I'm about to replace my intake/carb/distributor. I've got a Holley #1850 600 cfm carb, and I'm trying to decide on an intake. Should I go with a single or double plane manifold? The engine is a stock LG4 305. What type of performance increase can I expect?

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 170 hp.
Rochester Quadraje(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

 

Single plane intakes are for high reving racing engines. You probably aren't in that category. Dual plane are for daily driver and mild performance engines. That's where you live.

Not to burst your bubble, but if all your mods are in your sig, you'll see exactly zero performance gain, assuming your current system isn't totally hosed. Also, you're probably more in the 145 HP club, although your catback and aircleaner may have helped some. What you really need are exhaust (headers & 3" cat), cam, heads, and perhaps compression increase, probably in that order. Then you can consider your intake/carb/distributor change, but even then, your performance gain would be next to nothing. Maybe an Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Action + would be a step up from stock, but your q-jet and CC setup are still just fine if tuned properly.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, World 305 heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere w/open diff & slipping tranny. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

Well I do agree with five7 if you were keeping the cc stuff. But your not so you will see a nice performance gain with the holley. I highly recomend a weiand stealth.
It flows like a dual and a single plane manifold. Just go to holley.com/ and click on wieand.

------------------
If you really want to be original slap in a TURBO DIESEL!

 

Well, Ive been hearing pretty much the same from everyone else too. I am gonna go with a dual plane. I just have to decide between a Edelbrock Performer, or Performer RPM (hood clearance is a priority!). Is the Holley 1850 a good carb? Havent used it yet, but I've been told its a pretty good carb. I only paid 100 for it.:cool

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 170 hp.
Rochester Quadraje(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

 

I went to the Weiand site and took a look at the stealth manifold. Its looks pretty good and the specs are what I'm looking for. Anyone got any recomendations between the Edelbrock and the Weiand?

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 170 hp.
Rochester Quadraje(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

 

I ran a #1850 for about 2 yrs (50k miles). I just switched to an old qjet and now get 4mpg more with better power and pass emissions. I bought all the stuff for the 1850 to try to get it to run really well (secondary springs, jets, power valves, etc). I t ran well, but never perfect. I would stick with the CC qjet, or if its worn out get a pre 1975 off a GM V8. I got mine off of EBAY for $45 in excellent condition. The regular performer intake would be best.

------------------
1984 Z28 (L69) monochrome tangerine orange with IROC decals and hood
1987 IROC wheels with Goodyear GSC's
305 from 87 IROC with 1994 LT1 cam (203/208 .450/.460")
performer intake
Qjet from 73 Olds
dynomax cat-back, gutted cat
no emissions controls --> passed emissions testing
non WC T-5 with 0.73 5th
3.27 nine-bolt

 

Trouble with buying an old Holley is just that. It's an old Holley. It's probably been rebuilt many times and still doesn't run right. A 30 year old carb is just worn out. There's probably a reason it was for sale in the first place.

Buy a "new" carb and you won't have all the problems of an old one.

------------------
Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
and check out the race car

87 IROC-Z Pro ET Bracket Race Car
383 stroker (carbed) with double hump cast iron heads and pump gas
461 Big Block installed and ready for the 2001 racing season

Best results before the 383 blew up
Best ET on a time slip: 11.857 altitude corrected to 11.163
Best MPH on a time slip: 117.87 altitude corrected to 126.10
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP based on power to weight ratio: 476.5
Best 60 foot: 1.662

Racing at 3500 feet elevation but most race days it's over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

I'll highly recommend the Wieand over the Edelcrock.

I've had good luck with old holleys too. I've run 2..a 600 VS and a 650 DP.both pretty old and rebuilt prolly numerous times. Both of them worked like a charm first time out. There really isn't anything to wear out on Holleys(other than throttle shafts..but you can feel by hand how bad those are))...so age doesn't really matter. Just give them a fresh rebuild, and enjoy.

------------------
"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

The Holley carb I'm getting is used but not old. a buddy of mine only used it for about a year, he then put a bigger cam and hedders on his 350, so he got a Edelbrock 700 cfm. I dont think a years worth of use is going to seriously affect its performance. Plus, its already tuned, so I'll only have to do minor adjustments.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 170 hp.
Rochester Quadraje(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

 

And I'll stand by my position that a carb/intake/ignition change will give you zilch performance improvement on a stock LG4 that otherwise runs well now.

 

Well, that may be, but the fact that I will be able to eliminate the smog pump and the emissions will give a slight power boost. I still dont really understand how a weiand stealth intake and a 600 Holley won't improve my performance at all. At the very least I will have a much better looking engine compartment, which is a valuable thing to have at car shows, which I have been attending lately. Two trophies,,,and the best thing of all: my friend took his 89 Stang, which is much faster than my ride, but he went home trophyless, and I got a top 10! Oh well, I'm hoping for some upped performance, but I'll settle for a good looking engine bay.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Ya gotta listen, man. At LEAST change the cam to a mellow 204/214 variety, too. Otherwise, you are wating time/cash until you just do the cam + later...

 

listen get the RPM and the carb and the dist. and a good exhaust from the engine back and you will see a big difference. oh yeah and get a new cam but that other stuff will definately make the car feel faster. and make sure you get a drop base air cleaner or it won't work with the hood

------------------
I WOULD RATHER PUSH A CAMARO THAN DRIVE AN IMPORT

1983Z28 350w/ edelbrock performer RPM power package with 64cc aluminum heads, dynomax shorty headers, 700R-4 with shift kit, 750cfm carb, edelbrock 3" exhaust system, ASCD SS hood, 16" IROC rims.

future mods:
completely done over suspension, black paint with flames, Hurst shifter, dakota digital gauge package, procharger supercharger.

 

I'm gonna go against the consensus...I say go ahead and do it even tho your engine is otherwise stock. I say rip out and replace anything OEM purely on moral grounds Sure you won't gain as much as if you had a cam and other mods, but you will make some gain nonetheless.

------------------
"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

 

I can only give my personal experience but on my L69 motor the RPM manifold Holley 1850 and small tube headers made my car considerably faster. It took my car from 15.9@86 to 14.7@93.5. Not all that increase was from the mods, some was just plain tuning but it did make quite a difference.

 

I will end up putting a bigger cam in sooner or later, but i gotta start somewhere, and the top of the motor is the easiest place. I want to do it anyway to get rid of the spaghetti(emissions and vacuum lines) and the computer control(too Japaneese). I like a nice bare motor, and the only way to get that is by doing what im gonna do.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Put the cheapo Summit/SIS $79.95 cam/lifter kit (204/214 .050" duration, .420"/.442" lift) in while you have the motor apart!!! Best money you can spend on a budget and will help the manifold change A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I might swing that, but dont you have to unbolt the motor and tranny and jack up the motor to get the cam out? Thats alot more work than I was wanting to do.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

No, you don't have to do all that. The reason most people raise the engine is so that they can drop the oil pan, to replace the oil pan to timing cover seal. A portion of that seal is tucked between the engine and the oil pan. Instead, you can just reuse the old seal and use a little RTV to make sure that it's leak tight.

By the way, if you're going to replace the cam, I'd look for something with about 270* (advertised) duration and .460" lift. Less than that and it's hardly worth the effort.

As far as old Holley carbs vs. new Holley carbs go, the old ones work just fine when rebuilt. It's the power valves in the old Holley carbs that make them a pain in the a$$. New power valves in the new ones don't blow up like the old ones.

 

Advertised duration is meaningless. It's the .050" lift duration that makes the flow. Trust me, the 204/214 cam in a 350cid can get you 300hp with 9.0:1 comp ratio, with good intake, carb and exhaust. If that sucks for a few hundred bucks, then so be it...

 

I had that cam in my 84 TA with a 350. It stinks, spend the money and get a good cam if you're going to put in a new one.

 

It's just another way of rating cams, and it's meaningful to many who have been doing this for over twenty years. Being of the "old school" crowd of the 70s, I've always been able to better recognize cam sizes based on advertised duration (the duration measured at .006" of lobe lift, for most manufacturers). Many companies still use that old measurement when identifying their cams. For example, when I stated that he should use a cam with approximately 270* of advertised duration and .460" lift, I was referring to the Comp Cams 268. Check it out.

http://www.compcams.com/speccard/12-318-4.txt

 

The carb that I'm gonna buy was used on a 350 for about a year, so I hope to not have many probs with it. Its been tuned for a 350, so I'll have to tune it in a little. As for the cam, I'm gonna give it some serious consideration. The only thing I'm leery about is all the miles on the engine(125,000), I wonder if it will take it?



------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

That cam won't raise the power band past 5500 rpm. Of course it's always better to start with a newly rebuilt engine, but a mild hop up won't cause catastrophic failure unless there's something in there already set to blow up.

