Baron

Okay, here we go, once and for all. Please post your knowledge. Let's nail down exactly what each sub, 8, 10, 12, is good for. What I'm particularly interested in is differences like smoother bass guitar vs. thumping bass drum, generally higher/lower sounding, volume, and speed. Personally I'm looking for maybe a 10, as I want tight, low, responsive bass guitar, not so much the thumping bass drum (rap) stuff. Thanks a lot.

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'89 RS LO3- 140,000 miles
14x3 K&N Open Element
Ram stock replacement clutch
Edelbrock TES (Jet-hot coated)
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Edelbrock 3" Cat-back
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When your buddy reaches for a 10-pound sledge and says "I think we're gonna have to modify the floor pan, okay?" the answer is NO.

Pukka

Bigger is always better. Although awhile back I was quite impressed by some Kicker 8# subs in a box.

All you have to do is adjust the sound level going into the sub to what suits you.

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92 Camaro RS, LO3, 5-spd, T-tops

Performance:
K&N Open Air Filter, Edelbrock performer TBI intake, Fastchip Prom, Timing +4 degrees, Centerforce clutch, Xact 8mm wires, SLP 1 3/4" Headers (coated), Flowmaster Catback Exhaust, Z28 Grille w/aftmkt fog lamps, MacEwen white-face guages
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Alpine 8030 Alarm System, Valentine One Radar Detector (How did I ever drive without one?), Pioneer DEH 7450 Head Unit w/6-pack CD changer, Pioneer DEQ 7600 Sound Processor, 2 Kenwood KAC-846 Amps powering 2 12" Pro Red subs, 2 Pioneer 6x9 and 2 MTX 4x6 speakers.
NEXT UP: TBI mods, 3.42 gears w/Torsen posi

CAMp3RO

I beg to differ on the "bigger is better". the best bet is usually 10 or 12. 8s dont have enough low end, but they are the tightest hitting. tens are not quite as tight, but makes up for it with being able to hit lower. 12s usually are best bet, because they are have basically the best combination of tightness and low end. 15s become too boomy, and anything bigger is just too sloppy

Mike92RS

Enclosure type (sealed, ported, bandpass, folded horn, transmission line , etc.), and size also have a big inpact on the sound.

- Mike

HrdRockA4305

Ok, my opinions since you asked:

Bigger speaker = lower resonant frequency/deeper overall sound, generally louder than the same speaker of a smaller size, slower transient attack

Smaller speaker: faster attack/harder snap, not as deep sounding, moves less air so less overall SPL.

Ported box: Higher efficiency, punchier sound.

Sealed/Bandpass box: tighter but less impact and less efficiency. More cone movement control and sometimes more power handling. More resonant sound.

Resonant Bass: (i.e. rap/techno style bass)
Bigger is better, and sealed box is the way to go.

Snappy bass: (i.e., rock bass drum)
10s are the way to go, but 12's sometimes aren't bad. I've used both. Ported box all the way.

Sounds like for what you want, a good 10 in a ported box backed by whatever size amp the speaker is rated for is the way to go.

Chris Luongo

I've never had any really strong opinions favoring one woofer size over another...I just try to recommend whatever might best suit the combination of car type, music type, owner's budget, and trunk space.

If you just want to be able to listen to rock music and have it sound natural, a single 10" will be plenty. I would recommend a sealed box, only because you don't have a lot of extra trunk space. But there's nothing wrong with a ported box, either.

Do you have any friends who own subwoofer boxes? If so, try this: Park your car and your friend's car back to back. Remove his box, extend the speaker wires going to it if necessary, and put his box in your trunk. Tune both car radios to the same station. You may have to fiddle with both volume controls to get it to sound right...but this way you can sample different setups right in your own car.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Every sub sounds different. You need to audition them with music that you like.

As for 10s being "Faster" than 12s, that's a myth and nothing but. There's no "speed" involved with reproducing audio signals. They either can or can't do it. If a sub can reproduce a 100hz signal, it's not going to have any trouble with a 60hz signal. All sounds can be represented with sine waves, and if you look at a sine wave you'll see that there are no quick transitions. Everything is gradual, so the "speed" or "quickness" of a sub will only dictate it's upper frequency extention (higher frequency = faster movement) and nothing more. A 10" sub or 12" sub will both reproduce any given frequency within it's capability range the same.

