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350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Old 09-08-2018, 10:50 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

that's why i said "a cheap 305" ,i dont know what part of the world you live in but a shitty swirlport 350 is $500/$800 here most of the time
and i have never witnessed anyone give a 305 away,that's why i grabbed that lb9 out of a 92 t/a,it was $300. i sold a couple parts
i didn't need off it for $200 so in the end ive got a replacement 305 lb9 for $100 with 100,000 km on it.it has a b.n alternator,starter etc
and has already saved me a bundle on buying parts here and there.

any vortec 350 truck motor around here is around $1000 and most of them are high mileage and boiled over/overheated/run into the ground or non vortec swirlport pos.
i dont know if you are aware of the phenomenon but geographically things arent the same price/availability everywhere.if you want to drive your car NOW and
can get a running,low mileage lb9 305 to tide you over for a couple hundred and and not wait until you can find the "ideal" engine.....i stand by what i said

the last thing this hobby needs is another third gen sitting on jack-stands ,or knee deep in grass rotting,hoodrats throwing rocks through the windows or stripping off parts to buy meth
while an owner gets more and more frustrated then the wife gets more and more bitchy and says "get rid of that "f^%king thing,it dont run anyway"
or the neighbors/city start complain.i know i cant have a non-running anything sitting in my driveway were i live.

i love the "dont bother with a 305 ,just put a 350 and if your doing that just put a 383 mantra" but it just isn't practical or doable in many cases especially
when a 305 is there already or available for the price of a used intake and capable of making decent power without a lot of issues and insane cost.
yes,i want a vortec 350 ,lt1 or ls but i dont have the financial means to do it(right now),neither do a lot of other people.i dream big but live practical.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:54 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Originally Posted by Gompeh View Post
. I also though absot putting a 305 in the car. ..
Not a bad idea at all. I did just that when one of my 350's was in the machine shop. All of the bolt on parts swapped over: headers, intake and carb, accessories etc. I putted around with that until I had the fresh 355 shortblock re-assembled and had gathered up all of the new bits to go with it.
As has been suggested here, a 305 might come to you on the cheap because few people want them.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:01 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

agreed,not ideal but cheap and easy and they seem to be running when you get them.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:05 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

DON'T put a 305 in your car. Cheeeeep, freeeee, even if somebody PAYS YOU to do it. It's a BACKWARDS move. It is A BAD IDEA in every way.

Doesn't matter how little the "305" costs. You will spend EXACTLY as much putting it in your car, as you will a 350. Fluids, belts, missing parts, might-as-wells, and so forth. EVERY DIME you put into a 305, cheeeep" or even "free", just moves you ONE DIME farther from what it is you REALLY want.

Learn to delay your instant gratification; set a goal; and FOCUS on it. (yes I have adult children)

DON'T put a 305 in your car.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:08 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues


FINALLY got the stupid wheel locks off. Couldnt hammer a socket on so i had to cut i to them with an angle grinder, coat it in pb blaster, coat it in pb blaster, coat it in pb blaster again and then wedge a chisel in the slot and smack it with a 4 pound sledge. Holy crap that was the worst
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Old 09-08-2018, 01:12 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Those are pretty eeeeezy...

Just drill the studs out of em. If they're on they're that tight, odds are, you need new studs anyway; not really losing anything precious by erasing them. Start with a small bit in the center, like 1/8"; then 1/4"; keep getting larger until they fall off. Only takes acoupla minutes. ZERO risk of damaging the wheel.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:08 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

The wheels are already pretty banged up. Scratches and gouges all over, whoever owned this car before me didnt take the best care of it. Also, this 350 is officially dead. Pulled the pistons and crank out today and its just more bad news. When they out the pistons in the must have heated up the rods to make the hole bigger for the pin that connects the piston to the rod. Number 8 and 6 are a nice blue steel color and 6 takes a lot more force than there should be to rotate it. 8 rotates way better than any of the others weird enough so idk if they shaved the connecting rod down or what. A new rotating assembly is more than i can afford so im going to try and find a used 350 or try and pull one from a yard. Not sure if ill be able to find a decent one but ill try and keep you guys posted
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Old 09-09-2018, 12:44 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

It looks like whoever assembled those pistons and rods used a oxy-acetylene torch IMPROPERLY, instead of the proper rod heater.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:37 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Right: the rods have to be heated, to put the pin in; the small end is about .002" or so smaller than the pin, so the usual deal is to use dry ice on the pin and an induction heater on the rod; but it looks like somebody was real enthusiastic with a torch instead, but probably didn't freeze the pin and so had to excessively heat the rod. Or maybe just liked [beavis]fire[/beavis].

