i want to get the 670 street avenger carb for my setup (below). will this carb be sufficient enough?


350 0.30 over- 55235 APRROX MILES
210cc aluminum heads 2.02/1.60 valves- PRO COMP.
Roller rocker arms-3/8 1.5 RATIO
Edelbrock cam .488/510 duration is 230/240-FLAT TAPPET
Air gap intake-MATCHED PORTS
Msd ignirion
14* base timing
Hooker headers to true duals- HOOKER HEADERS 25/8 PRIMES TO 3 INCH
Stripped interior of anything usless
Procar racing seats

7.5 TEN BOLT WITH 28 SPLINE MOSER AXLES C CLIP ELIMINATORS
3.73 gears- DETROIT LOCKER
275/15 rear drag radials
Turbo 350 trans
2800 stall-
STOCK SUSPENSION WITH FRONT SWAY BAR REMOVED
UNSURE COMPRESSION MAYB 9.8-10.1ISH

 

Hmmm, I don't know, it will work, but I personally would go with a Holley, Quick Fuel, or Demon 650 double pumper. You have a nice engine which should make pretty good power, why put a vacuum secondary carb on it?

 

Its an auto with a relatively light cam like he has a vacuum secondary carb is okay.

BTW Cosmik....A street Avenger is a holley.

A 670 will be fine, you will likely have to mess with jets for optimal performance. What id your CR?

 

Yeah a vacuum secondary is OK, just not optimal. As "five kid" says often on these boards, unless your vehicle is very heavy or you have a tow vehicle you will do better with mechanical secondaries. A matter of opinion I know.

Yeah I know an avenger is a Holley, where did I indicate otherwise?

 

Maybe I misunderstood. Doesn't matter.

 

I'd worry more about the cam than the carb (although I prefer the double pumpers too). That cam is going to leave a lot on the table.

 

im not sure on the compression ratio. whats "left on the table" with the cam? im new to running performance stuff. my goal is a 12 second car and ill be happy with that. which double pumper is best for my application?

 

If the cam is 230/240 @ 50 that isn't too bad, but if it's total duration it isn't much. I'd go for a 650 double pumper of any of the makes I suggested before. A 750 would probably be OK too.

 

hes saying the intake runners on the heads are quite large for a relatively mild cam. The choice of heads would like to see a much more aggressive cam in order to produce the power that the 355 is capable of. You are under utilizing those heads with that cam, you would be much better of with a 195 runner if you intend on running on the street.

650-750 should be fine. If you opt for a 750 look for annular boosters. The venturi are larger in a 750 and its not as simple to get the proper booster signal on top 350cid.

If you dont know the Compression ratio it leaves a lot untold. You could be in quite a different performance bracket if you where say 8.5:1 compared to 11.5:1

Whats your stall?

The 7102 cam is a standard street cam designed for drivability and a boost in performance. Edelbrock recommends a Performer RPM manifold, Performer Series carburetor #1407 , 1-3/4" headers, and a curvable distributor.

You will have a hard time running that engine right without a pro-billet distributor, or equivalent in which you are able to change timing curves and not just adjust shift the curve like on the base line MSD distributors and street fires.

 

If your compression ends up around 9:1, I would be looking at something around 226@.050 and lobe lift right around .500 (intake and exhaust). LSA should be 108. If you can get the compression up to 10.5:1, then 246@.050 and .550 lift is achievable on the same LSA. I think the Edelbrock cam combined with large runners and lower compression is not going to be the best. It will run, but there is more to be had.

 

stall is 2800, so basically i got a shitty cam and oversized heads? i got a standard accel dist with the dui coil. i was told since i have a msd box and timing retard control in the car that i dont need the vaccum advance for the distributor.

 

Yea, your heads are a little over-sized. You are going to need quite a large came to take advantage of the size of the intake runners.

The cam is not shitty, its just very mild compared to the rest of your setup. You setup is not reaching full potential because of the cam and might not ever reach full potential because of the heads.

I am not familiar with accel distributors, but you need to make sure you have one in which you manipulate and change the timing "curve" not just "shift" the curve that it has. Usually this is done with offset bushings, pins, and weights.

