RTGTA

Hello everybody!
Just wanted to ask some opinions on my current situation. I have a 1989 IROC Z 350 T Tops, white on red, with 70 000 original miles. I paid 9000 last summer because it was simply the cleanest third gen I had ever seen in my price range. There is a guy interested in it offering me 9750. I have put maybe 250 into it not including insurance and fuel.
Now, I am looking at a 1991 GTA, black on black cloth, t tops, 305 5 speed. He is asking 7900 and it has about 87000 miles.
With my IROC I am scared to do anything aftermarket or custom to it as it is so original. Also, I have original window sticker, warranty papers, and other paper work (owner's manual, original dealer keytag, etc) where as the GTA doesn't have any of that and isn't bone stock original.
I am just looking on opinions on whether I should sell the IROC for the GTA, or keep it, or just general opinions. Thanks in advance!

Linson

quite the pickle.

on the one hand, white is not my favorite color for an IROC, and black is a very top shelf color for a GTA (or any Third Gen) if the paint is good. and i actually kind of like the looks of a 91-92 GTA over an 87-90 - seems less bulky by comparison. so, the GTA sounds nice. then again, you have a known quantity with the IROC, which also has the top engine for the line. then again, its not like the L98 makes for a much faster car than the LB9 package.

maybe you should post pics of both cars.

RTGTA

Current IROC. Should note it was a factory decal delete, no idea when the decals found their way on




Not the best quality picture. Pic was e mailed to me, told there's no rust and is a clean and straight summer only car

I'llrocya

I would say the second owner probably put the decals on. A few years ago I was looking at an 89 IROC that was decal delete, had I bought it the first thing I would have done would have been order the IROC decals. I just like it better that way, I think most do.

I'llrocya

You sure don't see that many GTA's in those years.

RTGTA

Agreed. And I always did like Firebirds more than Camaro's. The owner told me he only drove it once last summer and he's selling because he just doesn't use it enough.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Both beautiful cars, IROC will likely be more valuable with lower miles, docs and original condition, however the TA will be more fun to drive.

Personally between the two, I would pick the Camaro unless you could buy the TA for 8,000. Oh & ask 12k for the Camaro.

Linson

Well, white or not, that IROC looks nice - and its a known quantity + my guess is that it has led a more charmed existence overall than the GTA. What it really comes down to is whether your Dream Third Gen is an 89 IROC or a 91 GTA. Me - i prefer the "Formula" Firebirds. 89 is my favorite year for Third Gens, overall.

mmadden55

Keep the IROC and buy the GTA no reason you can't have two. Leave the IROC stock and mod the hell out of the GTA

87350gtanj

Both are nice the Iroc has more going for it with all the paperwork you have but the black on black GTA's are just stunning I have one and sold my white l98 GTA to keep it.

Javier87z28

iTrader: (1)

Black GTA is clean, if you having the itch to do some mods i'd sell the Iroc and do as you wish with the GTA. Just cant beat the color black on third gens lol

RTGTA

Actually I have it listed at $13 000 haha. To be fair it was appraised at $18 900.


I can't have 2 because my truck still needs to get paid for monthly lol.


I don't really have an itch to do anything huge, just would like to improve on some weak points.


Sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes.

Linson

Copy and paste the quotes you want to use, then highlight and "quote button" those quotes after you paste them.

Linson

On the face of it, i would tend to agree with those who lean towards just keeping the IROC which is a very nice bird in the hand. While 3rd Gen prices are on the rise, i personally don't see anyone here paying even in the ballpark of the $18k appraisal. BUT on the other hand i will share this beautiful truism:

I've had multiple hotrods/projects/toys for a long time. In spite of all these cars, the one i would always daydream about spirited driving in is an 89 Formula 350 with heads, cam, brakes, and other suspension and performance modifications (and a nice thick leather steering wheel for some reason). Now i have that car and it is still the car i daydream about when i'm driving my work vehicle...not my more valuable TTA, not my more iconic 67 Firebird, but my sleek, modified to my liking, 89 Formula 350. And now its always waiting for me in my garage - and it feels like a good thing.

demontransam89

that iroc is nice and it can only be bone stock original once Im having the same issue I have an 89 ws6 t/a bone stock 73000 miles Im the third owner I have every bit of paperwork including the window sticker and brochure from the dealer
I would like some more power but don't want to change anything drastic
but I may put some upgrades that may give a little more horsepower with out changing the look that's always an option I may be a little bias but I have always loved t/a's so I guess its what ever you dream about driving

RTGTA

I agree with the thought that this IROC is nice. It is very nice. I don't expect to get $18 000 in any sort of short time frame, but a bit over my original $ 9000 would be just peachy!
When I was younger (elementary and up to high school) I had always wanted a black and gold T/A with a manual trans. Of course a 77 SE TA was/is the absolute dream but I don't plan on spending $30 000 out of the gate. As much as I love the Camaro I feel like I'd get more enjoyment from the GTA as it's more of what I want.
Another issue with the IROC is that in its condition it's almost too nice to drive. When I drive it I am just wincing at the thought of something happening to such a clean survivor and with the GTA I think I will be able to enjoy it more.
Also, I just have to say all of your cars are unreal Linson! Love the Formy!


Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted as I go through this!

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

This is going to ruffle some feathers:

These aren't collector cars and at anytime you can find one for sale-low miles, high miles, stock, or modified. Any condition at any price you'll find a 3rd gen.

Even 'rare' 3rd Gens like Firehawks and 1LE cars appear for sale.

Notice I didn't mention 'rare' TTAs? Because at any time you can find several for sale. Usually e-bay has at least 2 at once in any condition. Hell, there' a Festival car with fewer than 10K miles less than a mile from my house.

There are thousands of these cars available. And unique RPOs are only important if a potential buyer has knowledge. Otherwise, the "my car is #X of XXX" (probably shoud've added at least 2 more zeros) doesn't matter.

Don't worry about the 'value' 'future value' or " low miles". In the collector car world both are high mile cars and won't demand a premium.

Have fun with either car this summer-that's what it's about.

Citation X

Go with your heart. If having one even with small mods would make you happier then by all means go with the gta. It sounds to me from reading your posts that you are leaning that way anyways.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Wow! While both are FINE cars the GTA in my opinion is a no brainer if I had to pick between the two. That 5spd LB9 has got to be some kind of fun to drive. I looked forever to find one near me and never did. I think you would enjoy the GTA a lot better and that's what its really all about

Topspeed

I have always been a Bird guy so you know which way I would lean towards. If you can't enjoy the camaro because you are afraid of something happening to it... What is the sense in having it. I spent a little shy of two years restoring my bird and spent more on it than what it is worth. At first I didn't want anything happening to it so I stayed in my garage, out of the sun, and away from anything that could ruin her looks. But after the first summer I relized that I didn't build her to be a garage queen, I built it to enjoy the hell out of it. I still keep her in the garage but I drive it as often as I can. Get the GTA... I think you will enjoy it more.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

89 350

iTrader: (1)

keep the IROC if your on the fence you will regret your decision either way, at least you already know what you got with IROC, you never know with the bird. Its hard to go against the GTA considering I am a Firebird guy good luck.

Barlow8869

iTrader: (1)

imo, i never liked the look of the front of the 91-92 birds or the gfx on the doors ... but also imo ... if you are keeping it for value, keep the iroc ... if not keep the one that has the most options you like in a car or what you think looks better ... my cars are not that nice, by far, but i just got one of each ... lol

MintWS6FORMULA

As a Bird Man, I'd think you're nuts if you sell the Camaro. The 5 speed won't make up for the 350 years down the road. Plus, the pre-91 GTA's were better looking than the '91/'92s. Formulas, OTOH, were the opposite!


The Camaro's not a daily driver if you keep it, so keep the Camaro and buy a 2nd less expensive 3rd gen to drive and to have fun in.


Oh, and BTW, 92's were rarer than '91s, so it's not like your debating over a '92 350 TA.

RTGTA

I have an update! The IROC is gone, and that night the buyer texted me saying the driver's window didn't work. I had looked at it before, swapped switches, and it worked. I gave 2 extras with the car and he said none worked on the driver's window. I would guess broken wire between body and door. He got the window down then it wouldn't go back up. Honest mistake on my part. That's why we say 'As Is'. He was quite rude about it so I didn't feel near as bad.
Anyways, looked at the GTA today. A few things set some flags off for me:
The fog lights didn't work
The nose had been painted, no GTA emblem on it, and a bad run line from paint work on one corner
Horn didn't work so he wired another button on the column
Close out panels under dash off due to gobs of wiring for aftermarket alarm
LOTS of wind noise on the passenger side
When he drove I watched the shifter jump out of 4th, when I drove I had no such problem. He was very gentle shifting so maybe it was not in fourth fully
Driver's door cup holder/map pocket was broken off. He has tried to plastic weld it but it didn't work so well.
And when driving I found the clutch pedal was almost all the way up before the clutch would engage so I imagine it may be getting a little thin.
And other than those things it was just basic third gen things such as the cluster separating and those type of things.
He is asking $7900, and said he has very little room to move from there. It was appraised at $8800 in 2009 so he figures $12 000 or $13 000 is appraised value now.
I am going to sleep on it but I think I am going to look at a 1999 Formula next weekend. Seems like a good deal but I guess I'll see.
And thanks everyone for the input, please feel free to give more.

