Hey folks..

today I went to my job (teacher) in my finally finished LTx TA.. The autoshop guys wanted to see it so over lunch I went there..

Well the welding teacher says to do a burnout so I do and realize that the rear got awful loose when I stepped on the brakes, I wasn't going very fast at all..

Go in and chat with everyone and come back out there is a puddle of brake fluid at the left rear wheel..

Since I had NO time we pull it in the shop and I go back to class.. A while later I get a call from the shop teacher, my brand new earls line has sheared off right where the caliper block is crimped onto the line.. I look at it after school and it looks like a factory assembly error pinched the connection too much.

Wow, failure after 20-30 whole miles on the car..

I am going to call Earls but now I am paranoid that the whole brake system is suspect since their lines are on all four corners and the "t" to the rear axle..

Anyone had this happen?? I will post pics when I get the failed part from school tomorrow.. this thing is BRAND NEW and in a different situation could of totaled the car or killed me, I like my car but I do like my wife and kids better..

 

I seem to remember someone else with earl's lines and they failed. Yikes thats a scary feeling...

 

Very scary.. I just got off the phone with Earls and they said to send them for them to "take a look".. the phone engineer was very nice..

I just said I am not sure what I want really, just for them to tell me what happened and that they are "safe"..

He said that all are tested to 4000psi before going out the door..

I will snap a pic before I send them off.

 

Member Quadgoat lost his '84 or so TA to an Earl's failure. After these two stories, I'll think twice before buying that brand, which I had thought was an excellent one.

 

I think his was a Russel line, not Earl's. I'm sure Earl's will stand by their line. I use them in 80% of my kits.

Ed

 

D'oh, you might be right, Ed.

That was in poor form of me, I should have double-checked before posting

 

umm... i just bought some russel lines and i planned on using them on my rear calipers. also the 1le kit i bought came with russel lines for the fron and the T for the rear.

-are these lines not safe? should i not use them? they seem to be very high quality and i would definetly trust them over a stock rubber line.

 

Russell is the brand that most folks have had trouble with.. I went with Earls because of the good rep and have used them before with no trouble..

This seems to be a somewhat rare error.. I will see what they say and report it to you all, I don't think this is reason to not buy them.. I am not quite sure what it is yet, it could be my error, which looking at the line I doubt..

I just want to share the experience, not paint the brand one color or the other. The moral of this story so far is check your new brake system hard and somewhere safe with lots of runoff...

oh, and thanks for the input Ed, I was hoping you would see this.

 

Definitely keep us posted, I will be interested to hear what Earl's has to say.

I did lose my '84 T/A to a Russell hose failure up front. The line ruptured at one of their factory crimps. In retrospect I should have at least tried to go after the company, but it was WELL outside their amazingly wonderful 90 day warrantee. Imagine that...DOT approved and a 90 day warrantee!

I have Earl's on all 4 corners of my '92 because I haven't heard bad things about them. I hope this is just a fluke thing because I'm not interested in losing my brakes ever again. I know it's not fun, but be thankful you lost your hose in a parking lot, not 1/2 way across a bridge with a red light at the other end

Still definitely sorry to hear of your troubles though!

-Paul

(Couple pics of the '84/failed hose):


--You can see the frayed braid where it ruptured, just above the bracket on the strut--

 

I was considering braided lines, but I think I will stick with my factory type now.

 

I got Earls. No issues thus far but THX for the heads up. I dont put hardly any miles on my Bird, but when I do its a spirited drive or a cruise. Ill be on the check out of those regularly

 

I've been running Earl's for a number of years without difficulties.

JamesC

 

I happen to have Russel front lines on my RS with no issues but I'll probably change them out first chance I get, just for peace of mind.

Ed

 

Here are the pics I promised, took a while to get a replacement camera..

sending these to earls in the next day or so.

 

Wow, another braided line failure. I have a new set of Earls for the front, I am really going to look them over, but I am not sure you would have been able to tell anything by looking before it failed. I have Russel on my Jeep, and they come with most lift kits, I haven't heard of any failures on any of the other boards. I sure hope these are isolated events.

 

I read about some aftermarket braided lines having issues. I went with all stock rubber lines on my car. They are cheap enough to replace if they ever dry rot... and since they tend to collapse before they shear, Ill probably stick with them.