What makes a 10" sub sound "quicker" or "faster" is it's lack of low bass extention. Low bass (i.e. 25-35hz) is tough to hear, and more or less just makes the music sound thick and slower. Since the bulk of the low frequency content in most music is in the 50-70hz range, reducing those lower frequencies a bit doesn't really make the music sound different, but does make it sound cleaner and quicker. You can achieve the same effects with a 1/3 octave EQ and to some extent even with box design. Similarly, you can help a 10" get that lower extention by using a bigger box and feeding a little more power to it.

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car killer

many subs (the same line) use different motor structures so no a 10 wont sound better than a 15 is all between the box and sub. I have heard both 10s and 15s in terms both in really good installs where the 15 had deep tighter bass. persoaly I like 15s and 12 because the bigger the cone the more air they push and the more air they push the louder they are. yes a 15 has a biger heavier cone but if in the right box with right amount of watts a 15 can sound really good. also ported boxes can sound just as good/better(depending on sub)than saealed boxes. I would recommend you get a 12.

StngKlr

Any sub is only as good as its box. Any sub will sound like junk in too small of a box, and any sub will most likely bust and rip the cone from the spider if its too big, but the sub size does not matter. Just build the box to manf. specs.

WideOpenVTwin

Bigger woofers give more bass with lower frequencies, but they also move slower in general. Smaller woofers don't hit as low but are more acurate. The reason for this is the acceleration time of the woofers mass.
Ported boxes give you more "loose" bass while sealed give less bass but with better acuracy and that "tight" sound.
I listen to classic rock, my favorate setup is a sealed 10".
Of course, this is VERY general, as box shape and material as well as speaker quality changes thing very much. I once heard some Virtual Technology 10's that hit like 15's!

[This message has been edited by Truckman (edited August 02, 2001).]

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Please refer to my post above.
Bigger woofers do not "move slower" in the way that you said. It's true that they are not capable of high speeds, which limits your high frequency extention but that has nothing to do with low bass reproduction or clarity. Sound waves are progressive in nature. They are not an instantaneous On/Off type of thing, so the acceleration of the sub is not an issue of any sort.

There's also no truth to smaller subs being more accurate. It's the design of the sub, and not the size that determines accuracy.

The differences in sound quality are based on the frequency response of the driver and nothing else. In a properly eq'd system, you'd never know if you were listening to a single 10" or a dozen 12's. If the frequency response was the same, the sound would be the same. If one really sounded better than the other, that's what every single competitor on the IASCA circuit would be using. Guys win SQ competitions with 18s.

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View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
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WideOpenVTwin

Please refer to my post above . . .
"Of course, this is VERY general"

I'm just making a general statement, sub design is of course the deciding factor.
"Moves slower" was a bad choice of words, accelerates slower is what I should have said, and it causes the bass to "lag" behind the rest of the music.
Given two speakers with identical designs, adding weight to one of the woofers would change the frequency response compared to the other

Ziggy89Formula

I have the same criteria as you, Baron. Strong, accurate, musical low end. No boomy resonant frequency boosted SPL winners. I have two Infinity Kappa 10"s in a sealed box with about .52 cu. ft per chamber, and an Alpine MRV-502 powering them with about 150 watts RMS per speaker. This combo is great for the type of bass you describe. Box volume has alot to do with it (for instance, mine may be a bit shallow), just stick to the manufacturer's suggestions. I would suggest a sealed design over ported.

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Baron

Thanks, Zig and everybody else...I'm thinking a truck box sealed 10 that will fit in the well nicely with a buttload of power...great bass here I come!!

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

This was a bad choice of words too then.
The bass doesn't 'lag'. If it were to 'lag' it would experience a phase shift, and I would challenge anybody with an oscilloscope to show me a phase shift between a 10" sub and a 12" sub.

More mass will shift the frequency response lower, but any frequencies within the window of either mass will not be effected at all. For example, if a sub has a +/- 3dB response from 50hz to 250hz, then more mass is introduced so that the +/- 3dB response is, say, 30hz to 200hz, all frequencies between 50hz and 200hz will be completely unchanged except for a possible slight change in output.

The only thing that changes between two otherwise comparable subs when changing size is the frequency response. If you EQ a 10" and a 12" to have the same frequency response, you'll never know what you're listening to unless you see the sub.


------------------
The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah