alright, so ive never looked into capacitors and i would like to know a little about how the work in terms of an audio system, how to hook them up, and the voltage and farad rating that is the right kind to get....anyone help out? i dont understand what they mean by 14 volt and 24 volt....or how many farad is good..

 

Basically a capacitor is there to help save your battery and alternator.

What it does, is it collects energy from the battery and stores it, and when the bass hits hard it takes the drain from the capacitor and then it re-loads itself with power from the battery. This way your alternator is not taking a direct hit from the stereo. Capacitors are really only needed for larger systems..

They are measured in 1/2 farad, 1 farad and so on.. I think they go as high as 3.
Which is basically HUGE.

1/2 farad is suitable for smaller systems, like mine for instance. I have a 800w 2 channel amp with 2 Audiobahn 10's.. it doesn't drain much, but when I turn it up loud enough it does drain some, that was with my old battery though, now I have an Optima Red Top.

 

how do you wires a capacitor in ? where at ? inwhat wire(s)


please elaborate in dummy terms

a jpg or gif would be great too

thanks!

 

How to wire a capacitor. <-- Click me.

That should help alot, it even has a diagram for wiring in 2 capacitors for bigger setups.

Basically you directly ground the capacitor, run the power wire to the capacitor, and then another power wire out to the amplifier. Very simple to wire in.

How a capacitor works.

That link basically explains how a capacitor works, even though the capacitor shown is alot smaller than one that you would put in a car stereo setup, it is the same general idea.

I'm not entirely sure on the farad rating you should get, what kind of stereo do you have? How big? Those answers would probably help, although I am no expert on combining that kind of thing with a stereo.

EDIT: I wanted to add this to make sure you guys see this, or for anyone who plans on getting one and wiring it in themselves:



Just like that is how you charge it before hooking it up.

 

i have seen capacitors at least 5 farad....they go pretty high, why i dont know...but anyway. i will be running 2 1200w rms amps and 2 1000w rms subs....i read that you can go more than you need and it wont make a difference so i bought a 3 farad just to be sufficient....thanks for the wiring tips and all other info....

 

The same idea applies for discharge. When power is disconnected, the capacitor will store voltage potential and needs to be discharged before removal from the circuit. Instead of a meter & resistor, a light bulb connected across the capacitor may be used. When the light completely extinguishes, or meter reads zero, the capacitor is discharged and may safely be removed.

 

i might need one , i didnt hook up my new system but everything already dims when i turn on my lights heh , waiting to hook it up and see

 

Actually its microfarads.(MFD) They go very high, (30+) and are used for starting motors. They can stay charged and can knock the heck out of you. You can short the leads to discharge the capacitor for safe handling. Sounds like a good idea for cars if works like posted.

 

If you are having lights dimming, a cap is only going to mask the larger problem.
To properly fix headlight dimming, you need to do the big3 and then get a larger alternator.

Here are some explanations of the big3.

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...TID=73496&PN=1
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/u...=5;t=007801;p=

 

[QUOTE]Actually its microfarads. ...[QUOTE]

Actually, here they are talking Farads, not micro-farads.

And cdoyles got it right. If you have an adequate electrical system a cap will get you nothing. The FIRST thing you should do is the "BIG 3". Up grading the stock wiring more often then not takes care of it, unless you have a small alt. If thats not enough, think about big alts and go from there. Do it right and caps are a wast, do it half ... and caps can help cover up the problem. Just do it right.

 

I disagree to a point. Yes you need to upgrade the wiring in the engine bay. Also make sure that the correct gauge of wire is run from the battery to the electronics. Make sure the correct ground cable is used. But once that is done just adding a high powered alternator is not necessarily going fix the problem. When you are at idle or lower RPM the alternator does not put out its full rated power.

The most common symptom in need of added capacitance is headlight
dimming (and sometimes dimming of the interior/dash lights). It's
caused by a drop in system voltage associated with excessive current
draw. While there may indeed be several loads drawing substantial
amounts of current from the electrical system (eg. heat, AC, and so
forth), it's usually the transient draws that best manifest themselves
in noticeable dimming. This is partly because our visual systems are
most sensitive to detecting rapidly changing intensity levels rather
than steady absolute differences.

A commonly-used estimate for determining the appropriate size capacitor
is 1F/kW (one farad per kilowatt). For example, a system running at
300W would need a 0.3F (or 300,000uF) capacitor. However, there are
several variables at play here, including the capabilities of the
vehicle's electrical system (which generally varies from idle to higher
RPMs), the efficiency of the amplifiers, and the listening habits of
the user (ie. the tone controls and the type of music). These factors
should all be considered when making the determination.

This all being said, if you are still having a dimming
problem no amount of capactance will help as the voltage drop
at the electronics is to great. Now it is time to
look into adding a bigger alternator.

 

Matt is absolutely right, capacitors are a wast of time.

i've done a lot of work in a stereo shop and basically capacitors under 10 farads won't make a difference, 1-10 farads would last only about a second or two really. 10 i've seen last about 4 seconds at the longest. After it discharges its over. Even the 100 lasts only about 5 seconds on high power systems. The problem always comes that they never recharge fully at high volumes, so after a minute or so the cap just becomes a worthless box of silicone.

Upgrade your wiring (the big 3), and alternator, or its not worth it, especially not at the price of caps.

Any stereo technician that tells you anything under a 10 farad cap will FIX anything is out for the money, find a new one.

Good Luck!

