db057

Hi it's me again, a situation one after another but I'm determined. As in another post of mine, the car idles pretty high, I managed to adjust the idle screw (having the IAC fully extended then unplugged) and I got it down to 750 in drive, but when I plug it back in, in park may go between 1500 to 2000 when warmed up but still sits around 1200 in drive without gas. almost feel like its compensating for something. Okay light rapid tick sound upon start up and a few times when revving the gas. thought was lifters, but couldn't pinpoint with my stethoscope. the bushing on the distributor shaft wiggled so thought maybe this was a problem. also when I had the timing light on and set it to TDC 0 , had a slight fluctuation in idle with the ESC brown wire unplugged. so looked up stuff thought maybe the distributor is just worn so I went and bought another. now it fluctuations pretty often when I have the timing light on it at 0 TDC may go up to I think its the 4 mark (in the direction of the passenger side) and then back and then maybe in the middle. I didn't hear with my scope any abnormal sounds from the timing chain cover. fuel injectors are pretty loud. does run a bit rough seems to have some delay in acceleration. no engine codes though.. so I don't know. not sure if it is a timing chain problem. or is it not adjusting the spark with knock. maybe that's spark knock I am hearing because with the new distributer until I advanced the timing a bit, you can hit a tap tap tap sound, well it's hard to describe more like a tick tick (but not that lifter tick) the other distributer cap had some crusty stuff on the terminals all the terminals (and that cap maybe 2 -3 weeks old).. I don't know what's the timing issue fluctuation.

EGR valve does move when you rev it, but I just hate replacing every part., I tested engine vacuum through the manifold, was steady between 18 and 20 and dropped when you rev it then slowly back up or just back up if you rev and let go.

I appreciate all the help from everyone. any help on this one would be great.

the engine knock (thud sound felt) was actually when I put my left valve cover back on I had bent part of the inside where it goes over a rocker arm so it was hitting that, since then I bent it back and no more thud sounds so that case is solved.

also replaced the breaker with a 12 gauge link wire.. seems to be okay so far (with the alternator problem).

now this timing problem. or something. I don't know what else to replace. timing chain, ESC module, knock sensor, injectors. haven't yet tho. I got the TBI gasket rebuilt kit so replaced all the gaskets on the throttle body too.

db057

it doesn't misfire or putt putt. little shakey idle (but still higher idle than I like). can tell there's some hesitation . oh and replaced TPS sensor as well.. feel like the timing is off .

Schurkey

Remove distributor cap, leave rotor in place.

Turn crankshaft clockwise viewed from the front, until timing mark exactly aligns with "0" mark on timing pointer. Note position of distributor rotor.

Turn crankshaft counter-clockwise (backwards) S-L-O-W-L-Y as you WATCH THE ROTOR. The instant the rotor begins to move, STOP turning the crankshaft. Read the degrees of timing chain slop on the timing pointer. 0--5 degrees is acceptable. 6--9 degrees is worn, and the timing chain should be replaced especially at the higher end of that range. I will not tolerate 10+ degrees of slop.




To be completely accurate, some small amount of the indicated slop can be between the cam gear and the distributor gear. NORMALLY this isn't enough to worry about. If your engine is showing excess slop, one of the first things you're going to do to tear the engine down is to remove the distributor, and then you can inspect the distributor gear for excess wear.

db057

Thanks. I'll check that out in the daylight. When I had rotated the crankshaft before (but didn't really pay attention to the slack) I feel like the rotor point doesn't point right when I have it at TDC. In my old Camaro (same year and engine) the rotor pointed more diagonally when the shaft was at TDC (had taken out spark plug, put pencil in and went right through). but on this Camaro it points more directly towards the front , straight-way. Maybe that doesn't matter or not, but when I try to set it at the 1st cylinder, I feel like I am slamming the ignition coil wires into the back wall. I do know when I set the timing to even out the idle, it's set I think either at the 4 part or 6, (like 3 lines over from where the 0 mark is). Never misfires or backfires, just some hesitation, or takes a second before it picks up power. and baseline idle is still a bit too high. can feel it wanting ot move the car, and especially hard to brake. I'm leaning towards a chain or intake manifold (unless its some major engine problem). I've checked or replace almost everything else. I've sprayed around the throttle body (replaced all gaskets) and sprayed around the intake except the back side where I can't reach.

I'll check the distributor problem out tomorrow and I'll post what it did.

I did take out the old distributor and gear and put in a new one.. the gear looks a little worn/used but nothing excessive I can tell. the shaft was a bit wobbly (you can move it a hair from side to side) but I replaced it since and nothing improved with that

Ron U.S.M.C.

