Gompeh

Hello! I have a 350 high nickel small block with a bunch of performance parts in it and I need some advice. It has a edelbrock 600 cfm "1405" carb with a manual choke on it and I cant get it to run for more than a few seconds without worrying about flooding the engine. Also every now and then when I do try to start it and I have the air filter off the carb and the engine shuts down there is fire coming out of the carb. Im not sure if its a timing issue or carb issue. Is there a way to check timing without having the engine running? And from what I can tell the carb is supposed to be tuned while the engine is warm. Any help would be appreciated, thanks! I can provide details about what is in the car if needed.

midias

What "performance parts" ?
Did you install them?
What is causing it to flood the idle circuit should not provide that much fuel?
When the #1 cylinder is at TDC and the balance marker is at the 0 degree mark does your distributor rotor point at #1?
Is the carb new or used?
Did you verify the spark plug wiring?

Gompeh

I did not install anything, i bought the car over the weekend.
The guy said that the carb is a 750 cfm from edelbrock but it is stamped as a 600 cfm so I am wondering if he put the wrong jets or metering rods etc. in by mistake so im going to call edelbrock and verify the carb is right. Im not sure what is causing it to flood either. I plan on checking TDC and plug wires when I get home later today. I attached some pictures of whats in it.

Biledriver

Could be wrong firing order or rocker arm to tight.

midias

Looks like the finest technology the 60s had to offer. I would reinstall the power steering pump.
The 1405 is a600 cfm. Pull the carb top and read the number on the rods and Jets. The manual online had the numbers for the stock items. As it seems the engine has not run you still need to break in that cam properly.

Check the rocker adjustment that may be really off. Don't worry though lots of us bought massive cluster ****s all created in the name of keeping it old school

Gompeh

I would put the power steering pump in but i need to build a bracket for it first. I didnt think about pulling the jets/rods to check but ill do that tonight. And yeah the engine has next to no time on it and I dont plan on running it hard for a while. This is my first project car so Im pretty new to all of this.

midias

Before you run it at all you need to do a proper cam break in if it has not been done or you will be pulling the motor apart in short order.
http://www.compcams.com/whatsnew/New...yID=1321022241

Biledriver

The metering rods can come out without taking the top off. If they are right you could bet the jets are.

Gompeh

I contacted the seller and he said the cam has been broken in but the rocker arms tend to come loose every now and then so just to keep an eye on them

I checked the metering rods and they were the wrong ones so im sure the jets are too. Do you think that the floats are diffrent? New to carbs so idk if there are different floats for the 750 vs 600. He also didnt have a fuel pressure regulator, edelbrock says the carb is only supposed to take 5-6 psi so im going to order one of those too. And that may have cause the flooding that is happening when i shut the car off and a fire burns out of the carb

midias

Pull the carb top off and adjust the floats per the manual see of they are off. What type of fuel pump are you using?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-803?

Gompeh

He said its a stock 350 mechanical and the electric one is the tank is shot

Gompeh

Also should I get one that can run a gauge?

Xter

Label all your spark plug wires as to which cylinder they go too. Make sure the firing order is right now by checking what wires go where. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

Now remove all the spark plugs, plug the spark plug hole with your finger on the #1 cylinder. Rotate over until you feel compression. Watch the balancer and bring it to TDC by the balancer markings. If the balancer is unmarked or off, then you need ether guess TDC or get a TDC piston stop tool.

After you reach TDC pull your cap off the dizzy and check it is facing the #1 cylinder spark plug wire. If it's off a few degrees it's ok, as long as it isn't 180 out or off a lot.

After that, you'll be close enough to run the engine and verify timing with a timing light.

It seems the carb issue is being taken care of and you made sure the camshaft is broken in.

Now with the rockers coming "loose". Is there anymore information you can provide on that?

Gompeh

Yes the all of the carb things should arrive by friday. Still havent got to check timing but thanks for clearing it up a little more. And for the rockers Im not 100% sure but he did say he didn't torque them down, and that he would just check and tighten them when needed.

midias

You can add a gauge anywhere even inline but you will need one to set the pressure.

Gompeh

I just paid the few extra to run a gauge on the regulator instead of buying extra fittings becuase there nearest threaded part of the fuel line was at the bottom of the engine bay so im going to just make a bracket to attach on the firewall and mount the regulator and gauge there and run some extra line.

Biledriver

The rockers get adjusted not torqued down. If someone did just try to tighten them that could explain the backfiring.

Xter

Easy fix then. Go through the valve adjusting process (you can find many online places that will show you how too [its easy]).

Now with poly locks, you have a set screw inside, just tighten the set screw down inside till tight and turn the poly lock itself another 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Plan ahead on this step when adjusting your rockers. Your rockers shouldn't come loose then by doing this.

