if he finds a nice thirdgen, he will put it in the magazine.

 

Steve is a great guy and more than willing to help anyone he can, from the other boards we both frequent. From what I have seen, it is a matter of location that holds back a lot of nice cars from being shot for magazines. If your willing to travel it will make it much easier.

 

if you read there last 3 issues theres plenty thirdgen coverage.

 

pfft, first gen owners...

 

We have to know that they like any other media will "cater" to the masses. You don't see playboy with ugly girls in it because it wouldn't sell. Or atleast I wouldn't but it... So, Camaro Performers is going to feature the hotter generation(s) typically. It's up to us to outshine 1st gens, etc if we want to sway the masses. Tall task, hell yeah but there are a bunch of us who gave it a shot

 

yea, but more to the point. Who buys playboy anymore? Magazines are gonna have to offer something better than just pretty pictures if they want to justify charging for content that people can find at better quality and bigger quantity online on sites like this one. I've yet to see any (related to our cars) that are more than glorified advertisements for jegs and friends.

 

Speaking of times..have you seen jegs and summits catalog sections for TPI etc? 90-95 percent is LT1-LSx....oh well. My wife contacted Super Chevy a year or two ago and started talking to them. When I found out I put the kaibash on it because I wasn't even near finished. Now, I'd KILL to have the team from Performers or Super contact me. Oh well. We (all of us interested) need to send polite, professional emails to those teams if we want to get the spotlight on some of our cars. Its the only way. I don't think any of them are going to say, "Hey, lets feature that twin turbo camaro/firebird" over a LSx equipped 1st gen or a 502 supercharged 2nd gen. Just my

 

I agree with that. That is why the lack of 3rd gen coverage in some of the media still seems surprising to me. With the values of 1st gens increasing dramatically over the last few years, it's hardly an enthusiast's car that is practical for the masses anymore.
If there was ever a Camaro that is fairly easy to modify (ever tried to pull an engine out of a 4th gen vs a 3rd gen? ), offers great handling, old enough to begin to be collectable and a decent investment but new enough to still find many parts, and affordable to the masses (the average working Joe), it's the 3rd gen Camaro.

 

One of the problems I see is that 3rd and 4th gen owners follow one specific path for EVERYTHING. The bad thing is, anytime someone steps outside of that path, the results often end up looking like crap.

Another bad thing about third gens is that they are still built "old school". Meaning horribly pieced together engines, a stock transmission and stock rear. Then a set of 15 inch cragers are slapped on and the car is considered done. Until things like that go away and true upgrades are made, we will still be given little to no coverage.

 

I know this thread is a little old, but think about it guys. Most 3rd gen cars have been abused and reused. There wasn't a plentiful amount of muscle cars around when the 3rd gen was on the road unlike when the first gen cars were, so therefore I personally believe they took a harder beating. Making for fewer and fewer magazine worthy cars on the road, really how many of us would consistantly buy a magazine or suscribe to it if all they featured was P.O.S cars? 0. All he is saying that 3rd cars in magazine worthy conidtion are getting harder and harder to come by. Here in my town I have been noticing fewer 3rd gens in any kind of condition riding around it seems like the numbers drop every summer. Personally I like the performers magazine because I like all f bodies 1st gen to 4th and there is usually some very very good info in them. I dont know if any of you have noticed this trend of decreasing numbers where you live, but be thankful that we do have somone in the magazine industries that will put our cars in the spotlight. Maybe one day Ill have a car worthy of printing.

 

i just read this thread and all i have to say i love our thirdgens even if the magazines dont acknowledge them all i need is thirdgen.org and austinthirdgen.org but from what ive seen here in austin thirdgens are on the rise

 

well around here were i live, there's LOTS of muscle cars on any sunny weekend cruising around. and yes about 10-15 years ago, there was a good amount of nice thirdgens too. then for a while u hardly saw any, and the ones you did see, were real **** boxes. but the last 2 0r 3 years there's been alot of guys putting some $$$ into these cars, and now there's some really nice head turning thirdgens around here. form perfect condition bone stockers to wild weekend warriors. so right now, yes, these thirdgens are starting to get alot of respect, i think its because the guys that were younger 16-30 back when they made these cars, either had one back then or really wanted one. now those same people are 30-50+ and have the $ to have and build nice thirdgens again. same history happened with the first gens. back in the late 70's to early 80's most 69 camaros you saw driving around were 99% rust. now look at them.

 

thirdgen's around here are basically yard decorations, or badly beaten one's that people get to drive till it dies then they junk it.. i can count the number of good looking thirdgen's on 1 hand... i think that if someone from any chevy magizne came on this board and looked at the car's on here.. they'd have enough story's to go for at least a whole year if not more.