You really never "need" vacuum advance. Helps with economy and helps some drivability. Sometimes you can manipulate your vacuum advance to add initial timing in order to change the timing curve on a distributor that doesn't normally accept timing curve changes.

 

I don't know that I would call the cam shitty, just outdated and not matching the rest of your combo. I don't know much about the heads, so I can't say if they are too large or not. There are lots of different ways to get CC's in a cylinder head. Some will slow down the velocity and some wont. I have no problems with your ignition setup except that there is no vacuum advance. In my mind, that is a must with cam selection #2. With #1, you could run high intial and really limit the mechanical so you don't go over 36 total.

It will come down to what you want to change and what you want out of the car. If you don't want to change the converter and you prefer a street oriented car, then your cam should reflect that. My first suggestion is just that...a suggestion. Call a cam grinder. Personally, I use Mike Jones (JRC), but there are many others. If you are willing to sacrifice a little streetability for max performance, then get the compression up, get a cam closer to my second example and about 1000 more RPM stall.

 

so with the current setup i wouldnt even be close to acheiving my low 12 goal? im not looking for a strip car or a daily driver. i like to go cruise and go to the track maybe 5 times a year if that. im also not sure what u mean by changing the things in the distributor. i dont get more then 38 total timing the way its set, so not sure if it will work as is. i appreciate the help so keep it coming head specs.

Intake Valve Dia: 2.02”
IntakePort volume: 210cc
IntakePort Dim: 2.247” x 1.218”
IntPort Location: Stock
Intake Gasket: Fel-Pro# 1266 seems to work better than the Fel Pro 1206 The 1266 is the same gasket as the 1206 but much thicker.
Exh Valve Dia.: 1.600”
ExhPort volume: 70cc
ExhaustPort Dim: 1.356” x 1.420” w
ExhPort Location: Stock location & bolt pattern
Exhaust Gasket: Fel-Pro# 1405
Flow, Intake: 264cfm @ .700” lift / 28”
Flow, Exhaust: 152cfm @ .700” lift / 28”
Head Bolts: Must use extended reach with true head bolt washers or head studs. See our other listings for accessories.
Head Studs: PC-2451-STUDS (12pt)
Manifold: MOST ANY
Milling: Min. Down to 58cc = .060” (.0065” = 1cc) Flat Mill
Pistons: Most 23°aftermarket pistons.
Push Rod length: 7.9" (also known as +100)
Push rod Guide Plate: We strongly recommend adjustable guide plates. You may use raised fixed guide plates, but adj. plates are much prefer ed.
Retainers: Steel 10°
Spark Plug: Angle or straight, .750” reach, gasket, Autolite 5224 or equivlent.
Spring Pockets: 1.550” OD (.030” deeper max)
Springs: Our Assembly: 1.44 outer diameter. single with a damper for hyd. flat tappet cams. setups are available for hyd. roller cams.

Valve Length: 5.015” (+.100”) for hyd. flat tappet cams or + .200 for hyd. roller cams
Valve Stem Dia: .3415” - 11/32”
Valve Train: STD SBC 3/8” or 7/16” stud mount
Valve Guides: 1/2” OD Int = Mag-bronze Exh = Phos-bronze (.002” press)
Valve Guide length: 1.950”
Valve Guide clearance: .0014” - .002” (with our .3415 dia. valve stem)
Valve Guide Spacing: 1.890” moved .030” from stock
Valve Seats: Hardened Ductile Iron, .006” press
Valve Seat dim. Standard
Valve Seat angles: Int = 32° - 45° - 60° - 70° Exh = 37° - 45° - radius
Stud Girdle: Use any standard girdle
Torque: Head Bolts = 65 ft/lb
Rocker Studs = 55 ft/lb with fixed guide plates, and 60 ft/lb when using adjustable guide plates.
Manifold = 35 ft/lb
Block Use: Any SBC Iron or Aluminum
Weight: 62 lbs fully assembled pair.

 

A setup for camshaft #2 could get you into the low 12's with traction. Cam #1 (or your current Edelbrock) will not. Possibly a 12.9...but low 13's is more likely. Looking at the head specs, the one thing that sticks out is a 2.02" valve in a 210cc head. That seems like a bad idea to me. But, they should work just fine for you. If you have flat top pistons, you could mill these down to 60cc and get the compression up to 10:1 (or a little more). That will help you achieve your goals.