Gompeh

So the firing order is correct and i believe that the engine is at tdc. Is a fuel regulator even necessary on a carb because it pulls a vacuum? Im not sure exactly how carbs work and my friend is telling me that ts not necessary because it pulls its own vacuum for fuel

Xter

It depends. If you have an electric pump that supplies more then 7 PSI then yes you'd need one. If you have a mechanical pump you should be good.

Go to AutoZone and rent a fuel pressure gauge (some do it free with a deposit, you get your deposit back when you return the tools) and tee it into the fuel line and check your pressure while the car is running or at least pumping fuel if you cannot get it to run for long.

Does your car use an electric pump or mechanical? And what year is the car in question? I believe you said the stock electric pump was still in the tank?

Edit; Carberutors rely on the Venturi effect to supply fuel. Hence different sizings of jetting and etc.

Gompeh

The electric fuel pump is dead and there is a mechanical one on there. I ordered a fuel pressure regulator and gauge not knowing about that so i guess i can just return them.

The metering rods, springs, and jets should arrive tomorrow and the gasket was bad so that should hopefully arrive by friday. Other than that i think everything is as far as I can get it before putting the new parts in, cleaning out the carb and re installing it.

Xter

How is the mechanical setup? Fuel line routing and etc. I think that may be your issue too and are you 100% sure the stock electric one is dead. I believe the mechanical pump driven by the cam has to have a mechanical pickup installed in the fuel tank. Sounds like the electric pump may be supplying fuel to the mechanical pump and over pressuring it and therefore over pressuring the fuel to the carb.

Pull your fuel pump fuse in the fuse block inside the car and then try to start it. See if it'll start and if so, see if it's running on the reserve fuel in the mechanical pump or if fuel is being supplied to the mechanical pump.

Gompeh

Im not really sure how its set up as i didnt build the car. I would try and start it without the fuse but the carb is already out and cant be put back in right now. We opened it up and it looks like it could use the jets and metering rods that i ordered so those are going in regardless. After that if the car fires up ill know it was the carb if not ill try to fuse idea.

Xter

Keep us updated and be safe. I'd inspect the fuel lines on their routing to make sure nothing is rigged up or wrong being this car is pretty far off from the stock style system.

There's threads on this forum that show how fuel systems should be plumped for mechanical and electric in tank setups and how to convert to one or the other if you need reference information for your car.

Wish you the best of luck bud

Gompeh

I had a few thoughts that might and help diagnose the problem or at least add a few things that I can check.
1. Can I run a timing light while the engine is turning over (BUT NOT RUNNING) to make sure timing isn't off?
2. Edelbrock carbs have 2 vacuum ports on the front, the one on the left side is for timed vacuum that leads to the distributor (which the car came with that plugged in) and the one on the right is for manifold vacuum on automatic cars only (this is just what I have been told from edelbrock carb installation videos), and I think its supposed to run down to the transmissions modulator valve, and that port was plugged on the car. Is this an issue to it starting or will it create an issue later in time? (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...h-videos.shtml) this is the link to the video that talks about it if you go to installation part 3
3. Does my car need a return line? I'm not sure if it has one at the moment or not (I would think it does because it had a running electric fuel pump at one point). From what I've read on mechanical pumps there is a little bit of controversy if mechanical pumps need one or not. But from what I can tell electric ones do and if my car had an electric pump on it it should have a return line. But then again if the mechanical pump pulls after the return line then it should need a different return line right?. And from what I know at the moment the electric pump doesn't work but it does have one installed.

I already have a pressure regulator ordered but I'm not even sure if ill need it with that mechanical pump for two reasons. One being that the pump itself might regulate the fuel pressure, two being that the car doesn't need a return line because of reason one. I'm not an expert on the topic but this is just my thinking about it all.

Thanks

midias

The previous owner of my car for some reason hacked off the return line no issues with my mechanical pump. You only need it if your setup requires one.

Gompeh

Ok cool

So I think that this vacuum port (see the image) needs to connect down to the trans. I'm not exactly sure what it does but i think it pulls manifold vacuum to the transmission modulator valve or transmission vacuum modulator (not sure what its called) It has been plugged off since ive had the car and apparently its only supposed to be used for autos (which min is_

Gompeh

So i got the jets out today. The primaries were easy but the secondaries were stuck like nothing else. Had to end up using a screw extractor on them. The guy i bought the car from said that it was running rich so i put in .098 instead of .100 as primaries and .92 instead of .95 as secondaries. And im going to put in the metering rod edelbrock recommends for the primaries when i get the rest of the carb put back together.

Xter

Trying to time the engine while it's cranking won't work. Just set the timing with the engine off as described. Forgot to mention you should set it so many degrees BTDC. Try 10-12 below and have the rotor pointed directly at #1 spark plug wire on the cap. This will set your timing close enough to run and idle. Then you time the car while it's running with a light.

The 700r4 don't use a vacuum modulator. They use a TV cable to adjust line pressure.

I'm not sure how a mechanical can be setup to run to be honest. I've only played with electric in tank pumps so I'm use to always running a regulator and return line.

