sweet let me know how it sounds, thats the set-up im planning

 

now i know you dont know what you are talking about. every amp loses power when it loses volts. if it doesnt, it defies the laws of physics. its called ohm's law. on the other stuff you listed im not sure if they matter or if you even know which is better by its number.

learn a little more before you have an opinion. no offense but dang....

 

he didnt say that he made those numbers up, he said they came from the JL and RF websites, respectivly

 

if you read what he said though, he specified that the RF loss power when it loses volts but that JLs do not. that is total crap.

 

yes, iread what he typed, did you notice the quotations where it said?

That is directly from the JL website, and that is what his judgment is based off of, if you dont beleive me go to their website and look for yourself

 

its not that i dont believe what JLs website says. obviously NEITHER of you can interpret it though. it says that it DOES NOT SIGNIFICANTLY affect power, not that it does not affect it at all.

 

Why the JL site is completely misleading you!!
First with 14.4 Volts
OHM's law ....explained for car audio
The first thing, find the current level.

If you know your resistance load(2 ohm, 4 ohm, etc.)
14.4 Volts / 2 Ohms = 7.2 Amperes(current)

Next, find the power output
14.4 VOlts X 7.2 Amperes = 103.7 Watts


Now using 12 Volts
Fins the current level.
12 Volts / 2 Ohms = 6 Amperes

Then the power rating
12 Volts X 6 Amperes= 72 Watts

That is over 25% less power! That is at 2.4 volts differnce. Drop another 1 volt off and the power loss is tremendous. The JL site is completely in the wrong by stating that on their site.

 

well, i wasnt saying that their would be no drop. I was saying that i could see how he arrived @ that conclusion, as CUNO said, the JL site is misleading

 

i think the JL site accomplished what it was meant to. it was a way of making some ppl think that it was better by using a certain word setup.

90rs3.1 on the other hand made his own assumptions based on no real facts that i could see.

 

go look at jl's website and read what it says go ahead read it.. that was a direct copy and past. and yes those other numbers do matter nad i know which is better.

I took exactly what was on those 2 website tamu look em up for yourself.

I took exaclty what both sites said and compared them. I've heard this alot aobut JL amps ther suppsoed to be able to put out constant continuous power no matter whats oging to it.

The Rf on the other hand tells you that it drops off. thats what im going by. Read it on there sites for crying out loud i didnt freakin make it up its ritght there in black and well, red on Rf's site. Read before you open your motuh to critisize. i dont make crap up. Look up whats writtin about the jl 600 watt monoblock amp. then look up what it says for the RF i beleive it was the punch 500.x im not sure i didnt save the link. You guys brought up the volts issue im just relaying what the information out there says. just shoot the messenger why dont ya.

I think having experience with BOTH amps is facts enough for me.

Im not saying that ohms law is wrong or anyhting any of you have said is...im just relaying the facts that i have. On jl's website read the magazine reiview section on there. thats what i went by. Then on RF's site readh what they say about there own amps............im not saying im perfect but each companies website seemd like a reliable source of informaiton

 

you did make up info. read your post before this last one. and if what you posted was the only real info on this fact on JLs site then you did not read it correctly. not to be rude, but dang man, read every word and then process the info. it will save you from getting raged by ppl like me who do read things closely.

and the thing about hearing alot that JL amps put out continuous power at any voltage is total . those ppl that tell you that are stupid (or gullible).

READ READ READ

 

Go to jl's site and read what it says. HOW CAN I MAKE SOMETHING UP IF I COPY AND PAST IT FROM ANOTHER SITE!!!!
you read read read not to be ignorant but tis right there. im odne with this i got better htings to do than argue over a stupid amp.

 

Yes the JL amps do put out the same power from 11.5V to 14V and also over a broad range of loads as well. Its NOT breaking ohms law either. Its rather simple in theory. Amps run off a certain rail voltage, so JL uses multiple rail voltages and picks the voltage that will give the rated power with the load/supply voltage it is given. Do a little research before you speak....

http://www.carsound.com/reviews/amps/jl_5001.html
http://www.carsound.com/reviews/amps/jl_3004.html


BTW, just because they do this doesn't automatically mean they are better than the RF amps. Also, as long as an amp has a dampening factor of 25-50+ its plenty. 200 is just as good as 500. Anything over 50 is simply for marketing purposes as it doesn't add any audible differences/improvements.

 

DDDDAAAAAMMMMMNNNNNNNNIIIIIIITTTTTT MAN. i let you slide for this long. read what you freakin wrote or copied or whatever. what else can i say?

 

i looked and that just proved my point. as you can see the power drops with voltage. it is that simple. thanks for the help.

 

605 watts @ 14 volts;
601 watts @ 12.8 volts;
591 watts @ 10.5 volts

That is THE SAME! +-20W is MEANINGLESS!

As I said read and actually look into HOW the JL amp works and amps in general, you obviously haven't done that.

 

how can you possibly know if i have done that or not. dont make unfair judgements. and 20 watts may be relatively meaningless at 600 watts but how bout at 100 watts. and those numbers do not exactly reflect realworld application. the info is limited. i know that amps today have the ability to allow for realitively constant power outputs but they are not constant as shown by those numbers above.

 

I shouldn't have looked at JL's website because now I'm totally confused.

Here's a comparison of JL's 500 x 1 and RFs 500 x 1.

JL Audio
Rated Power:
500 W RMS @ 1.5 ohm-4 ohm
(11V-14.5V)
THD at Rated Power:
<0.05% @ 4 ohm

RF
500 W X 1 @ 4 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD
1000 W X 1 @ 2 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

First off, how is it that the power output is the same on the JL whether there's a 1.5 ohm load or a 4 ohm load? And same with the 11v-14.5v. Those are two variables that will greatly effect power output, not keep them constant.