RTGTA

Oh I forgot. With his appraisal I looked at the build sheet. 230 HP and 3.42. Definitely more lively than the IROC

79bluebird

Here are a couple near you that look really nice.Both have LT1s in them (the white one has motor and suspension upgrades) so they should be quite a bit faster than your IROC was. I spoke with the owner of the white one, he said it has a leaky rear main seal. If you know a mechanic (wink) you should be able to get it fixed pretty easily.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/c...ationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details....dId=1057216752

Is this the 99 you are going to view?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/e...ationFlag=true

RTGTA

Thanks for the heads up on the cars! Unfortunately, the mechanic I have in mind is a bit of an idiot from what I've been told. Clean looking car you've got though!

79bluebird

Thanks for the compliment on the car. I am sure I will love it once a few bugs are worked out. I have met the guy you have in mind, he is not an idiot I think he is a nice guy, he likely just made a bad call.

Is that silver one I posted the one you are going to look at? It looks pretty sweet. Make sure you check that white one out. - FYI the guy selling it mentioned $10,600 to me.

79BB

RTGTA

Yeah that silver one was one of them. I e-mailed about it. Still there is something so classy about a third gen though that I can't get away from

Linson

1) THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO RUSH INTO ANYTHING. So...ya know, keep that in mind.

2) so, i understand that you've sold the IROC. but what is unclear to me at this point is whether the car was sold for "Canadian dollars" or "U.S. dollars" and if the prices being discussed are/have been U.S. or Canadian dollars. also am not sure about the exchange rate. BUT, what i do know is that here in the U.S., both LT1 and LS1 4th gens are going for DIRT CHEAP right now. they are NOT appreciating in value because EVERYBODY HATES the body styles.

3) another unknown (on my end) is if there would be some sort of prohibitively expensive tax involved in importing a used car from the U.S. where i'm sure there is a deeper pool to choose from.

4) within about 2 months of getting my 3rd Gen ('89 Formula 350) on the road, i sold my full bolt on LT1 4th Gen ('96 Z28). i had grown tired of it's bulbous, plasticky body styling. there was/is something classy about a Third Gen (a nice Third Gen), but i don't mean champagne classy. whenever i drove it i would feel overcome by this attitude of "That's right, world - you don't see these around anymore. and oh, whats this? this one will tear a hole in ya."

5) it sounds to me like what you really want is a Third Gen Firebird. therefore, i would advise you to get a Third Gen Firebird or you'll regret it. and get the body style you want. if you want a 91-92, get that, and dont settle for anything else. if you want a 85-90, get that. you want a GTA, hold out for the right GTA. if what you really desire is a Formula, get a Formula. otherwise you will wind up regretting your decision. it actually sounds like you want a car that has been modded. if that is the case, i would hold out for a car that has been modded, OR a VERY NICE stockish car at a price that leaves you with money for mods. and speaking of modding, good mechanics are not easy to find. good, reputable shops that wont try and rip you off are even harder to find. dont just go looking for the cheapest labor rate.

hope all that helps.

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

It sounds like your price range is above $7k and at that price you could find 3rd gens with less problems than that GTA. Keep looking. The car you want is out there or will show up eventually.

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fire...ws6-trans.html

Here is a good example of what could be had by your price range. Would ask if it is road legal though. And I would wonder how it handles the streets.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

+1

Tell this guy to pack sand and keep looking. That GTA isn't worth the money. Maybe $4500 but not what he's asking. "not much room to negotiate' means he doesn't want to deal or has lost his *** by paying too much for it originally-which he wants to pass on to you. Personally, I think he'll have a hell of a time selling it at that price with all that's wrong/miles.

You can find better GTAs with 50-60K miles for less than his asking price. You got to look for them.

You sound set on a 3rd Gen. If you just want to go fast, I'd buy an LS 4th Gen car.

Keep saving your money and in the mean time search for a GTA you really want. You'll be happier in the long term.

Always buy the best car you can afford/find-you'll save money in the long run!

RTGTA

Thanks for all the input again guys! Really helpful. I am on the hunt and narrowed it down. Want an 87-90 GTA or Formula with T Tops. Either engine and trans is fine. Color doesn't matter. I thought maybe a hardtop but I use it for cruising and love having the tops out. Now the hunt/wait begins.


All my prices are CAD by the way. Also, I think after a certain age you don't have to pay to import the vehicle. I could be wrong though.