Some degree of variance in the pin fit in the pistons is normal. Usually if it's loose enough to move by hand at all, it'll loosen up and work fine in the motor once it's running.

Still, looks pretty ham-handed.
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:29 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Hi everyone. So my school term is almost over and ill be going back to work in January. I've been able to get a scholarship that will allow me to spend some extra money on the Trans Am.

Im going to be putting a crate engine in (probably from blueprint engines) that makes in the neighborhood of 400 HP and but on an edelbrock intake and probably a holley or brawler carb. Also, I may need to rebuild or buy a new trans because the one I have doesnt have a lot of backstory other than it was taken to a driveline shop and either rebuilt or built up. On top of that I'm most likely going to be putting a new rear end in also. Im not 100% sure what I want to do there though. I know I could probably find a used one for cheaper then a new one or fabricated rear end, but also having the convenience of a bolt in and knowing exactly whats in it and that everything is new and in working order is a big appeal to me.

Also a couple weird questions I have, do the third gens have a fan shroud stock? Mine didnt have one and a lot of radiators Im looking at online dont come with them so I was just wondering. Also, the trans mount quite literally does nothing to hold the trans in my car so who sells a replacement for those because the rubber part it sits on is split in two.

Im probably going to go with all new parts so I know what im getting is good and wont break even though it will cost more than used or rebuilt. I want this car to be fun but also reliable more than anything so that's why im going to be going with new parts. Im going to try to link as much as I can for what im considering buying but all feedback is appreciated. Also Im not sure what else would be a good idea to put in to car like subframe connectors for instance so anything structural that you guys can think of I would like to know because ive never taken on a project like this. Thanks guys

http://www.moserengineering.com/9-Fo...d-Package.item
https://blueprintengines.com/collect...lock-bp3503ct1
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...model/firebird
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2116
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9100/overview/
https://www.monstertransmission.com/...l#.W_djr-Ih1PY
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-br-67313
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:57 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Do you realize your link is for a 4x4 transmission?
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Old 11-22-2018, 10:25 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Nope, thought I clicked on the rear wheel drive
this is the right one https://www.monstertransmission.com/Custom-Built-Monster-700R4-Transmission-Heavy-Duty-Performance-2WD_p_5074.html#.W_eBf8lOngA
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:30 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

My 2 cents, don't try to do all of this at once. It sounds great on paper, but what usually happens is LIFE gets in the way. It is much easier to take the car apart than put it back together. If you think you have every detail covered, you will find that there are hundreds of little things you forgot about, and it's those things that can add up to thousands of dollars more. Wait on the rear end until you have the engine and transmission working the way you want. Believe me, you WILL change your plan many times along the way.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:26 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Yeah I suppose you're right. I'll start with the front end and work my waway back. It might just be a month or two till I can get the parts
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Old 11-25-2018, 01:30 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Hey one other question. I pulled my trans yesterday and i was wondering what this piece is? Bolts to the trans and diff and I have no idea what it is

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Old 11-25-2018, 04:00 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

That is the torque arm.
Probably something worth replacing as you move forward.
There are several options regarding design. That is, adjustable or non-adjustable, forward mount on the transmission housing or a dedicated crossmember that divorces the arm from the trans, the type of front mount used (OEM style or rod end), short/long, colour, etc...
Plenty of threads here on the subject.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/sear...archid=9786752

Last edited by skinny z; 11-25-2018 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:50 AM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Hey everyone.