I will give them credit for keeping the THD below .05% while RF keeps theirs at 1% although anything below 1% is inaudible to the human ear anyway.

Plus there are numerous other differences that are strange. I think it's weird how JL rates their amps. Perhaps I'm used to the old way. JL seems to be using some "New Way". I guess that's an easier way for a company to come in with an amp and have all their numbers blow all other amps away.

For instance..... They put most of the FREQ RANGE numbers on their amps from 5Hz-30KHz. I guess that's good if you were playin music for a dog (high pitch) or a whale (low pitch). A human can only hear from 20Hz-20KHz so why rate your amps outside that freq. range?

I dunno. I guess I'm used to the old way of K.I.S.S.

AJ

 

What can ya'll tell me about these amps?
Just the brand nothing specific I'm searching www.etronics.com for prices on 300-600W amps. The price for the goods looks like it ranges from 2-300 bucks. Check it out and tell me if you see anything good on that site.

>pyle

>lanzar

>California

>Pioneer

>power Acoustick

>Clarion

>Audiobahn

>Kicker

>Precision power

 

>pyle---havent head of

>lanzar---heard of but forgot what ive heard about them

>California--- california has nice beaches

>Pioneer ---- good quality

>power Acoustick ---- pretty decent amp, and look good with the built in neon lighiting

>Clarion----good for headunits never tried there amps

>Audiobahn----good as well.

>Kicker---good quality name brand

>Precision power---love them, im running a 10 year old pair of artist series and they kick.
Hope that helps ya

 

I agree with AJ, should have stayed away from JL site! Either these guys have made up their own laws of physics, or they are completely insane. Tyr to make those numbers work...they don't. I don't care what kind of circuits you are using, you can not change the current that drastically and not see a power ouput increase, same with the voltage.

The only thing they may be doing, is saying that at 1.5ohms, your voltage at 11 volts you get that rating, then the other end is 14.4 volts and 4 ohms...still not sure how that equals out though.

I think you should be wary of those ratings.

Redbird...stay away from Audiobahn, Pyle, California, and Power Acoustick. Audiobahn I have had many probs with, the rest are just low quality. Kicker is the best name in that group you gave. They produce good quality equipment.

 

Thats the whole point, it isn't using the same voltage, the rail voltage of the amp SWITCHES DEPENDING ON THE LOAD.


As I said before, READ, none of you saying the JL amp won't work like it does (even when shown bench tests of putting out identical power output) have read anything about how it works, or know how an amp actually works, and yes I can make that statement because if you would of read you wouldn't be saying what you are.

Think about what you just said.....
(20watts/600watts)*100 = 3%.

3%*100watts = 3watt variance.
20watt variance at 600watts is NOT the same as a 20watt variance at 100watts. False analogy.

 

since no one will find the info on their own....here is a quote from Brian in the Car Sound bench test of the amps.


I can't seem to find the posts over on the carsound forums where its talked about in detail, but if I run across them I will post them.


EDIT:
Here is another quote from Brians test of the 300/4;

 

Dude..... calm down.

I read all of it, but it explains nothing about why they would do such a thing.

I can understand the continuous voltage input by switching rails. That's a pretty good idea, but guess what. RF has done this for YEARS!!!!!!! They’ve done it a little differently by simply using a transformer, as well as MOSFET power supplies, but obviously that method causes noticeable fluctuations in output power otherwise they wouldn’t post different voltage supply specifications (although I can’t say that I’ve ever noticed). Seems JL has hit on something.

But to regulate the power output to a steady level regardless of resistance, that's strange. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just strange. What would be the benefit of doing that? So if you bridge the amp you WON'T gain any power? That makes a lot of sense (to someone that works at JL Audio ).

Again, I'm not ridiculing JL Audio, I’m questioning their methods. Obviously you understand them, so do tell.

AJ

 

Sorry, its just really aggravating when people sit and say a respectable company is completly lying about their amps potential without even doing some research on it, and then when given test data and brief explanation of how it does what it does, still say they are full of crap and such.

No I don't know all the details, of how they work, although I would very much like to. I do know they DO put out the same output with a wide range of input voltages and loads.

 

I hear you mcss383, some people just dont get it or cant except facts....ive been trying for a while to prove this point.

Aj i get what your saying..that is strange how it works but i think they really have hit on something and ran with it. Hopefully more companies figure this out.

 

why do some ppl insist on putting worlds in other ppls mouths? you are being disrespectful and you are lying. go back and see in this whole conversation where someone said JL is crap. when you do, you can come back into this conversation. until then....SHUT UP. no offense intended just dont make up stuff.

ok for the rest of what you said to back up my point:
stop saying that other ppl dont know how an amp works just cause you read a couple of reviews on some JL stuff. you are gonna **** some ppl off including me.
the numbers you gave us were not identical.

 

how is that a false analogy anyways? where in the article did it say ALL JL amps vary by that 3%? its great that you figured out using your excelent math skills that that amp has a 3% variance but learn when it actually applies to other circumstances.

and another thing, does the article mention how long the amp could withstand these numbers or if they were constant or max?

i understand how JL designs their amps, but dang man, you act like you are an expert.

 

Heres another quote from that site you are quoting.

I must say, even with that statement, it seems to be a rather impressive amp!
And mcss383, noone ever said they were lying or a crappy company. It was simply a question of what was stated on their site that was being discussed. I will admit, I was doubtful of these statements...still am a little, but it was never said they were lying.
Misleading was the word used.

This is the only class D amp even mentioned in the whole discussion here. If you are going to bring up this amp, you will need to compare it to other class D amplifiers.