 

In my 20 years+ experieince, I have found that adv duration is somewhat meaningless IN COMPARISON TO .050" DURATION when it comes to cam specs/analysis. And Comp will agree. Maybe they are dumb, too, huh?

I have use the 204/214 cheapo cam to make several DYNO tested 350cid 300+hp engines over the last 15 years. Edelbrock has done the same and more with their similar cam for even longer. If you are looking for more, use a bigger cam. That cam in a 305 is more than sufficient as a CHEAP (that's what this guy said he needs/wants) cam to get started with engine work. If/when he gets some scratch, he cam upgrade to a Comp/etc or a roller setup.

Just do it right. Too big of a cam is youth talking and will lose races, anyhow. WIth the cheaper mods you are looking for, the mellow cam will fit the config better and be a better driver, too.

 

Okay then, "somewhat meaningless", when compared to duration at 0.050" for engine analysis is a little different than "meaningless". I'm sure there are many more like me that are used to the old advertised duration numbers. Sure, they weren't consistently measured from camshaft to camshaft, but everyone had a good feel for the basic differences between 270 cams, 280 cams, 290 cams, 300 cams, 320 cams, and so on. Everytime someone recommends a 224 duration camshaft, for example, I need to go back and compare that number to the cams I once ran to get a feel for what cam he's talking about.

Going back to that Comp Cams 268, though, it's not an aggressive cam, not by a long shot. Running a 305 engine with roughly 8.5:1 compression, he'll need a little more rpm to make good power than he would with a 350. That cam is no cheapo, that's for sure, but with a set of 1 5/8" primary headers, it'll match his setup well and raise his shift point to 5500 rpm.

 

Well, I know I'm gonna get tons of different answers to this, but which would be the the best cam for my setup, keeping in mind that its a aging 305, with only moderate performance upgrades. I want to get a good power boost, but I dont want to over do it (juvenile cams, as someone put it). Also, which is the best brand, i.e. Comp, Crane, Summit, lunati etc. which is the best value?

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Just stick with the more well known names in racing camshafts and you won't have to worry about quality. Crower, Competition Cams, Lunati, Crane, Edelbrock, Lingenfelter, Erson, and SLP all make quality products that work very well. Your concern should be centered around cam specs -- duration, lift, and lobe separation angle. For a mild hop up of a 305 engine, use a hydraulic cam having less than 270* of duration (roughly 224* measured at .050"), with a 110 lobe separation angle. If you're going to err, be sure to err on the small side of that duration number. Believe me, being slightly under-cammed is a way better deal than being over-cammed. Big cams may impress the crap out of those who don't know any better, with their rompity romp idle and race-like tone at high rpm, but don't be fooled. Unless you match a big cam with high compression, porting/polishing, big valves, 2" headers, tall rear end gearing, and a 7000+ rpm shift point, it'll just be a big noise maker; certainly not a power maker.

 

Man, you doon't know what you are talking about...

As a for instance, look at the .050" lift duraion and adv duraion lift numbers for the 330hp crate motor cam and, say, the LT4 Hot Cam and also the Comp XE268 cam. Use your logic and let us know which is the more radical cam....

If you don't get it after that, you'll need some help.

EDIT: R U on crack??? yout think that an XE268 is not an aggressive cam for a more-or-less stock 305cid motor??? Wow!!! It is obvious to me that you do not know what you are talking about. i am done here. Good luck and don't listen to this guy. read some magazines and you'll realize this guy is a duh. For a 305, a XE250 or XE256 should be fine. More is ok, only if you are ready for the part matching and low-end suffering. Call COMP, if you don't believe me. Wow... As Bill Murray said in Caddyshack (as karl Spackler) "I have to laugh". 8.5 CR, What a joke!!! The engine would barely run at 8.5... DA.


[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited April 20, 2001).]

 

I posted a link to the CC268 cam to which I referred earlier. http://www.compcams.com/speccard/12-318-4.txt

Where you got XE268, I don't know. The grind number for the cam I was discussing is CS 268AH-10. A quick look at the cam card will show you that the cam is mild. With 222*/226* duration and .464" of lift on a 110 LSA, it's not exactly a radical cam, is it? Even with an engine as small as a 305 with headers and duals, it's hardly noticeable at idle.

8.5:1 to compression. That's very close to what a 1984 Chevy LG4 runs.

You seem to think that you know more about this than me. BULL$HIT.




[This message has been edited by dsmanimal (edited April 20, 2001).]

 

Here you go, genius. What did you say the compression ratio was for a 1984 LG4? http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro84.html

LOL! What a f_cking dumba$$!

