Yea true, but after a while of it not fitting you kind of just give up. I wasn't really up for cutting more because it would have required more welding to fix it

 

I can understand that, but you hurt exhaust flow at a critical spot and this will negatively impact performance.

 

Its alright, Im hoping not to have the headers for that long.

 

Alright every one, I finsished patching the floor and put some silicone on the cracks by the pinch welds, theres still a spot on the firewall that needs to be done, but Im going to worry about that later, I have to concentrate on getting the engine bay together so all I have to do when I get the fp reg is put it in and start it my only concern is finding where the wires go...mostly all, Im keeping the dash out until I am done with the firewall patch. For the seats I am probably going to get another 4th gen seat to match the drivers and then have them reapolstered to match the interior color, the carpet im reusing for now untill I get it started and replace the weather stripping for the t-tops. once it starts its going to the shop to make sure everything checks out. This surely is coming together, and I really hope theres no more damn fires

pics:
put the plugs in and sealed them

looks nasty but I'll clean it as best I can

and seats

 

I took the auto shifter plate since i dont have a manual yet and modded it to fit with the shifter. also putting the window switches in the trans selector slot

3rd

neutral

4th


where switches will be placed


i took the holder and cut the plastic so i could get the switches to fit and it looks like they were make for this



After I finish this up I'll get onto putting the rest of the interior together, as for the engine bay it will get taken care of during the week, Im trying to put of the wiring as best I can

 

Got my check!!!!! Fp reg and starter here I come

 

Dash install....again


I just came back from dinnerm Im going to let it settle down before I go and finish up the dash wiring and filling the tranny fluid. Ill post morew info throughout the night

 

Ok, everything that has to do with the dash is done, except of course fixing the steering column. Also the engine bay wiring is complete except for the starter and finding the coolant temp sensor wire, the fuel pressure should be here by Wensday and I'm working on the cosmetic body work, I was working on the passanger door after I finished up the other work. The was a nice size dent in it, it looked as though some1 dropped a pole on it and it went from small to big untill it hit the molding and just indented there. I also worked on the top part of pass quarter panel since the bottom half needs to be replaced yet. Bondo is a wonderful thing for small indents and some big ones.

Excuse the HUGE spot of bondo on the door, After pulling the dent out the best that I could I was still a very uneven so this is before sanding because I ran out of paper


Its 52*F not 25*



primed it, just to keep everything in place for now, if there more imperfections or fish eyes ill fix it, no big deal, just need to get moving if I want to be done for spring break, all help is welcome

 

No offense but why do all that hard work and then put dirty carpet back in your car? Worse case I would have steam cleaned it (2-3 times!!)...Best case I would have paid the $140 and put new carpet in.

 

I will be getting a new one for $120, when I get it done completely, So for now im working with what I got.

Besides that, I got my fuel pressure regulator, Ijust got home from hanging out at school to find this package on my desk, Wooo, now al I have to get are the fittings for the line and I should be good. Now I know that I'm definately starting it this weekend. Hopefully someone can help me with that, Kinda worried something going to go wrong....I'll get pics of the reg in a bit

 

ok everyone its time for an update since im long overdue. Ive got everything wire up, it turns over and nothing. I have spark but now i have set the distributor to match the compression stroke, this is soo hard!!!!, if anyone has any idea of wat to do pleassseeee help

thanks, im so close to getting it running

 

If you have spark then try a few shots of starting fluid - if it does not fire then either you have weak spark or your timing is way off. If it does fire then look at your fuel system - tank lines and filter or carb to see why its not getting any fuel

 

It has fuel and i just set it today to fire on the compression stroke, I think tonight or tomorrow, I'll go get some better spark plugs, carb cleaner, and starter fluid nd hopefully that will do the trick, battery is also losin power from cranckin it so fing much

 