My car generally runs 12.0 in summer weather (went 11.60 at sea level in good weather). 10.5:1, ported AFR 190's, ported air gap, 750 mighty demon, 3600 stall, 4.10's, 236/242 roller with .580" lift. My car weighs right around 3400 with me in it. That should give you an idea of what it will take.

 

damn wasted money yet again

 

just thrown it out there i have the 600cc performer carb on it now, that wouldnt be suffiecent enough for "strip time" nor street would it?
also i cant seem to find the double pumpers for holley all i see is the 750 4150hp model..anyone know other model numbers?

 

4150 is the double pumper model. A 650 or 750 would work just fine.

This engine isn't assembled, correct? There is still time to get what you want (in regards to performance). Shave heads to get compression up. A better matched camshaft. The right carb and maybe a converter (although, the 2800 may flash higher than that, so you could be okay). I think lower 12's in good weather is very achievable.

 

any preferred makes of cam? i like the lunati voodoo ones.

 

Not exactly. 4150 refers to metering blocks (replaceable jets) on both primary and secondary. Some vacuum secondary Holleys are 4150, including the HP series. http://www.holley.com/types/4150%20HP%20Series.asp Others changed over the years. For instance, the 3310-1 was a 4150, but the 3310-2 through -7 were 4160 versions. All 3310's were vacuum secondary. http://www.holley.com/data/TechServi...%20Listing.pdf

 

I would call Mike Jones (www.jonescams.com). The price for a custom cam is about the same for an off the shelf grind. Plus, Mike can fill you in on the appropriate springs, retainers etc. Maybe he can get a decent cam to work with your existing springs. If you prefer an off the shelf grind, I have heard lots of good things about the Voodoo cams, but I have no personal experience.

 

i thought about it and im going to make my car a street vehicle. so with that in mind would the cam still be hurting me on the street level? and would i be better off with a vac secondary 670 over the 750 dp for streetable performance? this cam what im looking for?Lunati 10120703LK - Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits

 

iLife that cam for a street car. For a carb, I am partial to the Demon carbs. However, a 650 double pumper would be good too. The key is to spend time dialing the carb in. And, as 57kid said, the 4150 can be a double pumper or vacuum. I was having a senior moment!

 

which cam for a street car? the current or the lunati? and this carb?HLY-0-4777C

 

Thing is you have large intake runners on a relatively low quality head. Its going to take quite a bit to get air velocity going in the large runner even more so in a lower quality head. They will react quite sluggishly from a standstill.

To take advantage of the larger runners you almost always need more displacement.

The magic combination is a quality head with good flow numbers at a lower intake runner size. Which you can take advantage of the flow, and the smaller runner for increased torque and throttle response. Something like an AFR 190 or 195. Or Brodix IK200

With your heads now you will need a cam of up to .600 lift to really take advantage of the power they can possibly make. This will also counteract street-ability and low RPM responsiveness and power.

The cam you have is fine for the street no need to get another cam with similar specs. If it was me I would look into getting heads with a smaller runner size. Getting that Vodoo cam will just be a waste of money though I would rather have a lunati cam than a edelbrock. You wont be making much more power.


And above all that Figure out what CR you are running. Very important.

 

ok ill look into the other issues and see what i can do. i also have have n.o.s but want a 12.9-12.0 car and use bottle for fun

 

You should not have a problem hitting that goal with a decent set of drag radials given you compression ratio is within a reasonable range and you actually speak to a cam reperesentative to get you the exact cam you need. There are thousands of cams on the market, while people here are generally knowlegable they are not the manufacturer and they are not going to be able to pinpoint you best option.

 

i was talking to a buddy bout the cam and he said to possibly degree it to make it work for my setup. i never done it or know what it entitles, is that even possible?

 

You should degree a cam when you install it. You dont need to but its recommended. Its stoll going to be the same cam reguardless of what you do, degreeing correctly allows it to run as desired.

Usually + or - 4º advance for more bottom end, retard for more up top. U need a degreeing wheel or adjustable timing gears, or bushings. Some cams like a different degree usually your cam card will state what degree to run it at.

My cam is running at 4 deg. advance.