I do have russel lines on my jeep though. Extended rear line and front lines. So do my buddies who Ive build jeeps for. They come with the lift kits that I work with. No issues with mine or theres, and I can gaurantee that the lines on my jeep see more bending and twistnig and pulling than on a street/strip car.

That failure seems like a defect in the metal block, and may not have shown up during the pressure test. Once you put some twisting force on it, and then added pressure, it probably gave way.

Atleast you werent moving!

J.

 

Yeppers, it actually made an audible "clink" when I slid the car sideways, then it was REALLY loose.. there is really no visible difference between it and the other side (apart from it broken), something in the crimping process.

after I got it fixed I took the car up in the mountains away from anyone and did a series of very severe stops, my warm fuzzy is back about the brakes again at least. Will report what Earls has to say.

 

ergghhh soon as i have my mind made up on getting somthing... somthing happens that makes me reconsider lol. Really wanted these too yes im very intersted too hear what earl says looks like i might be doing stock lines lol.

 

did you have it looped the right way

 

Went on easy as pie with no strain, so yes it was on correctly. When you look closely at the pic you can see exactly how thin this line was at the crimp.. it is really thin. The pic with me holding the lens cap. The inner ring you see is exactly how much was holding this line together.

 

from what i hear all braided lines fail like this at some point thats why most are not dot approved
they tend to blow out completely instead of slowly failing

 

Interesting, I have heard of failures but I always thought they were the exception not the rule. I know the Russell lines that I had (which failed) were DOT approved, and the Earl's lines I'm running now are DOT approved.

Maybe I should switch back to good ole fashioned rubber...I don't know...

-Paul

 

My money (and my life) is with Earl's at the moment. I have no reason to change them now.

 

On the other hand, maybe you do

Not the first time I have heard of this, I never recomend those things.

 

Oh wise one, please state your recommendation.

I mean we have to be talking about less than a .05% failure rate, right?

 

From what I've read stainless lines are susceptible to all sorts of issues that rubber aren't. If they get hot (IE, welding near them) they break virtually instantly because it hardens the (teflon?) on the inside of the line.

From all the positive reviews I've read on Earl's, I'd have to say this might be the small ratio of failure expected from any manufactured part. At least they seem to be doing something about it, taking your whole kit back and examining it. If it was something on their end, they'll probably fix it.

Another thing to remember when I want to save time after doing anything with my brakes. Test test test!

 

i meant this is how they fail
they burst instead of slowly fail

they cant expand and contract like stock rubber
so once the braiding Fatigues a bit they fail spectacularly


they cant just get a pin hole like like rubber

now on the other hand the failure shown in the pics is from poor manufacturing this type of failure is not the norm
most braided lines are used for stock car type racing or racing in general
even with dot approval i would never use them on a street car

stock rubber lines do fail but normally after years of use and tend to expand to much causing slow leaks but you can normally still stop the car

when a braided line fails it bursts shooting fluid everywhere not only do you lose most if not all braking power
a lose your car / life even in a best case you at least damage paint

race cars that use braided lines replace them every race
think every 500 miles there replaced
i understand that once you have used braided lines the brake feel is so much better but at the same point you have to remember to change them often hence the 90 day warranty
not that normal rubber lines have great warranty's but they are safer in the long run

 

There you go thinking again...

I have buddies who have had the same braided brake lines on their cars for over 5 years of racing.

The biggest enemy to braided lines is rubbing and impact. Take rubber line, slit it down the side, slide it over the braided line, then zip tie it in place. Tons more rub/projectile protection.

Maybe NASCAR replaces them every race, but not every racer is a millionaire.

I trust Earl's lines to work at 145MPH at the end of the front straight at Road America.

 

Ok, looking at the posts all I can share is my input.. the lines that came with my baer brakes were braided and held up well under hard driving conditions for 25 thousand miles..

This set (the second on this car) had no impact, were not rubbing in any way, and were not installed improperly, there were also not subjected to any ham-fistedness. They also had only twenty miles if that.. they are still very shiny and new with not even a single stainless braid out of place.

still waiting on the word on these, but it is the holidays.. so for me the failure rate is 50% for braided sets, or 1 in 8 when looking at individual lines. I know that the common thought with an uncommon failure is installation error, looking at my car and posts I would hope you all know that is not the case here.