Gompeh

So i went to adjust the floats today because i didnt have anything else to do. The one on the right is where they are supposed to be. They were about an inch and a quarter off

midias

Damn sounds like someone tried some carb tuning. Probably the same guy that did my car before I got it................

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Wow, that's messed up with a capital EFF...

If it was mine, I believe at this point I'd be going back and taking a REAL good look at EVERY SINGLE THING that numbnutz touched.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

There is float level and float drop. Be sure you know where to bend those tabs.

DO NOT crank the engine (trying to time it) without the carb being connected!
You have an OPEN FUEL LINE from the mechanical fuel pump that WILL SPRAY FUEL all over the engine compartment.
One spark and it lights (ask me how I know).

Rotate the engine to 12 degrees BTDC on the #1 compression stroke. The rotor should be pointing at #1 on the distributor cap. If you have not touched it previously, it will start. Time it after it is warmed up.

Gompeh

So the distributor cap is at a set position so that i cant turn the cap to set the timing (i was going 10 degrees before tdc) the sharpie mark is roughly 10 before tdc so i think that is fine but i will check with a timing light before i drive it. The carb part still haven't arrived and it 4:30 where i am do i can only hope right now.

Gompeh

Ok so i got the carb back in and connected everything and it was wanting to fire up and you could hear it wanting to start. Then it backfired once and now it doesn't even want to turn over. Any ideas?

Gompeh

It was a blown fuse. Nee to get new ones

Gompeh

So I think i found why two fuses were blown... That is my starter solenoid. And the cap on the top got smashed somehow. Its been replaced and is in the car but I still havent had time to try and start it again and i didnt think to test to make sure that the starter is still ok outside of the car, but it looks brand new and so did the solenoid. Any ideas on how this happened? Its somewhat close to the headers so could the heat have been a factor?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Possibly: might have affected how hard whoever hit it with whatever, or from how high they dropped it...

Gompeh

Ok so i replaced the solenoid and i accidently had the main post and the one of the 2 side posts touching and when i went to plug the battery back in the starter ran and the battery connection sparked. I fixed it so all of the posts werent touching and now nothing electrical works. The lights dont turn on when the door opens etc. The battery has charge and all of the fuses looked good. Any ideas?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like either the fusible link(s) got blown in the process, or they're on the wrong terminal.

Jorlain

iTrader: (4)

In addition to Sofa's comment, there's a red wire with a fusible link that connects to the solenoid that provides power for most of the rest of the car. If that is disconnected, or the fusible link is blown, you'll have to replace the fusible link with either an inline fuse or a new fusible link. I can't remember offhand, but I think you size fusible links 2 sizes down from the actual wire gauge. So if it's 10 gauge wire, you use a 14 gauge fusible link. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Gompeh

Ok. Ill have to try and go over the wiring but at first glance i dont see any fusable links. What it seems is that the battery supplies power to the starter and solenoid and then everything else is powered off of that. So for all i know there were shorts in the alternator or starter or the entire f***ing car for that matter

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

100% correct.

Gompeh

So as of now i dont see any fusable links. The wiring harnesses seems home made so i might have to tear apart all of the electrical tape to check for anything or just make a new one. Im so burnt and just frustrated from all of the bs thats happened so im gonna wait until tomorrow.

Real quick i just wanted to thank everyone who has left a suggestion for the problems ive had. I dont really know where i would be in this project without you guys because all of my friends, family, and friends of friends are diesel guys so they can only help me so much and the few shops around me who know anything about small blocks dont really want to touch engine swaps unless it doesn't have to do anything with getting it running (they only want tk do paint or replace the interior etc.). Im only 18 and all i have to work with is hand tools and limited powes tools so i can only do so much by myself. Anyways thanks a lot guys. Ill get back with you after i look over the wiring but if you have any other suggestions please let me know

Biledriver

Try to get a pic of this home maid wiring harness by the starter. I'd hate to think someone would get rid off that bit of harness, it's just about the most useful part of it for any swap carbed or FI. It must have burnt or got tucked back and if anything inside the car ever turned on it must have been hooked to something.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Use a test light or voltmeter to troubleshoot. When you find where your +12v goes missing, you've found the problem.

Gompeh

So i went to autozone to have them test if my starter was dead and its still working but just pulls a lot of current. The guy helping me mentioned to check if my car had a max fuse. I dont know if my car has one or where it would be. I dont know if i mentioned it or not but its an 86' trans am

Gompeh

Ok so i bolted the starter back in and wired it but the only things getting power from the battery is the red connection to the alternator and the main post on the starter solenoid. The 2 side posts on the solenoid are not getting power so that would mean the rest of the car isn't getting power right? One of them should engage when the car starts and the other should always have power if my thinking is correct.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

Gompeh

So i fexed the electrical stuff, there were 2 wires on the wrong terminals so i moved those and the car is mostly idling but it doesn't want to stay idling lower than about 1,100 rpm. And when you goto out it in drive or reverse it just dies