I'm sure Schurkey is right on the money,
but I'm concerned about the timing and min. Idle speed.


So timing is set to stock setting. My TBI, E vin. auto is "0". Setting it at operating temperature.


After that Min. Idle Speed is next.
So your warming the car to operating temperature ,disconnecting the EST wire. Shut it down. Jump the A and B connecters and turning the key to "ON" position (not starting), allowing at least 30 seconds for the IACV to bottom out . Then pulling the IACV connecter. Turn off the key and pull the jumper.




You need a digital tach. A digital timing gun with RPM feature is best.
I set mine to 700 rpm in park using the stop screw. At operating temperature.
Plug in the EST wire . Shut the car off and plug the IACV connecter back in.
Start the car.


If your using the stock air cleaner assembly the little hose that comes off the TBI connects to this sensor needs to be in place.
I just set my cleaner assembly off to the side a little and made adjustments/performed the procedure.
If your not using the stock set up than just cap the nipple off and follow the procedure.

db057

Yea I have the same. Vin. E and stock air cleaner housing. I wanted stock because I was able to get 19mpg in town, 24 half/half and 29 on highway with the way I had tuned up and worked on the Camaro I used to have. but since I got this, there's just been something wrong. I had did what you explained and turned the crankshaft back after it I put it on tdc 0 and there seemed to be some slack before it turned the rotor, although I can't determine exactly how much. I will try to readjust the timing/idle how you said again and see if that makes a different , if not, I may just go ahead and replace the timing chain. also thinking on replaced the intake manifold gaskets (and sealent front-back which is what I am more concerned about a possible leak) because theres no coolant from the sides. not a big task.. crankshaft bolt is a pain to pop loose tho. but Ill try and readjust the timing/idle as you said first

db057

hey ron, you said you had a VIN E , could you do me a favor? is there a way you can snap a photo of the ignition coil, from the top and if you can (even if it's at an angle) from the side. the ignition coil bracket was not on this Camaro (someone had something rigged up) and ive been trying to find the bracket and no where I can find it. I called hawks and they thought they had one but I didn't really have a good picture I could find and then the one they sent is not for TBI, its a TPI one (I could have pulled off at the junkyard locally I had found). I try to explain it sits low and the bracket bolts directly onto the intake manifold. because even the TBI ignition coils out of a truck, the bracket raises the ignition coil too high and that doesn't work. if you can, that would be much appreciative. thanks

Ron U.S.M.C.

No problem.
I will search my archives and see what I can find.
If I don't find one I will take a photo tomorrow.


Also, It took me a minute to figure it out but the paperclip I was using had a "very" thin clear plastic coating. It would not work as a jumper like that.
If you use a paperclip look closely for the cover and shave it off.

Darren1

Hi Ron,
I have a stroked 383 with many mods.
I have replaced every sensor part I know of. I still have a loping idle after triple checking the IAC and TPS.
the car ran beautifully when i bought it a few years ago.
As I try to figure out the loping idle (will die occasionally) I have discovered the timing will not change as i move the throttle. Motor bogs and then Wam! the timing jumps to around 30deg tdc. and the motor screams to life. I have put in a new distributer, plugs, wires, coil.
Any ideas why the timing won't move and then jumps some 20 deg. instantly??
Also for your knowledge the distributor has no mechanical advance weights.
Thanks

db057

Thanks Ron . I appreciate that. I tried to set the base idle again, but it just compensates and then hangs around 12 rpms in drive, higher in idle. the base timing doesn't stay at 0, it fluctuates. I may just go ahead and take out that timing chain and replace it.

Ron U.S.M.C.

These are the best photos I could get.
I want to include a shot of the bay just for kicks.
So the metal plate has ether a hole or a cutout in it for the bolt to slide through that extends under the linkage assembly/etc.I cant remember.

Ron U.S.M.C.

.

db057

Okay. So I changed the timing chain, made sure the dots matched on both gears, think it's even better aligned. the old chain was nasty and lots of slack. put it all together, now it just won't start.. when it catches, it putts very little (no backfire, misfire, or flame shooting through carb yet) just very little putt putt before it just dies. it was set at tdc, but now I don't know. I can check again, turn the flywheel, take out spark 1 and make sure it's really tdc.. otherwise is there any other secrets to getting it to start

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If you left the timing gears set dot-to-dot, that is TDC # 6.

With both timing gear dots at 12-o'clock, that is TDC #1.

RBob.