So I'm still waiting to order everything until I have enough saved up. My plan is to go with a blueprint 383 and gearstar 4l60e. Eventually I'm probably going to get a moser 12 bolt but i wont be running it hard during the break in so I'm not worried about the rear end yet and if it goes then it goes, I'm planning on replacing it anyway. I'm going to put in UMI Performance torque arm relocation, lower control arms, pan hard bar, i have a steering kit so i can replace most of that, polyurethane bushings the whole 9 yards.

But one thing I've been having a hard time with is the exhaust system. The old system was hedman headers and each one had a 3" exhaust straight back (straight back as in it stopped right under the passenger seat) and it had muffles but they didn't do much and I hated it because the hanger (yes, 1 hanger for each pipe) had it dragging on the ground over most bumps. I would like to replace everything with a bolt in system so its tucked up under the car but all I can find online is systems for factory manifolds, cat back systems or LS swap systems.

I found this system but I cant weld well and all I have is a stick welder not MIG or TIG, but I could also get someone to weld it for me possibly. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...model/firebird

I also found this one from hedman that has headers and a y-pipe but reduces down to one 2.5" pipe but is also seems quite expensive. https://www.hedman.com/product-detail/66481

I'm hoping to find an entire system from headers to tailpipe.

I just wanted to get your opinions on what i should go with.

Thanks

Last edited by Gompeh; 03-01-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:41 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Originally Posted by Gompeh View Post
I'm hoping to find an entire system from headers to tailpipe.
I just wanted to get your opinions on what i should go with.
My first header/cat back exhaust was something Edelbrock offered 20 years. It's probably still out there. IIRC it consisted of short headers and y-pipe purchased separately from the 3" cat back. The only piece to add was the converter or a piece of pipe to replace it. All of that was with clamps. Much like the first link you posted.
Others here I'm sure have PN's for complete short header kits. Get it all from the same manufacturer. Maybe check if DynoMax has a recommendation for kit you posted.
If you went the long tube header route you'll have to have a 2 into 1 Y-pipe built from collector to the aftermarket single 3" as above. There are true dual options available too but they'll take some level of fabrication from the collectors as well. Anybody's headers and anybody's cat back will work. Doesn't matter really as you to have build something regardless with the LT header anyway.
Search DynoDon headers here at ThirdGen. He's the man in the short header category around here.
There's an argument to be had regarding the short vs long header. For me, I like the long tube route although I'm more inclined to get the benefit at the drag strip (open header tuning).

Last edited by skinny z; 03-04-2019 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:44 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Originally Posted by skinny z View Post
My first header/cat back exhaust was something Edelbrock offered 20 years. It's probably still out there. IIRC it consisted of short headers and y-pipe purchased
separately from the 3" cat back. The only piece to add was the converter or a piece of pipe to replace it. All of that was with clamps. Much like the first link you posted.
Others here I'm sure have PN's for complete short header kits. Get it all from the same manufacturer. Maybe check if DynoMax has a recommendation for kit you posted.
If you went the long tube header route you'll have to have a 2 into 1 Y-pipe built from collector to the aftermarket single 3" as above. There are true dual options available too but they'll take some level of fabrication from the collectors as well. Anybody's headers and anybody's cat back will work. Doesn't matter really as you to have build something regardless with the LT header anyway.
Search DynoDon headers here at ThirdGen. He's the man in the short header category around here.
hey z,i have an oportunity to pick up a clean,good running 1997 vortec 350 longblock for $650,should i go this way or stick with my 305 in the car and another 305 on the engine stand?i need a push,how much better is it?


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Old 03-04-2019, 08:49 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

The 350 all the way.
I doubt you need an explanation as to why but I'll provide it anyway. As far as power on the cheap swaps, this is the way to go. The foundation is there (provided that it's a sound longblock and hasn't been cooked, ruined the heads or otherwise poorly maintained) and add the usual speed parts that you're probably inclined to add to the 305 anyway and it'll make a fun driver. Do a little work on the heads to support a properly spec'd cam and you could be pretty quick.
The risk is in the longblock and you ability to make it work.