Do I still run them, yes. BUT I find the lapse in quality control to be alarming and depressing. Understand that this can happen, I would expect a failure like this (from construction) to occur early which is why I suggested trying out brakes early and hard with lots of runout.. as mentioned above TEST, TEST, TEST..

I would encourage you all to look at the pics closely and wait to see what Earls tells me before we have a collective freak out. I expect that I will get a nice set of shiny new lines and they will look at whatever machinery made the line I sent them.

 

Less that .05%...last time I checked it only took once to do damage.

Let me see, when was the last time I heard of a stock hose failure like this.........hummmmm, don't remember any.

Like the man said.."I would never use those on a street car" (too many obsticles to make contact with).

 

I put Earls on mine, front and back, and the feeder line to the rear as well. No problems as of 2 years. I gravity bled the lines for 2 hours after getting everything on includig my new slotted front rotors and new rear rotors along with my Hawk Racing ceramic pads front and rear.

 

Well here is the verdict. They are sending me new lines.

If you look at the first pic I posted of the broken line you will see a small brown mark. They are saying that is a witness mark from something in the suspension hitting the line causing it to break. But are giving me the "benefit fo the doubt".

The fact is that the line was well clear of any suspension parts, on a straight axle, attached to the axles by stock brackets. Last I checked there is no suspension part close to the caliper to hit it, and very little room for it to wiggle. The "mark" could of been caused when removing the line, or any other time but seems pretty darn small, and I don't remember it at all. So that is it, more questions for me than answers, their explanation is not acceptable to me but oh well.. the only concession was that he did mention that it looked like the die that made the part was slightly worn.

 

you guys do know almost all auto makers use a braided line(s) on almost every car/truck now right???? they still use rubber at the calipers (as far as I can think, however I am sure a few do by now) and any main flex spot. but from the abs , master cyl. and some spots down the frame they use these stainless braided lines maybe it has to do more with how much flexing they get

blow out or not you should have enough time to stop on the street unless you are one of those people who stomp the pedal at the last possiable second.

racing I can see since you are pushing the cars limits and have little to no error time

 

I have had Earls hoses on my 91' Camaro since 1993, I have had Earls hoses on my Yukon since 2000 and it has huge tires that it has to stop...I have never had any issues with them (Thankfully). I would be willing to bet that your situation is a freak scenario (scary no less) but would doubt it will re-occur. Best of luck with the next set, hopefully the company has kept its quality inspections to a high standard and not let it slip like so many others do today...
On another note, my wifes 05' Lexus came from the factory with stainless braided lines...

Jason

 

Has anybody had any experience with Goodridge brake lines? They seem pretty interesting as an alternative supplier to the two already mentioned here.

 

Haven't heard of them, but Aeroquip brand has lines and fittings as well and I like them a bit more than even Earl's. Someone mentioned putting rubber over the steel braid lines, which a great suggestion as almost every spot that there is steel braid line on our race cars, we have either heat shrink or heat shield to protect it from rub and temperature. And working in the racing world, I can tell you most people don't replace their steel braid line every race...maybe once a year if you've blown a motor and are replacing all the oil lines anyway, but even then, usually not. Unless they are kinked or damaged, they stay...visual inspection is a lot more prevalent on a race car though.

 

I bought a set of the Russell lines when I worked at Pep Boys and I got a good
deal on them because they were discontinued. Now I know why. When I installed
the fronts there was very little room for flex. It was very tight and over a period
of several weeks I developed a leak at the fitting on one and lost fluid. I pulled
them off and put factory lines back on. I did not have any faith to use the back line.

 

I still have all factory origional brakes with factory fluid and hoses and calipers (fluid is blacker than my oil lol).

I was thinking of upgrading the lines to braided this summer, and I still might. I like the idea of slicing the old hose, and putting it on the outside to protect it.

-------------------

Also, I know the feeling you get in your gut when you dont have brakes. After an oil change once, I forgot to plug the brake booster in. I was cruising down the hill on my road towards the busy 4-way stop sign, when I realized that I couldnt push the brake pedal !! So I ended up rolling through the stop sign because I couldnt downshift fast enough. Then I remembered the e-brake and used that to pull over.

So remember this guys. It's good to practice once and a while, what to do if the brakes stop working. Basically, if you devolep the quick response to downshift and e-brake, you could avoid an accident. It's the "oh, ****" time with the hole in the stomach feeling, that is gonna cause trouble.