 

Have you put that cam in a 305??? I bet not. I WOULD consider that cam rather aggresive for a 305 with 8.6CR. With that .050 duration and Lobe Sep and CR, you'd have a terrible idle!!! Seeing as you don't even know what XE (or CS) means it is obvious to me that you don't know/understand Comp Cams or any other cam, for that matter...

Why don't you come back when you've actually changed a cam. And, for the record, YOU started the 8.5CR thing, retard, on your April 19th, 8:05pm post. Get your sheet together! I don't even get where you are coming from with that 8.5CR thing. Duphous. C-stain.

Why don't you call COMP and ask them for their recc??? I'll bet I am correct and you are not.

Did you forget that this guy is trying to stay on a budget? That he is only changing the intake carb and distributor? That he is using the OEM umported heads with stock exhaust? That he has an old H1850? Still think that COMP is a good cam for his combo, ********? LOL!!! I'd say 250 or 256 series of any Comp Line.

That HI sun is messin' you up, boy...

I'll bet you have never even SEEN a cam out of a car with your own eyes from they way your are talking durations, buddy. Sorry, but this is obvious to EVERYONE here...

Download the Comp Cam catalog or go to their website at COMPCAMS.com (i think)

they have LOTS of info in there about how to PICK a cam for a particular application, install it, etc. you'll learn a lot there. read it cover-to-cover, then repost.

Still waiting for you to acknowledge the duration comparison info on the cam question I asked you... Too tough for you, huh? Sorry. "Duh, adv duration is the key to all, er duh, derrrrr, pffft, point oh five oh, shmoe five oh, pffft"

 

I installed that CC268 on my old 1985 LG4 Z28. With 1 5/8" headers and duals it ran just fine. The idle is ever so slightly rougher than stock, and like I said earlier, it's hardly noticeable.

I've seen the XE and CS cams in the Comp Cams catalog. I didn't say that I was unfamiliar with them, I said that I didn't understand how you assumed that I was referring to the XE cam.

I changed cams three times on a 1968 SS (with a transplanted 331 cid small block engine). I swapped cams once on a 350 cid powered Chevy Vega. I changed cams twice on my blown '85 Z28. That's on my own cars. I've helped others with cam swaps at least a dozen times. I've been doing this since 1978. You're making a very poor assumption if you think I'm new to this.

You claimed that the engine wouldn't even run with a 8.5:1 compression ratio. Don't even attempt to cover up your ignorance. It reeks badly enough already. It's obvious to me that you're new to this game. Your claim to have 20+ years of experience sounds pretty darn fishy. How old are you?

Many think that a 268* cam is aggressive, including you. When I installed a Sig-Erson 278*, .460" cam and a 780 cfm spread bore carb in a 175 horsepower 1973 350 engine (with just headers and duals; everything else was stock), the Vega went from running 13.9 to 13.4 on the stock tires and the stock rear end. Enough said.

I've already addressed that asinine comment of yours.

It's going to get very obvious, very quickly, who's the novice around here. I've just started posting in here again. The readers here will see who I am and who you're not. All in good time, my ignorant friend. You only wish that people in here think you know what you're talking about. You're a fake, and it won't take me very long to uncover your bull$hit for all to see.


[This message has been edited by dsmanimal (edited April 23, 2001).]

 

A few questions for you on camshaft theory. Nothing complicated here, just basic hot rodding information. If you can answer these, then you have at least half a clue. If you can't answer these, you're most definitely a newbie.

1. How does a long duration camshaft destroy the idle quality and the off-idle torque in a daily driven V8? What happens inside the engine to cause this?

2. Relative to a stock, mid 1970s carbureted 350 engine undergoing a camshaft swap: Remove the distributor, then remove the carb and the intake manifold. Remove both valve covers then back off all rocker arms. Remove the 16 pushrods and lifters. Remove the cooling fan, the water pump, the crankshaft damper, the timing cover, the timing chain, and the timing gears. Attempt to slide the camshaft out of the engine. It'll move outward about 1/2" then stop. It's now stuck in the engine. What's holding it?

3. How do Rhodes lifters or Crane High Intensity lifters smoothen an engine's idle?

4. What is the overall effect on power and torque when a cam is advanced or retarded?

5. Assume that the owner of a 9 psi Novi supercharged LT1 has selected a 224*/230*, .502"/.510" roller cam to run in his car. Should he use a cam with a 114 LSA, or would a cam with a 110 LSA work better? Explain the major effect of a cam's LSA on a supercharged engine.