 

I think 3rd gens are constantly overlooked in general, hell I think Pintos get more attention sometimes. Its pretty sad actually.

But if third gens suck that much, how come when I took mine out this summer, I had a couple of guys stop and try to buy it from me in less that 10 minutes.
To me, that says there is a demand for them still.

 

demand has been increasing. there's been about a dozen or so in barrett jackson in the last couple yr's. i remeber one was not even stock it was a 87-89 gta, about 40k miles, and a few bolt on's. went for 35k or around there.

 

I personally love the 3rd gen body style... I think it is one of the sharpest looking sports cars still. And when you drive around in a respectable looking 3rd gen during the summer I can agree with the people above, you almost always get compliments on how nice your car looks and I've even got the "are thinking about selling that?" lol... i just laugh and say no. As for the lawn ornament cars, and the beaters.. i just see those as cars that will not last and make mine a more desirable automobile.

 

Bandit and James you two nailed it.

He obviously doesnt know much about thirdgens, because they were produced in HUGE numbers.

For the longest time there were too many of them, then hardly any, but now they are around and are really nice. When they were new, they were cheap and plentiful, so everyone had lots of nice ones. THen after they got used and abused, they were bought off by my generation (teenagers at the time, born in the 80s or 90s) for dirt cheap. No money to put into them, but they were loud smelly and fast. Now gettin more expensive to drive these cars, only people who can afford them, are people who can afford to keep them nice. Plus most of these "teenagers" now older, have new tastes, so they are keeping the cars.

As for the modifications, what the editor said, was valid maybe a decade ago. These were unibody, single exhaust cars, with very few mods available except for engine.

However, in the last 5 years or so, there are HUGE GROUND BREAKING mods on the market, from people who fabbed something and mass produced the idea.

Big blocks, 6 speeds, twin turbo, prochargers, independant suspension, full frames, nitrous, tube k members, fiberglass body parts, dual exhaust, the list goes on.

So although what made the muscle car era so great was the mentality and attitude back then with those cars, you also have keep up with the times. There are MANY MANY insanely modified thirdgens out there, and most of the ones being used as beaters are on their last legs.

So this guy has been under a rock for the last decade or so, and the magazing is probably gonna share that tone.

 

psssh i have a TT camaro and no magazine even looks twice at it for a feature article.

 

I to have noticed that the third gens in my area and all around texas have significantly dropped in numbers. it being in part by just people driving them. like all cars they always get wrecked totaled or w/e etc... Its like 2nd gens also. They had a million made but how many do you see on the road anymore... the only ones you see are early 2nd gens but other then that, the 78,-81 camaros were also abused. I do agree with the fact where someone said that teenagers of the 80's didnt have muscle cars of the 60s to abuse and use which was probably true because that generation, the baby boomers now had used them all up. I believe that during the mid 80s was when all the teenagers of that era used all the 78-81 zs and that is why you dont see much around today. If you have ever noticed, At the drag strip, all you ever see is 2nd gen camaros being used whether its a 1970 or an 81 or atleast at my track... my 2 cents

 

Thats not what i meant, but you are right too. I was referring more to price. When youre a teenager you have maybe $500-2000 to spend on a car (atleast i did when i was 16). Hard to get a car in that range thats older than a 3rd gen and considered a classic. Granted there ARE other cars that are (or atleast used to be cheap) like novas or skylarks, or whatever, but the thirdgen appeals to a wider range of enthusiasts. It can be considered a muscle car, or a sports car, and can even be highly modified to look like a........dare i say it....... import? (not my preference but its the truth).

Was a dirt cheap car to buy when i was a teenager and there were 100s of them to choose from.

In any case, alot of teenagers are still buying these cars, but alot of them are growing up and going new routes with the cars. They have either crashed them by now, or are babying them. Because the cars are aging, its harder to keep them alive by not doing anything. You actually have to maintain and take care of them. Which is why the ones you DO see are nice, or on their way to being.

 

I cant belive i got this thread fired up like i did when i responded to it. But online, your right those that are still out there are nice and in the process of beign nice once again, the rest are junked. I was mainly stating in my reponse where some folk were coming down Steve some, that at least we do have a supporter of the 3rd gens that is a editor of a great magazine.

 

heh its like I got alot of room to talk, I'm 16 and own one of these. Im not putting down anyone young or who was young but i know exactly where your coming from.
2k and thats what ive spent for a clean car and I have plans for it. I know what can happen when you speed, My brother was driving me in my dads 91 rs(25k miles) 3 years ago and was racing and wrapped it around a tree. amazingly it was a convertible and we didnt even get whiplash from it... I dont plan on ******* my car like every one else, don't have plans for racing or even speeding. just plan on crusing to carshows and what not :-)

 

Barret Jackson is the WORST source to use for car values. If you knew how many of those cars were illegally sold, or illegally bid on, it would make you cry. I personally think they should closed down. Bunch of lying thieves.

 

I have no doubt that Barret has given hobbyists a skewed vision of worth. However, please educate me about illegally sold/bid on etc.

JamesC

 

dude honestly, i was just making an example. ok, forget the well documented barrett cars.. look in youre local special interest classifieds, or e-bay. AGAIN- nice unmolested thirdgens have and are increasing in value.

 

I have to agree with this no matter what, They are increasing in value also because they are good cars. I mean the people with money dont wont to spend the time or money to work on them unlike the people who are willing to do so. also they prefer a car that hasn't been bugged with or abused and I dont blame them. For say my Iroc-Z was bought 2 years ago from the original owner for 7500$ all original/paperwork(41k miles) etc etc and now, the same car is worth atleast 10-12k on a good day on ebay if not more.all in all Me myself I don't mind building my own car. hell it gives you something to do.

 

don't forget your aftermarket parts... magazines are made on the ads you see in them. If a company sells a particular part chances are a vehicle to fit that part is somewhere in the magazine. thirdgen aftermarket is growing at such a slow pace that the cars will be gone before it ever takes off. early era fox body mustangs have mass aftermarket support and you see what happens to those cars in magazines.

lastly there really isn't alot of good true magazine cars that have all 5 aspects done. we all want to have our cars in print but we have to ask ourselves would someone who might not like thirdgens buy that magazine to see that car. if so then it should be in magazine. the only reason i ever submited my car was the compliments i received from people who can not stand thirdgens.

good luck.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/06/b...-in-westworld/

I just did a quick search for the phrase "Barrett Jackson shill bidding" on Google and that was one of the first links to come up. Doesn't go into great detail but touches on a few fishy things that go on. A more in depth search might give up some actual facts but I didn't go that far.

Whoa, chill out chief. I was just saying that BJ isn't a great indicator of what these cars should bring. Local cars in your area should be the only judge IMO. I have seen damn nice condition 91-92 Z28s going for cheap around Kansas City before and I have seen a 383 stroker Iroc sit for several months for less than $5000 without being sold.

I myself bought my 91 Trans Am for 3k which needed a few small things and a tranny rebuild. Then sold it about 4 years later for 2,000 only to buy it back for 2,500. With some cars, I just don't think a blanket value can be applied like a lot of cars.

 

Well Barrett Jackson caters to whom? The EXTREMELY WEALTHY!!! That is exactly why the cars go so high. You get two more money than sense guys bidding on the same car, well its going to be outrageous.

 

I think we are in some ways discussing separate issues. Magazine worthy and consumer value are not always the same thing--though they can be. Modding your car can actually detract from the value of the car when trying to resell it. the cars that I see that hang the longest on the classifieds whether its here or craigslist or the local paper are almost always those that have been modified. The reasons are often the same as we have discussed here: poorly executed, unfinished, done cheaply, etc. People also like to have a clean slate--either because they don't want it modified (keep it original crowd), or because they want a clean canvas for their own modifications and don't want to have to undo someone else work (and if it was bad work it can be a freaking nightmare). It takes a well executed vehicle to increase the value of the car.

on the other hand, magazines often like modified vehicles because they are "different" than your average run-of-the-mill car. in some ways the huge numbers our cars were produced in work against it right now--there are still lots of them around ( or people perceive that there are--perception is reality to many), and it takes something special to make the car stand out sometimes. And as Kandied mentioned, not all of our cars have all the parts finished--interior, exterior, suspension, drivetrain. Many here have focused on one, two, or even three aspects of the car. Those make great "readers rides". But for feature presentation, most mags want the full meal deal. There are three or 4 cars on here that I can think of that meet that standard (there may be more). The rest of us are somewhere along the road to that goal.

 

My 2 cents is that we just need to be a little patient when it comes to the public respecting our cars. Maybe we are just ahead of the times =) I mean, the 69 camaro was not always a classic. I'm sure that there were always people who loved and adored them, but it didn't always have the cult following that it has today. Who is to say that in another 10 or 15 or 20 years, people won't be drooling over the 89 camaro?? By that time, 3rd gens may be on the cover of all the magazines and the masses will have moved on to looking down their noses at the 4th gens, 5th gens, 6th, 7th, ect., ect.

The only thing that gives me pause on the subject is the new trend in the auto industry of producing brand new cars with an "old-school" style. You have the 5th gen camaros and the new mustangs and the new dodge challenger ... perhaps our time will be skipped over by people looking to these cars with the classic styling and the modern tech. Who knows? Only time will tell. In the meantime, I'm goin' out for a drive.