I got another amp today for my Kicks and got home and installed it. This amp in the pic is a 4-channel 75x4watt running 2subs and the other is a 50x2 that runs the kicks. While installing I thought I had another amp install kit but I didn't so I "daisy chained" the Power and Grounds from the amp in the pic to the 50x2. Anyway when I crank the volume the 4-channel Alpine 3554 kicks off. My other Alpine doesn't kick off but keeps on playing. I turn it down and the amp kicks back on. I'm also not sure if I wired the Subs up right but I think it's exactly how it was one time before. Is the amp kicking off because of the way the Subs are wired or because of the Power&Ground being "daisy-chained"? Here's a pic


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[This message has been edited by jobryan26 (edited November 19, 2001).]

 

i doubt its the problem, but i heard those metal connectors are *** , i would go with a distrobution block, or just use the frayed end of the wire, put one wire on one side of the amp, and the other on the other side of the screw, and tighten that down, thats what i did...

i have some distro's that i would sell for pretty cheap...

http://klayburn_kamaro.tripod.com/Blocks1.jpg
copy n paste...






[This message has been edited by KlayBuRn (edited November 19, 2001).]

 

try disconnecting the front speaker amp, then crank it. If sub amp still cuts, then you know the daisy chaining had nothing to do with it.

BTW, it's not an issue of using connectors vs bare wire. The power connections inside the amp are much smaller then the typical crimp on connector. But i agree, distro's would be a better long term, less "ghetto" solution.

mike

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custom 3rd gen kickpanels at
http://www.djsexay.com

 

Yea I'm going to get a distribution block tommorrow for my power and ground. Did I wire up my Speakers and RCAs right? I'll try disconnecting the other amp tommorrow. I'm starting to think I have it wired wrong. The speaker wires for both subs are on the top two screws. Here's another angle of the speaker wires.

I'll try disconnecting the other amp tommorrow.

 

Get better RCA cables! I changed mine to the cheapest Musica ones my monster cable I believe. They're like $18 for 16', they're thick and I'm very happy with them.

 

The RCAs are some BASS U.S.A. brand the installer put in. Same brand as the Power and Ground Wires. They look so crappy cause their faded from the sun cause my windows aren't tinted.

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testing new sig

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Looks like you have your subs wired in parallel. That's ok if your amp is stable at two Ohms, (if your speakers are 4 Ohms). Try to wire them in series. That is the amps + to one speakers +, and that speakers - to the other speakers +, and that speakers - to the amps -. That will raise your Ohms to 8,(if you have 4 Ohm subs). That should get rid of your problem.

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'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...
http://www.spinfrenzy.com/stingerssx...easures.html#4

 

Hey bud, That's what I'm wondering about cause I'm thinking it's running at 1ohm besides 2ohm's because the amp has 4-channels and they're bridged so that leaves 2 2ohm channels right? Then I'm thinking I'm bridging the bridged channels? My subs are 4ohm.

[This message has been edited by jobryan26 (edited November 20, 2001).]

 

Hey stingerssx I just tried to email you but your email address isn't working.

[This message has been edited by jobryan26 (edited November 20, 2001).]

 

On that second pic, the thing closest to you... what is that?! It looks like some melted plastic connector.

Does the amp feel really hot when it cuts off? You could be working it too hard.. but i do think that you have the speakers wired improperly.

 

Okay, if you are using 2 4 ohm subs and you have them wired in parallel, initially you have a 2 ohm load.

Now take that 2 ohm load and connect it to a bridged amplifier and because of the bridging you effectively cut your resistance in half again. So you are basically presenting your amp with a 1 ohm load which that amp most likely will not handle.

If you are using that amp for strictly your subs, I would wire it this way...

Bridge one set of 2 channels to a single sub and the other set to the second sub. This will now present the amp with a 2 ohm load on each bridged output rather than a 1 ohm load on only a single output. This should keep the amp running MUCH cooler and stop the shutdown problem.

Hope that makes sense as it is because I don't have time to fully explain the halfing again of the resistance on a bridged amp.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Sorry Grnprx, that is a myth. No, bridging does not change resistance. The speakers put out resistance, and the amp "sees" it. The amp has no control over the resistance present. If two 4 Ohm speakers are wired parallel, then they produce a 2 Ohm load. No matter how you set the amp up, the amp will "see" only 2 Ohms.

Unfortunatley Jobryan, you can't bridge, bridged 4 channel amps. The circutry won't alow it. My e-mail has changed to:
stingerssx@juno.com

 

You're correct in saying that the impendence of the sub does not change, but that is not what Grnprx is saying. Say you have a 2-channel amp and a 4 ohm SVC sub. If you wire the sub up to one of the channels, that channel sees a 4 ohm load. But if you bridge the sub across both of the channels, the AMP sees a 4 ohm mono load, but EACH of the CHANNELS sees a 2 ohm load. You can kind of think of the impendence being "split" between the two channels, so that each channel sees half of the sub's impendence.

- Mike

 

double post...

[This message has been edited by Mike92RS (edited November 20, 2001).]

 

Okay, first off it is not a myth the way it was meant to be explained. The load that is presented to the amp is 2 ohm mono or 1 ohm stereo. That is the way it should have been worded.

That Alpine amp can not handle 1 ohm stereo in any way shape or form.

Second, you can bridge most 4 channel amps to run as a 2 channel all day long. Very few amplifiers on the market today are unable to be bridged and you can even clearly see in his pictures that it offers you the diagram for + and - bridging connections.