Garr 2 hrs more spent on timing and still no firing, guess I'm going to have to use more starter fluid also some spark plugs, I'd really love if someone with a botmore knowledge came for just a few hrs and helped out. This is my only set back and I'm really losing my patience

gas lines however are done, I used aeroflow fittings and braided hoses since it was the best for the tpi to carb swap set up also I still need to tap the fuel pimp to run continuosly, everything left to do is simple just pricey remaining pieces

 

get the motor on tdc #1 piston, on compression stroke

pull number one plug and turn the engine with a breaker bar on the crank bolt, sometimes you can use a breaker bar on the alternator to avoid laying on the ground, as you crank you will know its on compression because you will hear the air woosh out of the spark plug hole. if you cant seem to get it that way have someone put a finger over the hole to feel for pressure building.....

assuming the motor is put together correctly with the correct balancer and timing tab, once you begin to notice it coming to tdc turn your attention to the timing tab there should be a line on the balancer, and if its a factory timing tab it will have several teeth and on that is deeper than the rest this should be tdc when the line is aligned with that tooth or v cut on the tab

NOW
pop the the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing, it needs to point where ever your #1 plug wire is adjust distributor accordingly or move the plug wires around the cap whatever you want to do, just make sure you are pointed at #1 wire, and the order is correct 18436572 going clockwise. if your not sure, #1 is front driver side, #2 is front passenger side, all even #s on passenger odd #s on driver side of motor

get that all correct and it will at least fire assuming you have good spark, good fuel and good compression... if it doesnt fire double check the rest of it again, also of note..... when we fired my motor last summer and ran it for break in, it wound up killing the starter, it was old and the new motor was evidently to tight 10.25-1 comp and the starter wouldnt turn it fast enough to get going, even with a jump start on it.

replaced starter and all was well. not saying the starter is bad simply that if you have done alot of cranking make sure you really have enough battery to power the starter and the ignition and the fuel system. you may need to charge it a bit if you have been cranking alot.

 

Ya i have everything aligned perfectly dizzy wires, nice spark, I'll try getting back out there tomorrow if I don't get stay at school to late, still havent stoped by the parts store for some starter fluid...

on friday however......tomorrow aparently.....im help a friend of mine with his floor pans, he got damn lucky and its not as bad as mine were by faaaarrrr. Its a 91 Formy and its in pretty mice condition, just needs a paint job because the owner before the last put the base coat straight on the metal body with no primer, it looks fine but its cripping and pealing like a ****.

back to topic, i really want to be done with this thing so i can drive it, even if it is around the block has no ttops. my friend should also be coming over to help with the timing tomorrow before we go to welding class...err

thanks...again firechicken

 

Ok well everything is hook up timing set perfect I go to turn the key and all you hear is the starter winding reallt fast but its not turning the engine, anyone have a clue to what that means or how stupid I am??\

 

hard to start a motor if its not even turning over huh?

first things first, did it ever actually roll the motor over?


is it the correct starter? although i dont think you can put a 168 tooth 14inch style starter on there and still get the t5 bellhousing on it that flywheel is 153 tooth 12 3/4inch so you need the appropriate starter any stock 3rd gen starter would work BUT there is a difference between manual and automatic i used an automatic starter with that bellhousing at one point, it fit VERY tightly as the nose cone is a bit larger


what wires do you have going to what studs on the starter? tho i believe if it spins it should be powering the bendix also (mechanism that pushes the gear out to mesh the flywheel) starter may be bad

 

well - it was turing the engine before right?

take a step back and say what changed from the last time it worked?

it could be the battery is not fully charged and the starter is not spinning fast enough to overcome the spring on the drive gear to engage the flywheel.

or it could be that the gear on the starter shaft is stuck - either by overheating the starter or maybe it's worn?

or it could be that there are no teeth on the flywheel where the starter is right now so there is nothing to engage...not good

if you have the inspection cover off the bottom of the tranny you should be able to see what's going on as well as check the gear in the starter and see if it's stuck - sometimes a light tap in the right spot will free it up.

don't get discouraged you have taken it this far - I always say "everything is a project" for a reason but once your done and it moves on it's own again - everything will pale and the smile on your face will be all that needs to be said.