Last edited by skinny z; 03-04-2019 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:56 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

thats what i thought,damned...so much for procrastinating.he is going to drop it off in the crate the 383 came in at my door,what do i need to get it running.
ive got a running lg4 305 in the car,with a perfect holley 650 dp ,ive got an lb9 tpi 305 on a stand with most accessories (no tpi though)a couple intakes,carbs,vaccum adv distributors,
headers,starters etc.i know i need a vortec intake but anything else you can think of off the bat?

i have a 5 speed i would like to use at least for the time being.its the one that is attached to the older 2 piece rear main seal block.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:19 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Yeah. The usual stuff. The OEM HEI I think won't work as a stand alone (I could be wrong). I dropped an aftermarket distributor into mine but then I was a Vortec swap onto a vintage block. An HEI at first then a small cap distributor with an external coil. The HEI is by far the simplest though. The T5 is going to need 1-pice RMS flywheel/clutch assembly that takes care of the balance situation. Going with a carb is simplest as well. You'll have to figure on fuel delivery depending on what your current chassis has.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:22 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

i have a couple vaccum advance old school hei coil in cap distributors(no ecm connection) including the
one in my car right now,plus a spare.one of those should work,right?
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:24 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

i also have a b/n flywheel for a 1 pc rear main seal block in my closet.i think i can do this,it might take a while but i think its definetly worth it,you did the whole vortec thing too right?(on an old block,oh i get it)ill keep you posted,thanks a billion.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:24 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Yep. If you're going to be serious about performance you'll want to address the module and the coil with something other than the stock stuff. But to get it going, you're golden.

Last edited by skinny z; 03-04-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

yep,ill definitely update everything as i can afford to,i need to find a reasonable cam while the motors out and swap it in(the stocker is a peanut).maybe an lt1 or zz4 cam or similar?
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:51 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Either of those will mean the you have to rework the Vortecs to some degree. Valve springs at the very least and the correct ones can be dropped in with no machine work. But do you want to trust the pressed in rocker studs? More work there. Then rocker arms. Etc.Etc. I did all of that but I can say that my fist Vortec iteration was with heads right out of the box, a Comp 268H flat tappet cam, RPM Air Gap, 600 Holley and short tube headers. That car (at 3700 lbs) trapped at 102 MPH. Not bad.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:04 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

i run a big cnc mill(and ran cnc/manual lathes for 25 yrs too) and do my own programming ,fixturing,tooling etc so cutting the bosses down then tapping them for screw
in studs should be pretty easy.ive done parts for chrysler,viper engine parts,cummins,gm,ford,allison trans,detroit diesel etc.im assuming you need to calculate the difference
(of the pressed in stud vs the screw in stud height )to determine how much to remove.

with the 268h you used the pressed in studs without issue?i was thinking of a cam with maybe 0.460 max lift,roller of course and reuse the spider,lifters etc.
im just waiting for the guy to drop off the engine,hopefully it happens without mystery,bull-crap and excuses .

here is a video of it running last week:
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:00 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Originally Posted by 1986BANDIT View Post
.im assuming you need to calculate the difference
(of the pressed in stud vs the screw in stud height )to determine how much to remove.
Pretty much. Keep in mind that with the screw in studs there are a couple of options. Some require spot face milling of the guide boss so as to provide register for the built in jam nut. That's to allow the use of guide plates. Other don't require any milling as the pressed in stud is simply replaced with a screwed in version. In that case, because the Vortecs are set up to use a self guiding rocker arm rather than the pushrod holes in older versions, a guide plate isn't necessary. The rocker tip keeps things in alignment.

Originally Posted by 1986BANDIT View Post
with the 268h you used the pressed in studs without issue?i was thinking of a cam with maybe 0.460 max lift,roller of course and reuse the spider,lifters etc.
Roller absolutely. Generally under .460" lift and A) there's no coil bind or retainer to guide boss interference. (always measure just the same) and B) the entire stock valve train can be reused as I did in my first go round. That said, with access to the proper tooling, I'd also cut the guide bosses for a positive style Viton seal. That further increases the lift capacity and then it's a matter of the appropriate valve spring should you want to step it up.
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Old 03-05-2019, 10:01 PM
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Re: 350 Small Block Carb or Timing Issues

Thanks to Gompeh for the loan of the thread.
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