[This message has been edited by dsmanimal (edited April 22, 2001).]

 

I was looking in Summit and saw the COMP Cams section, I'm thinking about going with either the High Energy CC268H, or the Magnum CC270H.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

Good man. Get that CS 268H-10 --> perfect!

 

Wow are you an idiot... Enough with the adv duration already... Ricky Rejecto

 

BTW, in case you haven't figured out why noone else has chimed in it's because they emailed me that you are an idiot and didn't want to post that here. 4 people from the forum, so far, and they believe you have made up all your claimed experience...

What are the .050" numbers on your said cam? I bet they are quite low in relation to the stated cams adv duraion, which is the OPPOSITE of most of the Comp line. That was and IS my point, duphous.

Get it, yet?

 

BTW, I could answer those questions when I was about your age, 18, and had already done a lot more engine work and cam swaps than you at 16. Sorry, that was 20 years ago. I won't give you answers to questions that you need help on. If you cannot figure the answers out, call Comp or Edelbrock.

I change cams almost weekly at times JUST TO DYNO TEST and MILEAGE test for differences... A little more advanced than you, yes, but I can afford the cams, dyno time and to pay the people to do most of the work for me.

Your adv duration numbers theory is old news and was never good theory, anyway. Technology has changed since then, buddy. Cam grinds, grinding machines, metallurgy, lifter tech, etc. Get with it!!! It is no longer 20 years ago. It is 2001!!! I'll assume you know that NOW they have lifters with little wheels on the bottom??? Called roller lifters? Are you there, yet? Comprende'? (sp)

 

alright guys break it up, break it up. Cam we all just get along?

------------------
I WOULD RATHER PUSH A CAMARO THAN DRIVE AN IMPORT

1983Z28 350w/ edelbrock performer RPM power package with 64cc aluminum heads, dynomax shorty headers, 700R-4 with shift kit, 750cfm carb, edelbrock 3" exhaust system, ASCD SS hood, 16" IROC rims.

future mods:
completely done over suspension, black paint with flames, Hurst shifter, dakota digital gauge package, procharger supercharger.

 

I'm 43.

If you're not going to answer those simple questions, I can't take you seriously. Like I said. There's lots of time for me to demonstrate what must be demonstrated for the readership to see that you are wrong -- wrong about the cam under discussion, and wrong in questioning my level of knowledge.

Just answer the goddam questions.

 

WOW! This one's a knock-down drag-out!

I won't get involved in the tech discussion becaus there are valid points on all sides of the argument. BUT, I'll throw in my .02 for what it's worth. I HAVE used the Comp Cams 268 High Energy cam in several applications, including a basically stock 305 (Stock manifolds but with 3" exh system, stock intake, ??? compression and a chip). It's a pussycat, but it's got some growl to it. It's on the mid-to-upper end of what I'd use for a daily driver 305. It made torque EVERYWHERE versus the stock wimp-o cam. Definite seat-of-the-pants improvement that required NO dyno or dragstrip to tell me it was a good choice.

Yes, it mighta lost a LITTLE bottom end (below 2000, just above the stock converter's stall speed). After that, it was an animal. Idle was ALMOST indistinguishable from stock. Just a LEEETLE bit of a lope.

Compare that with the very similar 270 Magnum cam (which I have also used), however, and the Magnum grind is much "nastier." With only 2 more degrees of advertised duration it has 6 more degrees of .050 duration and ~.020 more lift. That's quite a change. That one will definitely lose you some bottom end below 2500 and the idle will have a noticable lope to it. In a manual trans car, not at all objectionable, but with an automatic and stock stall converter you probably won't be a happy camper, unless you like to live on the edge of streetable.

I have not yet used any of the Xtreme Energy cams but my observation is they are basically even more radical versions of the Magnum series cams with even MORE .050 duration versus their advertised duration. That's important. Especially in a low compression motor. Low compression and big cams do not "play nice together." Low RPM performance gets mushy in a hurry.

Here's one point that hasn't been brought up yet. The more aggressive the opening and closing ramps get (less and less difference between advertised and .050 duration figures) the harder it is on your valvetrain. That means more strees on the valve springs, rocker arms and pushrods. That's becuase you're hauling the valve off the seat and slamming it back down in much less time than with a milder cam. I could defintiely see putting in a 268 High Energy cam with stock valvetrain (done it, it works fine) but a 268 Xtreme Energy cam will alsmost certainly not like that. Personally, I wouldn't do it.

