bes217

Well, I figured as long as I was rebuild my front end I would do my brakes as well. When I told my dad this he said that I should buy some brake system flushing fluid, or I can use alcohol to completely clean out the system. Well after searching high and low I cannot find this flushing fluid anywhere. Does anyone know if this even exists, and if it does where I can find some?

The reason I want to completely get rid of any old residual fluid is that I am going from the stock brake fluid to high performance synthetic stuff and want to make sure that there is nothing else in there.

Dave Y

use break clean/cleaner, is dries with no residue, just blow the system out with compressed air before refilling with the new fluid

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Should be able to find denatured alcohol at a hardware store or home builders supply (IE: Home Depot).

RBob.

Briansz28

Just my opinion, but I don't think you should use alcohol of any kind to flush your brake system. Any kind of alcohol absorbs water and you don't want water in your brake system. I think the best/only way is to flush with clean brake fluid compatible with what you are replacing it with.

TomP

True, but I'm pretty sure you can't let standard brake fluid mix with synthetic at all! In fact don't the seals even need to be changed out (inside the calipers and m/c and everything)?

My vote (hehe) would be to flush your system with new brake fluid using a mityvac or something, then to replace all the old hoses with new ones. That'll make a noticeable improvement.

bes217

I am going to replace the hoses. After I flush out the system with alcohol, what you do is disconnect the brake line at the master cylinder and blow compressed air through the system to blow out any residual alcohol. Then you let it sit for a couple of hours to make sure that all of the alcohol has evaporated. When that is done you fill the system up and then you drain it again and then fill the system up and make sure that there is no air in the lines and then you are done.

melamkish

Alcohol has been used for decades to flush and clean brake systems out. I would recommend Anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol instead of denatured. Anhydrous isopropyl alcohol does not contain water. Available at electronics parts stores.

grafx

Check it out!! Your wasting your time trying to flush your system with alchohol the only time you should even worry about using alchohol is if you have a lot of moisture in the system or you accedently poured some sort of petroleum product into your reservor like motor oil or something, cause petroleum based products will cause the rubber seals in your brake system to swell. Check the back of your bottle and it should say that it's compatible with all other brake fluids. You can get most of the old stuff out by simply bleeding your brakes the good old fashioned way, and if you want to make absolutly sure then buy an extra bottle.

Besides your car is only a daily driver and if making the switch to a synthetic did require you to go through all that trouble, it wouldn't be worth the time or added expense. Your car is only a V6, you don't need anything beyond regular brake fluid. Put that money torwards your LS1/LT1 engine swap. Cause once you go to this type of power you may just find that those single piston caliper/rear drum brakes aren't going to cut it.

joshp14

Brake fluid absorbs water too...why do you think they measure the boiling point of brake fluid as 'wet' and 'dry' temps?

RJR99SS

dang...he beat me to it. Yeah, thats why you never let brake fluid sit around with the cap off.

The problem with brake lines is that they build up varnish in there. in the normal lines that really dosnt matter, but in your combo valve (proportioning, metering, pressure diff) this can cause problems.

So personally i dont think flushing the actually lines has much effect, as any debris in there will deposit in the combo valve, wheel cylinder or caliper. Cleaning these out with brake fluid (or just replacing them) will give you the most noticable result.

i Assume you mean you're going to switch over to dot 5 silicone type brake fluid? If so, yeah flushing the whole system is a must. glycol based fluid and silicone fluid are very incompatible.

I wouldnt say that it's a great idea to go to silicone fluid on just a daily driver. It's a little too much work, and not a lot of payoff. Silicone fluid dosnt absorb water like glycol does. However....water still gets in the line naturally. Instead of being absorbed however it just sinks to the lowest part of the system, the caliper or wheel cylinder where it can cause the most problems

Motor City Mike

Synthetic fluid, like most other glycol based brake fluids, is compatible with regular DOT 3 or 4 fluids, so a complete system flush is unnecessary. Silicone (or DOT 5) fluid OTOH, would require a complete system flush. Just remove as much existing fluid from your master cylinder as possible (siphon), refill it with synthetic fluid, crack open all your bleeder screws and gravity bleed your system until the fluid comes out clear (be sure to keep your reservoir full) at all 4 wheels. Bleed system as required.

jaredi

What does the size of his motor have to do with how hard he uses his brakes? I would really say go ahead and do this if you plan to AutoX it or OT it. It may only be a V6 but repeated stops from 80+ is gonna take a pretty big toll on your braking system. and I know a V6 Fbody will get to 80. Those brakes don't really care if you've got a V6 or a V8 (other than weight) you're still going 80 and you've still got to slow down.