 

I just bought the starter, Last week it was turning the engine over fine, but I couldnt get it to fire, I just got the battery charged because you can only crank it for so long, put it in and just a fast spinning wining noise maybe the mechanism did break, I really dont wana deal with anymore bs from this car, next step is mechanic to start it...pos

 

if it worked last week, and it was new and now it doesnt then i blame the starter.... take it back. dont tell them the whole truth just tell them it worked fine for the first few days and now it does this. they will test it, and if it fails will replace it for ya.

extended periods of cranking can and will overheat a starter and damage it, when i killed that one trying to restart the car after initial breakin last summer it still cranked but was so slow that it wouldnt fire the car.

it was off the car for an hour by the time i got it to the parts store and i was still using a glove to handle it due to how hot it was. i had to use a welding glove at first because my mechanix wears werent cutting it


now as for why the car wont fire up, when you went through the procedure in my last post about setting timing, did you find it to be correct or wrong? and dont be afraid to leave the dizzy hold down a little loose and advance and retard it if that motor has anything but a stock cam getting it to fire off at exact 0* time will be next to impossible

when you did have the thing cranking was it popping or backfiring or anything?

 

I took out and put the #1 at btdc then set the dizzy to fire right then, I was told that it had a mild cam so I left it loose anyway. Its such a pain in the *** to take off and put the starter back in, if that what I have to do then I guess I'll do it tomorrow, and hopefully they will have it in so I can finish this thing up. I just need to hear it fire and thats the rest of the motivation I'll need to finish it.

As for when I was trying to get it to fire, nothing happened, the engine just went round and round, I took the spark plugs out, sprayed wd40 in for 5 seconds each took off the tach wire on the dizzy TURN OVER THE ENGINE then put the plugs and connecter back in tryed to start it and got the fast winding sound, Im thinkin its just stuck on that spot, I'll just go turn the the crank tomorrow manually and se if that does it

 

ITS ALIVE!!!!!, Sounds F-ING sweet too in person I have a vid and ill put it up here in a few minutes.

I think the starter is just getting stuck because of the 168 flywheel and the 153 tooth stater...durrr, I'l see what I can do about that once I get the car idling nicely

Video:
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r...nt=86alive.flv

Pics of all gas line fittings and price:







Add an extra $80 for the fuel pressure reg, and $9 extra for 3 other fittings

 

if you got it, to start then its the correct flywheel and starter, you that starter only works right sometimes like it appears from your postings, then it needs to get returned and swapped out

looks like it popped back through the carb a little tryin to fire, but if you can start it like that repeatably, then you are pretty close. get it all buttoned up and and wire tied appropriately so you dont melt stuff when it gets hot, keep playing the dizzy forward and back untill it will actually stay running. turning up the idle a bit might help here at least untill you get it to stay going on its own, without cam specs i have no timing suggestions, and you just gotta play it by ear and butt dyno.

have fun be safe, i dunno about there but our roads are far from clean which prevented me from getting mine out to set the speedo up today... i had it running tho, started surprisingly easy for having sat since october

 

Nice bud, ya it ended upo that the starter stripped the teeth on the flywheel so it looks like im getting another starter and I already hava the fly wheel, Im done with this piece of ****, so monday its goin to the shop, now its his problem

 

Ouch - yeah that sucks. I had it happen to me too and was hoping it was not that when I posted my thoughts when you could not get it to turn over. Well, you let the mech fix it for you and get it running great and then finish it up yourself once you know it's mech all set.

 

Ya I was hoping to drive it down to FL for spring break, no way thats happening now. Im going to work on my 98 LS1 so it will be ready for the trip, I need to replace the rack and pinion and window motors and reg, I have a friend that was a mech so he can do the riveting for me

 

Just one more question, if I get a manual 79 camaro starter (thats what the engines from) will it fit the t-5?