One last point and I'll shut up. Forget about runnign more than about .450-460" lift with stock springs and heads. Especially if your heads use the common push-on valve guide seals on the intake guide bosses. The spring retainer will contact the seal at only about .470" lift. That's when stuff starts bending (pushrods). Yes you can take the seals off and run up to maybe .480 lift before you have to worry about binding the stock valve springs, but then you'll burn a lot more oil and believe me you don't want to do that. (Stock springs actually flat-stack at about .500" lift but you MUST leave a .025" safety margin or you will be regualry replacing valvetrain parts). Even the mild 268 High Energy can has .454" lift with stock 1.5 rocker arms! Another reason to stay on the mild end of the spectrum.

OK, jsut one more. Consider the fact that your stock cam probably only has about 180-190* of .050 lift. Suddenly even "mild" performance cams look pretty aggressive, don't they?

 

Damon, I agree with everything you said.

DS, you never answered my cam questions, I will not answer yours. Please, a little easy, don't you think, for a gy who has his own library of cam grinds at Comp and Crane??? Yes, you can have custom grinds made, for a price.

ALL I am/was/is trying to say is that your logic of adv vs .050" duration is WRONG. For instance, below I will compare your Comp cam specs vs the Edelbrock 2102 camshaft. Using your method, the 2102 would be a BIGGER cam when obviously, from the .050" duration numbers, it is not. If you do not agree too this, you are bound to never change.

Edelbrock 2102 Comp Cam
=======================================
adv duration 278/288 268/276
.050" duraion 204/214 222/226

It is plain to see that the 2102 cam has more adv duration than the Comp cam. Nonetheless, I will bet that NOONE here will agree with your theory that the 2012 cam is "bigger" than the Comp cam from the adv duration comparison. In fact, the 2102 cam is so mellow, it has an EO number!!!

Care to change your tune??? Get with it man. It's called ramp speed, as Damon eluded to. Things have changed in the last 20 years. I did not mean to insult your age, BTW.

Later.

 

man, I had no idea asking which intake was better would spawn such a heated debate!

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."

 

*running into heat of battle*

Dual-plane dude!

------------------
I WOULD RATHER PUSH A CAMARO THAN DRIVE AN IMPORT

1983Z28 350w/ edelbrock performer RPM power package with 64cc aluminum heads, dynomax shorty headers, 700R-4 with shift kit, 750cfm carb, edelbrock 3" exhaust system, ASCD SS hood, 16" IROC rims.

future mods:
completely done over suspension, black paint with flames, Hurst shifter, dakota digital gauge package, procharger supercharger.

 

FastBroker,

I do believe that you were the one to cast the first stone in this thread. If you don't recall, then go back and read it through. It would be fitting for you, the aggressor, to answer my questions first.

[This message has been edited by dsmanimal (edited April 26, 2001).]

 

If me stating my opinion of something (adv duration at .050") as "meaningless", then so be it. YOU had to attack/keep posting your side and that I was wrong in my opinion. Maybe I should/could have used different words to state my opinion but same for you.

Sorry, later on, and use .050" please. FYI, another example is cam in the 330hp Vortec Headded crate motor. Has like 320/330 adv duration (or so) and like 212/222 .050" duraion with .435"/.460" lift, or so. MELLOW cam but if you look at the adv duration numbres of 300deg+, WOW. That cam SUCKS BTW and use any Comp 262/268 instead...

Have a great wekeend, all!!!

 

No, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about this:

I didn't say anything inflammatory until after you'd posted that vivid demonstration of your emotional immaturity.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're unable to answer those 5 very basic questions on camshaft tech.

 

not to really stick my neck out, but dsmanimal seemed to start with an attitude

------------------
'86 Camaro z-28
Carbed 350
Shorty Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
B&M Shift Kit
Borg-Warner SuperMag wires

 

Yeah its a good thing they arent roomates.

------------------
---Grady---
1984 Berlinetta.
LG4 305, 150 hp.
Rochester Quadrajet(Comp. Controlled)
TH-700R4.
Flowmaster 80 series/ 3" cat-back pipe.
Accel Superstock Coil.
7.5 10-bolt rear/ 3.08's.
Edelbrock signature series air cleaner -w- K&N Filtercharger.
Pioneer head unit, Pioneer front 4X6's, Cerwin Vega rear 6x9's.
Daily Driver.

Personal Quote: "The Rice-Boys all tremble with fear when the old American V8 draws near."