By the way the largest cap i know of is 100 farads and its made by lanzar, also one by lightning audio (the brand names alone should hint that its about getting money not offering a good or useful product)

 

my vote would be for more effiecient amps, like Directed or similar.... less draw with the same output... you wouldn't need anymore supply, or could get away with 2batts and 2farads.... (i have seen a caviler with one solo barac comp X ($1500ea) pull a 164 off the seat with that set-up)... If you have more then that...MAN capz are the least of your worries...

windows
doors..LOL
panels


OH... if you want to see some huge caps, look at industrial junkyards, the biggest i have seen was 65,000est. F.... it was about as big as my bird....(the have smaller too...hint

 

Unless you're are running the smaller stock alt (forget the size) and small/cheep/old battery you should have enough power it run some good sized amps at idle. You just need to minimize voltage drop. A cap only cover this problem up. And often the larger caps have to high an ESR to be vary useful. Save your money. Upgrade all the power distribution wires. If you need more then that, the right way to handle things is a bigger alt that will put out more current at idle.

 

I will still stand by Capacitors. There is enough science behind them. I use Autosound 2000 tech briefs. I can't print them out here do to Copyrights and all. But Richard Clark and David Navone know their stuff. Here is a link to a reprint on caps.

http://www.monstercable.com/mpc/stab...Capacitors.pdf
----------
Whoops!!! Gave wrong link.


http://www.monstercable.com/mpc/stab...erformance.pdf

 

Your right, it is all science. It's late so I may need edit this tomorrow. There are a couple of things to keep in mined.

1. Monster sells caps. Not trying to say anything, just keep it in mind.

2.
To give credit quoted for the link you posted.

In the first sentence they point out that a cap would augment the power supply. If you build a good power delivery system, there is not need to augment it. May if you only had to pay $25.00 for that little extra, but not for what they go for.

In the second sentence they point out that it the impedance(resistance) of the power supply cause 'sag and drop out'. (see transient) These Resistances can be minimized for less then half the cost of car audio stiffening caps. Now remember these caps often have relatively high ESR. Run the math if you can find any that would actually post a real ESR figure and the high current drawl of the amp (higher current=higher voltage drop in the cap) and you'll see that the caps don't do as well as you my think.
Unless you buy a garbage amp it will have large enough caps right it, with a good power supply. There the third thing in line and all the amp should need. If you need more then the engineers put in the amp, you need a better power delivery system.
Remember, if you don't build up the power delivery part of thing you loosing power seen as voltage drop. The caps just trys to bust it for a sort, vary short, period of time. Doesn't it make more sense not to lost it in the first place?

Nice thread so fare. Lot of good info to both points. Don't see as Meany good threads. And it has been so time sense the last great cap debate. It was popping up every month or so.

 

I only used the monster sight to get the tech brief. What I have been trying to explain is that even with a proper power set up consisting of a good battery, good high output alternator, correct cable gauge, and distribution a capacitor with allow a better transient response from the "power delivery set up". I have not seen a car audio competitor in the last oh say at least 15 years not use some form of capacitor to augment there power supply. Wayne Harris of Orion and I believe Fosgate fame built the Terminator Hearse back in like 85ish. He used them there. Richard Clark with the famous Grand National that retired unbeaten had them. What I am trying to say is that there is to much science behind them and to many respected people using them and getting results with them. I understand that if you have your volume at 11 with the bass on 20 and are feeding the speakers the amps maximum clipped power then you are not utilizing the Caps for what they are for. They do not produce power. They store and discharge faster than the battery can supply it to amp during a transient peak. Is it worth spending money on? I guess the next question I would ask is, are you going to compete. If no then most likely you don't NEED a cap. Your headlights and dash lights may still dim. Even after an upgraded battery alternator an a good wiring job depending on how much power you are pushing. Gettin more efficient amps help but a thousand watt amp still uses a crap oad of power. Even at 13.8 volts you are looking at a lot of amperage draw with an 80% efficient Class D amp. If you do want to compete, I would get one. Though remember in the stock form a front soundstage is first and foremost. NEEDAZ is right though, make sure you research what you get. Claims are made by these companies that stretch the very limits of what is truth and an outright lie.

 

ling427, they go ALOT higher than 3 farad. and as people dont realize, a cap does not help much, because after the bass hits and it takes from the cap, it has to re-load that, which puts just as much strain on the alternator. caps are not all that good honestly.

 

i seen a realy cool looking 20 farad today =)

 

that's what people need to realize, if you have a weak electrical system. A cap is more harm then good. Just another thing that the already overloaded alt. has to charge.

A cap with an strong electrical system is helpful as mentioned above.

 

damn right

 

totally agree. A cap is just one more thing your electrical system has to charge.. And if your lights are dimming already, it means its already weak and a capacitor would only hinder it more

+1 to the big 3 wiring and getting an Optima Yellow top

 

And when you get into values like that, or the funny square caps, the ESR is typically to hight to make then vary good delivering at high current demands.

 

I wouldn't say that. At the point that the cap is getting charged the power demand of the amp would be low. There just not as useful as some people think, and cost way to much for what you get. If you could get a 'stiffing cap' for $20 I may even get one.

 

Junk and useless. If you have dimming lights, fix the problem.

 

Hey. Just putting my two cents in as a physics student (I know, I'm a dork). But let's say you have a 1 farad capacitor, the max energy that will be stored in it will be 98 Joules (1/2*C*V^2). That means, if you have a 1000W system, it will be able to provide power for less than 1/10 of a second, and after that, you're just running of your battery/alt again. And there are -a lot- of times when your subs will hit for longer than 1/10 of a second.

Just my two cents, I've never used a capacitor, but that's the physics behind it at least, and the reason why I think they're kind of pointless...so I agree with everyone else, fix the problem and don't try to cover it up.

 

this may sound stupid, but a capacitor is basiclly a small battery, right?
could you have a battery in the stock location run large wires the same way you would a capacitor to a battery in the trunk? you still would need a monster of an alternator or 2 but it would hold power longer, right?