 

get a starter for your 86 with a v8 and manual trans. a 79 would have likely had the larger diameter 168 tooth flywheel which is 14inches in dia, and the one you have from me is 153 tooth and only 12 3/4 inch dia. which is a stock oem part for a 3rd gen with manual trans.

You CANNOT use the larger flywheel inside a stock t5 bellhousing. And i therefore seriously doubt the 168 tooth starter would fit either, and it wouldnt mesh with the 153 tooth flywheel anyways i dont think.

long story short get a stock replacement for your 86 with a manual transmission.

 

Thats what I did, I got a manual starter for an 86 TA, I think what happened is tha I shimmed it too much, so it stripped the teeth pretty bad, where can I get another fly wheel like the one i got from you?

 

did you try not shimming it at all? i have never used a starter shim and i've done 15 starters which i guess isnt many, but to me that speaks alot on how necessary those shims are

got a pic of the damaged teeth on the flywheel? how bad is it really?

as for getting another flywheel, i couldnt find them as a stock replacement at parts stores, getting one for a 1 pc seal is easy, but no one could get it for a 2 piece, aftermarket you can get pretty easy check out summit but get out your wallet.

i grabbed that one out of a classified, or on www.car-part.com, or a junkyard run i dont recall which. but they are good places to look.

 

K thanks, picture the flywheel teeth, now picture them worn half way down

 

btw remember that you need a 2 pc seal flywheel, so 2 pc seal motors stopped in 85 so use an 82-85 v8 f body as your application when searching for a replacement,

i would try pulling the shims and see what happens, if the teeth are truely half gone then yeah you need to hunt, but it MAY get you by so that the car is mobile

 

Thats what Im hoping, I'll try taking the 1/32 shim out and see if that helps, I really dont want to take everything apart again, such a PITA I know Id eventually have to change a clutch but not right after everthing is together. For now I'll work on my LS1 and get back to this in a week or so, havent stopped working on it since September so.....yea, and I miss my 98 TA

 

Well Im going to go home and try starting it again without a shim, if it works great if is still gets stuck then I'll rip everything apart and replace the fly wheel, but it did sound nice and I want to hear it again

 

I hope it works for you - I have 2 and both don't have shims. Once you remove them I would peek in there and see how much engagement you have - might be that it'll work for you

 

Thanks, i tried it again but yea the starter for sure ate the flywheel teeth, so now its time to ripe apart everything i worked hard on nd replace, hopefully ill get it done by spring break, i was told that im not allowed to drive to FL with my 98, and the mom wont pay the insurance so i can drive it till we get back....awesome family, so needless to say if i find somewhere down there that i want to stay i wont have transportation, but theres always summer time for that =), still need the weatherstripping for the car otherwise every other part to be finished i have

 

Well i got the trans half way out, the tip of it is getting stuck on the clutch flaps, so ill have to go take the dizzy cap out tomorrow so i can lower the engine more, Its literally like right there tho. For the reinstall Ill be taking the engine back out and putting the trans on that way since it sucks under the car, oh well atleast now i have a weekend project

 

dont pull the engine again unless there is another reason way to much extra work

the correct way to do a t5 in my opinion......and the way i did it countless times is to separate it from the bell housing.. going back together it goes the same way get the clutch all together then put up the bell housing, then the trans.

i pulled that trans to start on my t56 swap in about 15 minutes by myself, including tool collection (all hand no air powered) and raising the car, ramps under front stands under the axle.

 

I would have had it done in that time if the bolts for it wernt so damn hard to get, I dont have a swivel extention so its a pita doing it, i just need the engine to go down another inch for me to clear the trans, I should have it done before my afternoon class tomorrow so it will be fine

 

Well I picked up another fly wheel and it happens to be a GM lightweight performance flywheel, Its funny that this is the only one that carquest could pull up for my setup. Oh well pretty cool for something totally unintentional. I should be going to a shop tomorrow to pick up a new gear for my starter, they specialize in parts for the electronic parts in cars and I was told they definately have it.