Synthetic Castrol fluid has a very high boiling point and is a good fluid. Fluid boiling is a cause of brake fade. Brake fade is bad. Flushing with Castrol Synthetic will prevent fade caused by fluid boiling. If you run Hawk or Porterfield Race pads you will NOT overheat them, but you may overheat some worn out, watered down fluid=Brake Fade.

And before you say nobody's gonna use their V6 in an Autocross or OT, look up AGood2.8 on here. Tell him he can run crappy fluid cause he ain't gonna use his brakes all that much anyways.

Jared

MrDude_1

in order to meet DOT4 (donno about 3, but id assume so) requirements, it has to be compatible with all other DOT4 fluids..




and yes you can mix synth and non-synth brake fluid..... heres how i would do this:

first off, im a HUGE fan of speed bleeders... they are bleeder screws with a one way check valve in them. if you dont have them, get them. NAPA even keeps them in stock now.


id first take out as much fluid and crud from the master cyl reserver that i can... then refil it with new fluid...

goto the rear passenger side and loosen the speed bleeder...

keeping a eye on the fluid level, pump the brakes... whats happening is all the old fluid is bing pushed out of the rear caliper... do that until you see only fresh clean fluid coming out... then repeat for the drivers side rear....

then do the front pass side, then the front drivers side...


that will give ya fresh clean fluid on all 4 corners..

no they dont make a specific brake fluid flush... mostly cause its not needed... and any part that actually needed it should probly be replaced... for safteys sake..

as far as a alcohol to clean it... i really dont see the point.. brake fluid is more agressive then any alcohol mentioned in this thread... *shrug*

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

First: All brake fluid is synthetic.

Second: Stay with DOT 3 brake fluid, that's what the system on a third gen is made for.
Even DOT 4 can cause problems,to achieve higher boiling points, DOT 4 (and higher!) has higher viscosity, meaning the fluid is slightly "thicker".
All the small passages,holes etc. inside the system is designed for the viscosity of DOT 3 fluid.

MrDude_1

DOT4 fluid is fine.

and you pretty much cant buy just DOT3 anymore... its been superceded by DOT4... most bottles will say, for DOT3 and DOT4 systems.


no one has ever had a prob with DOT4 in their 3rdgen. ever.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

First: DOT 3 is widely available,just ask for it!

Second: a lot of problems on older brake systems are to blame on using DOT4 in DOT 3 designed systems, only it is not fuly understood by many!! (including the last poster!!).

But use whatever you like, I don't care at all!!!

MrDude_1

we live in the USA. most of us anyway.

and name one thing. one prob. because they are the same thing except DOT4 has a higher boiling point.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Whatever you want, mr DUDE, whatever you want.......

Matthew91-Z28

Well....that was weird.:lala:

MrDude_1

sure was...

MrDude_1

i hate when people post false info... so im just going to cite and quote other sites from a quick google search:

http://the-land-rover-portal.com/dis...rake_fluid.htm

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-fluids.html

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archiv.../msg00000.html


http://www.type2.com/library/brakes/brakef.htm

http://www.carcentral.net/content/gu...ake_System.php
ect ect ect.. search on google for more...


the one thing i did learn from this search is that overseas, outside of the us, they still sell DOT3 fluid.... here in the USofA, you will have a hard time finding pure DOT3 fluid as DOT4 and DOT3/4 fluid is pretty cheap...



another thing i learned from my search... brake fluid is flammable.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/hydraulics/ht101.htm




out of all the pages, i only saw one post on a msg board.. the guy said that there was one volvo that you couldnt do it with.. and that he read that somewhere...

now i donno about volvos, but i know GM. and you an use any DOT3 or DOT4 fluid in your system... but DOT4 absorbs water slower and has a higher boiling point. add to it that you have trouble finding pure DOT3 in the US and you will probly be putting DOT4 in during your brake job...



i like how you mock me with no backing or proof.... for the boiling point and other info of most brake fluids, you can look on the manafactures website. its usually listed there... or do a search, i found a couple tables without trying.... also i left out companys since i figured you would reply with "they make and sell it so its bised info" thats why i left what i posted to generic car sites and msg boards.

jaredi

We just had a Dollar tree open up and they sell DOT3 fluid. I also have a bottle I bought from AutoZone last year, it says DOT3 Minimum Boiling point 284°. So I guess it's possible to find in the bargain bin

Jared

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well Mr. Dude, did you ever ask GM what to use, instead of quoting Land Rover stories?
I did, and gues what the answer was.