So as I stated before, if you wire each sub bridged to it's own channel, this will present the amp with a 4ohm mono 2 OHM STEREO load on each channel which that amp 'should' be able to handle fine.

l8rs




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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Here, I don't have time to type it all out and someone else has explained it in great detail...so go read if you want to clear up the "myth" of bridging.

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/bridging.htm

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Carl
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Thanks guys I just figured it out or you prob. told me but hadn't clicked yet. The only thing I had to do was move one set of the speaker wires to the lower termials. With the wires like in the pic I was only using half of amp and it was bridged making 2ohms and then by running the speaker wires parallel off that bridge was causing it to drop to 1ohm which was causing my amp to kick off. If feel stupid now or made somthing so simple really complicated. By placing the rca's like I have them (Right input on channel #1 and the Left input on channel #4) allowed me to use just one set of RCA's to feed all four channels. Then run just one speaker off each bridged channel. Just like GndPrx said. Thanks bud!

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[This message has been edited by jobryan26 (edited November 21, 2001).]

 

Grnprx, I never said that you can't bridge a four channel amp down to two channels, I said that no four channel amp can be bridged down to one channel. Sorry to hear that you've been taken by all of the people who sell Rockwood, and Kenford, and Crunch,(and all of the other low quality equipment) and belive them when you tell them that you set your system up for a two Ohm load, and their amp took a dump, then they tell you that you hooked it up wrong, saying that bridging drops the load.

Mike92rs, it doesn't matter wether your looking at it as a stereo, or a mono load on the amp, it's being bridged, which makes it a mono load. The only time you would have to worry about that is when you have the amp running in stereo, powering two seperate speakers, and then one bridged speaker over that. If you have a bridged amp running a four Ohm load, then the load present on the amp is four Ohms. You don't split the resistance between two channels that have been turned into only one.
I have an Alpine V12 MRV1000 that is suposed to only be able to handle a four ohm load when bridged. That means that with the one four Ohm 15 that it's running, the amp would "see" two Ohms, which would damage the amp. It's bridged, and can run all day long with out getting hot. It gets warm, but not more than that.

 

To be continued...I had everything typed up to clarify Stingers' misleadings and IE crapped out....

[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 21, 2001).]

 

Okay, let's try this again....

First off, you simply said that "you can't bridge 4 channel amps" You never said that ou can't bridge a 4 channel amp down to only one channel...if you had then I wouldn't even have mentioned it in the last post.

Second, if you want to try and argue something, post facts to back up your argument. I believe I did that if anyone had actually gone and read the link that I posted. Instead you choose to try and degrade someone by throwing out that I get my knowledge from flea market brand equipment. I'm not even going to argue that comment as most people on this board know what is true and what is childishness.

Now, go brush up on your ohms law, go figure out what AND'ing is and why when you bridge an amp you recieve double the AC voltage from the rails and be sure to understand what a phase is in a sine wave and I will be more than happy to have a serious debate with you if you so desire. But I hope you have all of your facts in order because to this point you have been just inacurate.

P=E2/R

That variant on ohm's law is all that is needed to figure out the rest.

IMPORTANT NOTE! Now mind you that the impedance doesn't actually "change" but the terminology is what changes. It makes 100% difference if an amplifier is marked as 2 ohm mono stable rather than 2 ohm stereo stable. This type of misleading lables are what prompt people like stinger to bring up flea market brand equipment.
Enjoy.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 21, 2001).]

 

I read it GbdPrx! I didn't understand a damned thing but I read it. LMAO It was 2:00a.m. when I read it so I guess that's why. I'll read it again when I wake up. Thanks again Carl

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jobryan, I figured most people did go at least look at it. My comment was directed towards someone who was attempting to tell me that I didnt' have a clue.

Just remember, that yes your resistance doesn't physically change, and technically when you bridge an amp there is no longer a distinction between the channels, but in a perfect world where you could trust everyone, it wouldn't be an issue of misleading information on equipment. Mono load is the resistance on that single channel or bridged channel, STEREO BRIDGED is each individual channel playing to half of the resistance that is presented to the pair of bridged channels...hence the halfing I was refering to.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 21, 2001).] Ugg I can't spell today.

[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 21, 2001).]

 

Grnprx, before you get your little panties in a bunch, read what I wrote. Yes I did take a look at that link, I didn't see any relevance to this situation.

What you need to see is when I first said that you can't bridge an already bridged four channel amp. If four channels are bridged down to two channels, you can't bridge those two further down to one. Second when the amp is physically bridged by a switch, or a button, there is no stereo resistance because you're combining both channels. Like I've stated before, that only applies when you run a mono load off of a stereo load. For example:

Two channel amp, runnig kick panels, one sub off of both channels.

Sorry to confuse you. I didn't mean to say that you have no knowledge, I meant to say I feel sorry for who ever gets mislead by the "flea-market crap".

 

Stinger,

It seems that this has been a miscommunication between us, however it did appear that you were attacking me by some of the things that were said. This is the reason that I became agitated and I'm sorry if I came off like an a$$ hole, because that is not generally me.

The link was an explanation of how bridging works and why that "myth" as you had called it was in fact true the way that it was meant to be described (mono vs. stereo bridged) and it was inteded to clear up the air on that dispute. Hence it was relevant

Either way, my original solution for him was in fact what he needed to do and I belive that he found that out already, so this should now become a dead post.

Sorry for the bitc h session.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
CarAudio Resources Forums are now ONLINE!

 

Yep it's fixed and I do appreciate everyones help. Thanks too all and "Happy Thanksgiving!"

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[This message has been edited by jobryan26 (edited November 21, 2001).]