Everything is put back together, except for that pesky trans, I can seem to get it lined up right to get it in, Ill have it done tomorrow since a mechanically inclined friend is comming over to help eventho thas not really required. I'm also welding some floor panels in for a friend of mine thats working on a 91 firebird he picked up a few weeks ago.

Im hoping to be able to drive this thing on friday since I'm leaving for florida on saturday. I just need to get a new brake line that does to the master cylinder since I accidentally screwed it in on an angle going into the master cylinder, hopefully thats not screwed up

pic of old and new:

 

just a thought and i hope this is a stupid one. you did have TWO bolts holding your starter on right? not 1 big bolt and only that stupid little bracket at the other end?

the reason i ask is because i once had a motor from that 1979 era were you were told this motor came from and it was only drilled for the big flywheel starter, so i had to drill and tap the second hole picture linked below.... dont think you would try and only use 1 bolt but im thinking outside the box here cuz i dont want to see you go through this again, also start with no shims

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-c-old-d-drive

 

Yea I had the 2 bolts holding it in. There is still a spot for a big flywheel starter, so I guess it came with the 3 bolt holes thre

 

ok, good. i just happened to think of that. good luck getting it going before you head south

 

Its probably not going to happen, I got the starters engaging gear replaced and hooked everything back up but the damn thing still skips and grinds a bit, Im not going to keep turning it over and grinding it because thats what happened with the last one, I shimmed it right, then went shimless, then double the shim of the first 1, still so yea. I might just take the bellhousing and clutch assembly off and try to see if the fly wheel will go on a bit more. I doubt it since I used a rubber malet and hit it till it didnt move anymore. Im out of ideas though

I will continue on with the rest of the car such as the quarter panels, I've decided to stop waiting for local people to finally say ok this weekends good. Im going to a local place and am going to pick up some sheet metal and bend it as best I can to what the originals were, It will be very time consuming but a DIY is better than taking it to a shop like I planned. It will hopefully get done when I get back

 

i dont get it george, its really bothering me. and its not even my car. maybe in a couple weeks i'll roadtrip up there and kick its *** for ya, there has to be a simple explanation.

what brand and part number on that starter? are the bolt holes in line or offset?

 

There are in line, the starter is a remanufactured Valucraft, from autozone the part number is 6316, im hoping maybe its the starter???

 

that shows as the correct part, matter of factly i have the step up in the duralast line on my car now. and the same thing was on there with the very flywheel you got from me. on 2 different blocks

having said that..........

is it newly bought or did you have it on the car before this project?

i would take it back and get them to swap it out, something isnt right here. and no matter how many times that motor was rebuilt before you ever got it, the relationship of the center of the crank and the starter mounting pad should never change. it almost a certainty that the starter itself is at fault. not sure what they could have rebuilt wrong on it, my guess is its not extending the gear fully, or its got a bad or wrong gear in it. not sure if a wrong gear is even possible but you never know these days.

get me a close up of how it chewed the teeth up on the old flywheel please, from both directions, so i can see how worn down and whether its across the full width of the tooth or not.

 

It only nibbled at it, the starter get was worn only half way down, I really thing that the fly wheel may not be all the way on there, the starter cant move toward it anymore so i have no idea, errrr, but it will have to wait till I get back from break

 

Ok guys I've been pondering on this for a bit now, eventhough i'm on my vaca. I've come to a conclusion that the starter is the wrong one, for a manual starter it shouldn't have that nipple on it eventhough it's the guide for the engaging gear, forgot the damn name for it, the way the starter and fly wheel were damaged it looked as though half the starter gear only engaged half length of the flywheel teeth. When I get back on Monday I'll get a new starter and post up pics of the old flywheel and starter gear. If anyone is using a 2 piece rear main seal block with a t-5 setup let me know the starter u r using so I don't screw up again, thanks in advance