All brake fluid manufacturers around the world still produce DOT 3 brake fluid.
Most car part shops won't sell it because they will sell you DOT 4 (more storing space,selling just one type of fluid!)
The more proffessional shops will have it in stock, or will order it for you, no matter where you live!.
Lets stop this discussion, and let everybody decide what to use in their cars.
And yes, I do use DOT4 brake fluid in my modern daily driver, but just NOT in my Pontiac, it's not designed for it.
You didn't read the important point in my former post,it's not a matter of boiling point,nor water absorption, but VISCOSITY is the main concern,again DOT 3 is slightly "thinner" than DOT 4, thus moves easier throug the system!!

MrDude_1

VISCOSITY eh?


lets think for a moment.

the only "ports" in the system that are sized and would have a effect with changing VISCOSITY would be in the prop valve.

its a ratio thing though... so the RATIO would be the same front to rear after the fluid change. sure the fluid may be thicker or thinner, but it would not be anything you could EVER feel at the pedal. it would have almost ZERO effect on it.


please stop talking out of your ***. people can put whatever fluid they want in their cars. however you are putting a seed of doubt in their minds about the fluid they are choosing to use. there is no reason not to use the better DOT4 fluid other then price. and its cheap here.


who did you ask at GM? i call bullsh!t on that.

MrDude_1

btw if you FEEL one way, or have a OPINION, thats one thing.


but dont state your OPINION as fact.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Mr.Dude,It's clear to me you don't know **** about brakes.
It's fools like you that make others doubt what to use.

MrDude_1

after a friend read my above post he said i should be a bit clearer on the viscosity being a non-issue thing.


the viscosity of your fluid changes all the time. when its cold it is much thicker then when it is hot.... rather then type it out i just pulled this off the first brake fluid manafactuer i found:




so you see, they are the same viscosity.


now add to that that most modern brake fluids are waay within the min and max ratings, and your moot point is even more moot.

MrDude_1

forgot to put my source in..

http://www.miswa.co.uk/auto.html

at the bottom are 3 links.

one tells about the tests
one is the DOT3 specs and their fluids specs
the other is th DOT4 specs and their fluid specs.

25THRSS

You can still find DOT 3 just about anywhere. That being said, I still agree with MRDUDE about using DOT 4. It is better and won't cause any adverse effects. Also, Dutch-Bird, I recommend you keep the name calling to yourself. People here do not appreciate it, in this case MRDUDE. He was only trying to help, and you did nothing but run your mouth and insult him. NOT COOL. You can state your opinion without the insults.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Sorry 25THRSS but who is insulting who here?
I don't like to be acused of giving false info,nor do I like to hear I'm talking from my as.!!(as Mr. Dude told me!!!)
And I was only trying to pas my 30 years of expierience on to anyone who wants it!
But if you don't want me to, please let me know, and I stop posting.
Overhere in Europe we have respect for eachother, and listen to eachothers opinion and try to learn something from it!!
Instead of trying to floor someone elses opinions!

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

One more thing, As you probably know I'm Dutch, and I'm not used to discuss in the English language, (specialy difficult for me when it's technical issues!)
So when I use the wrong words once in a while, forgive me, I'm only trying my best!
If you don't understand me ,please ask me what I mean, and I will try to explain better!
Please image yourself discussing in Dutch, on a Dutch forum.......!!

MrDude_1

im real nice about peoples OPINIONS.

the problem is, you are not stating an opinion. you are stating a wrong fact. you are saying that:

DOT4 fluid in a DOT3 system will have a adverse effect.


now i dont know, and i dont even care about other cars. only 3rdgen fbodys.
in a 3rdgen fbody:

DOT4 fluid in a DOT3 system will NOT have any adverse effects.

this is not only a true, but proven fact.




i have no prob that you're dutch, and am honestly impressed with your english for it being your 2nd (or more) language... but even if we both spoke dutch, i'll still be having this discussion with you.

25THRSS:
when i insult people i give them the right to insult me back... thanks but, doun worry about it