79bluebird

You may find this one interesting.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/f...ationFlag=true

RTGTA

Yeah I saw that one last night, I contacted the owner and got more pics. It's a digital dash, cloth interior, with an aftermarket stereo. The dash has a huge crack and there is some switches hacked in on the driver's knee bolster panel. That's all I noticed from pics. I would like to go look but that's a pretty far drive to just kick tires, y'know?
There is also 2 89 GTA's on kijiji right now, one in Grande Prairie and one in St Albert I think, both look very clean but neither have T Tops.
The hunt continues....

79bluebird

It's too bad the car is rough. I have a line on a nice 87 GTA _pic below, If I can get my fingers on it I will text you.

IMissMy86TA

I just have to chime in here..
Rare? the GTA is hell yeah rare! there were ONLY 164 5 speed GTAs made that year and yes 5-speed cars are desirable. specially stock.0 They will run with the 5.7s due to better cam and gears (3.42), the HP was 230 compared to 245 for the 5.7 of the same year. disk brakes and a hell-of-a-lot-more fun! just saying.. years from now that GTA if fixed up right will pull better money and look better than that IROC.

one of 164 GTAs.. think about that for a minute.. how rare is that? how many still exist?

http://gtasourcepage.com/91RPOFigures.html

79bluebird

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/c...ationFlag=true

IMissMy86TA

thats not the GTA high milage 5 speed TA. overpriced... yeah.

79bluebird

This is good, I'm learning about the differences between the Trans Am and the GTA.

And here is some learning for our American Friends. The Market price for these cars in Canada is significantly higher than in the USA as there are fewer classic cars available. Our dollar is weaker, its $1.23 to buy a USD so that affects our prices greatly.

Our Vehicles are in Kilometres not miles so a 100,000 KM vehicle is 62,000 miles.

I hope RTGTA can find a car he likes soon, our driving season here is short.

IMissMy86TA

I am in ohio is it is fairly short as well but not as short...
sounds like we can sell our cars well up there then

RTGTA

Update:
Heading into Edmonton tomorrow to look at a few birds. There is an 89 GTA, Red on Grey, Hardtop, 350 with 112 000 kms (70 000 mi. approx.) and also a 88 Formula 350, White on Red, hardtop, 350, with 178 000 kms (110 000 mi. approx.) I got the VINs from both and got RPO sheets at work - both are 3.27 with aluminum shafts and spares. Both seem pretty well equipped. Price difference between the GTA and the Formy is $4000 (GTA asking $9500, Formy asking $5500)
Wish me luck! And again, feel free to leave your 2 cents!

Linson

Post pics. Plentiful pics.

RTGTA

I went and looked today. Oddly enough I didn't take any pictures but here's the kijiji links.
88 Formula
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/e...ationFlag=true
Turned the key - roared to life, no blue smoke, no weird noises. Walked around while it was running - bit of rust bubbling around rear wheel wells but not too major. Spoiler cracked along top and on both mounting points. Got in, interior is in awesome shape. Went for a drive - pulls hard to the left, when braking it pulls very hard to the right. Warned about the brakes that they don't work well. Had to press very hard to get them to do anything. When looking underhood could see mouse nest under the plenum. Good project for sure, needs some love.


89 GTA
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/s...ationFlag=true
Walked into the shop and saw it - in absolutely beautiful condition. Started it up - had to crank a long time before it fired, suspect battery was discharged. Interior in mint condition except for the console side separating on the driver's side. Still has the cassette holder in the console. Looked underhood - clean as when new. Engine rebuilt by the seller's machine shop 2 years ago. Backed it out and looked in the light - spoiler cracked on top of mounts and down sides of mount, white stain running down from spoiler over tail lamp on driver's side, passenger side not running yet. Minor chip on front, few very very minor scratches, GTA and Gold Bird badges missing on sides. Paint rubbed off of skirting on driver's side from the door but the pins feel tight now. Took for a road test - has a lot of get up and go, no pull, brakes work properly. Pulled over and checked all lights - signals don't flash, one fog light out, all others working. Found foam weatherstripping on the corners of the doors is fallen apart. When turning around there was a very loud clunk/bang from the RF corner when turning to the right on the lock. Took back and then later worked on a deal - got owner to $8000.00. Should also add the radio was locked so I couldn't test the antenna.


I am unsure on where to go from here. Maybe going to try sleeping on it and see how it feels in the morning.

IMissMy86TA

Good luck. hard to figure out what a good deal is up on the great white north with miles/KM $/CN

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

GTA
$9500 Canadian which equates to $7816USD.
Said he talked them down to $8000 Canadian which is $6582 USD
70k miles


Formula
$5500 Canadian which equates to $4525 USD
110k Miles.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

The white over red Formula is a great looking color combo. TA sounds like a much better car however.

Not fans of T-tops up there huh?

IMissMy86TA

sounds like prices are going up... I paid 10K for 19K mile GTA 5 years ago.. wonder what mine would sell for up there in the great white north?