Hey this is my first post in the brake board. Ive had my car for some time now, and Im starting to think about brakes. I just swapped a 9 bolt rear in with disc brakes, non pbr. I was looking for opinions. I am stuck with 15 inch rims for most likely 6months to a year. Which limits my upgrades...almost completely. I was wondering if I should invest in some slotted/drilled rotors from summit for some more stopping power, or should I just wait untill I can get a decent set of 17 inch rims to upgrade?

 

I think you need to do a bit of research before wasting your money that way.

You have the rear brake system that never works. What would putting those $$$rotors$$$ on there do, that don't actually change anything about how the brakes work, if the pads don't ever touch them? (people drive that brake system around with rotors that stay permanently rusty.... go figure)

First thing you need to do is get rebuilt calipers; and new stock repacement rotors, if yours are too badly rusted. Next thing you need to do, before you even put them on the car, is get the recall kit from GM, and install it. Third thing you need to do, is the proportioning valve mod. After you do those 3 things, those crap brakes will at least DO something, instead of just being lots of unsprung dead weight.

Then, since the ONLY way they stay working is by being adjusted up as they wear, and the way they adjust is by using the parking brake, you need to develop a habit of using the parking brake EVERY time you get out of the car; and twice on Sundays. Miss that just a few times, and the brakes will no longer work.

Then AND ONLY THEN, worry about bling rotors.

You don't need to worry about wheel size as long as those brakes are on your car.

 

Since I stumbled on this thread... Would his rear brakes (non-pbr) be the same as my 1982 TA WS6 rear discs?

I've already gotten the rebuild kit (thanks to GM's "no expiry date" recall system...)
What's the "prop valve mod" and does it apply to me? I noticed my brakes are pretty sleepy the few times I really *needed* them. Scares me into driving more responsibly, but still...
Part number or info?

 

I believe all 82-88 rear discs are the same crap delco moraine iron calipers.

Also, why did you swap to a 9-bolt? They're a tad stronger, but have no aftermarket, and some of the wear parts are impossible to locate, and it has bad brakes. All around suckage. Look around on here, you can find the 9-bolt PBR backing plates occasionally if you're lucky, and you can swap on the PBR brakes from a 89-92 car, considering the 9-bolt was still around in '89 and early '90 and all had disc brakes, but that doesn't cure any of the other ailments.

Personally, if you still have that old 10 bolt, and it had discs, I'd go back to it in a heartbeat, upgrade the axles + posi, and put on the Wilwood kit for 93-97 Camaros. If it had drums, keep an eye out for a 90-92 with discs and buy the rear. 28 Splines, decent posi, good brakes. Less to replace at once for a real upgrade. But that's just me.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...od-better.html

Let's see if the board link works....

There's a drawing of it there by Dean; and a link to somebody else's CarDomain page, who took pics as they did it. Like most threads on this board where certain people get involved though, there's alot of bickering, name-calling, and "you don't 'know' what you're talking about" and "I 'know' more than you do" in that thread; but if you kind of skip over all that, the information you need is buried in there somewhere.

The fundamental problem appears to be, the factory designed the system to mimic the behavior of drum brakes in some way, maybe to keep inexperienced drivers who had never driven 4-wheel disc brakes before (which would have been, in 1982 when the system was first used, just about everybody), from killing themselves. It's REAL EASY, as some may know, to lock up the rear brakes and make the car swap ends, if they're TOO effective. People who think they're going to just stomp on the brakes with all their weight, like you'd do with drum brakes, are in for a RUDE surprise, and can KILL people (themselves as well as others) that way. Not a matter to be taken lightly. So this valve severely limits the amount of rear braking effort that can be applied. Coupled with the crappy calipers and the idiotic non-functional adjusting arrangement, it's pretty much a recipe for rear brakes that are nothing but giant cast-iron vibration dampers on the ends of the axles. I don't know FOR SURE that that's why it is like it is, but I DO know that the factory guys aren't stupid (much), that they DO have reasons for things that they do, even if we don't know out here in the RW what they are; and that before modding anything, it's always wise to figure out why it was made the way it was. That's just my best guess.

It's pretty controversial. Some people consider it hacking on something better left unhacked, and dangerous. On the other hand, since the rear brakes are basically all but disabled if you DON'T do it, it might be one of those "what have you got to lose" situations.

A FAR better solution overall, is to just get rid of that lousy system, and put PBRs on the car. Problem is, you gotta change out the backing plates; and the PBR plates for a 10-bolt don't fit the 9-bolt. But since the 9-bolt/PBR combo was a ONE YEAR ONLY (89) thing, they're hard as hell to find. Those of us who have extra sets usually don't want to sell them. No, mine aren't for sale: I might need them someday.

 

You can search for ebmiller on this site and he can sell you the custom brackets for the PBRs. They're not outrageous...

 

Ok for some answers.
I swapped to the 9 Bolt because my ten bolt died on me, and I wanted a cheap affordable posi. (150 Bucks isnt a bad deal at all)

Now about this recall kit, any more info? I have no idea what it is.

As this is my first thread in the brake forums, I currently know almost nothing about brakes. Besides how to change the pads and bleed em. So any help would be great.

Also I had a question about the prop. valve. I did swap to a disc proportioning valve, but Im curious about this plug that blocks another valve, seeing as both drum and dis valves have it in the opposite spot, is it the same prop valve, but they just change the location of the plug for drum or disc setups?

 

This is the guy to answer all of your disk brake questions. I would suggest giving him a call.

ebmiller88 - he has the Kool-Aid man as his avatar!

He sells adapters for various upgrades for every axle you can imagine and is very helpful. He also deals with the prop valves and everything else.

If you search this forum I think you will find all of your questions can be answered.

 

No it is not.

That will also prevent your rear brakes from doing anything.

The MC and prop valve are different for the Saginaw rears. You need to get the right ones. Your rear brakes will NEVER work right with the ones you've got now.

Do a search on this forum for "recall kit" and "part number". It's been posted many times. It's a GM (dealer only) item.

 

Whew, thanks for the link, that was a barrage.

It looks like "the" solution is a little plug. Sounds SUPER easy. But is a $35 adjustable proportioning valve (summit house brand knockoff of wilwood) a better bet? Or would I use the plug (to increase the rear brake bias), then also install the adjustable prop valve in the rear brake line in order to limit it back down a bit?

 

Sounds like the adjustable prop valve would be a better way to go to me. Do you have a link for the jegs prop valve? How hard are they to fit?

 

Hi fellas..

The recall kits are now discontinued but I have 5 sets on hand. PM me if you want one. They replace the malfunctioning actuators in the stock calipers and word from the guys who have them is that they do work but you still need to use the park brake consistently.

I also have brackets for the PBR swap to 9 bolts with sizes ranging from the stock 11.6" up to 13" custom setups, again PM if you want them.

For the orginal poster, you can swap out your master for a disc one or keep the one you have as all cars got the same master from '90 on up which happened to be a drum one, assuming you swapped the disc rear into a drum rear car, which is most likely the case.

Ed