You would think by now someone would have made a direct fit radiator.....maybe even with new brackets. I just thought it was an easy job....why not make them for their radiators.

Well I need to buy one and new fans also....so what KIT should I buy or look at.

I dont want anything with a tranny cooler built in. I have an external one I will use. Thanks much

 

umm...they do.

Ron Davis. "Be cool" and I believe griffin all make direct fit radiators...none of which are cheap.

 

Yup they sure do. If you want a nice one, it can't be cheap too. If you wanna save $ and get a big radiator, you need to do some more work. But you can get the summit universal ones to fit in pretty good if you don't wanna look into the direct fitting ones.

I plan on picking up a griffin after the summer if my motor needs more cooling. Def worth it, they look bullet proof.

 

buy a cheap direct replacement radiator for a 91 camaro.

stock ones are amazingly good in these cars.

they are an alum core radiator that works well into the 800rwhp range. they fit. they're huge.


the ONLY possible downside to them is the fact that the endtanks are plastic... now they're reliable, no worries about breakage for about a decade of use... but they're not pretty.

 

I would like to buy the Griffin because its cheaper than Be Cool....but the Griffin I want is the bad boy.....31x19, but it has a tranny cooler and I dont want that because I will be using an external cooler....or can I just plug up the tranny lines and just run them to my external cooler?

 

1. yes you can bypass the internal cooler.
2. you would be stupid to do so.


you want to run the radiator cooler AND the external trans cooler.... unless this is a trailered, never-sees-the-street strip car, dont just run the dinky trans cooler, unless you like rebuilding transmissions...
----------
oh and 3...... you're paying extra for the built in cooler.... so you would be stupid to pay for it and not use it. lol

 

How do I hook up an external cooler AND an internal cooler????? I thought it was better to run external coolers??? and if thats a problem who makes one without a cooler....besides be cool....that fits?

 

I got a stock replacment 91 radiator in my 91 Z28 pushing 500 Hp and going to see some N20. It is a street car and will be sitting in traffic and all that stuff. Car runs super cool, I thought it was going to be troublesom with the big 385 and the huge cam and stock cooling parts, so I installed a 185* thermostat, and a 180* thermo switch for my second fan. Car CANNOT reach 190*. Hits 185* and BAM the temps slowly drop to 160* or so and slowly climb back up. Works like a charm.

I would recomend it, cost like $160 new and fits 100% perfect.

 

two lines come from the transmission.. in and out..


the hot fluid comes from the transmission and goes into the stock location cooler.

this cooler is VERY efficient because its using water(coolant) to cool, not air...

the now cooled to engine temp fluid now exits the stock transcooler... take that line and plug it into your aftermarket cooler.

your aftermarket cooler will cool it down a little more... it works, but it just doesnt have the cooling capacity required to keep the entire trans cool over the length of a drive....

the fluid now exits the aftermarket cooler and goes back into the transmission.


it IS better to run a aftermarket cooler WITH your current one... thats what street/strip cars do.
the reason you run it is with a higher stall, and more power going thru the trans, you need a slight increase in cooling capacity... you gain this with the small aftermarket cooler added on to your existing cooler.... you LOSE cooling efficiency by ditching the existing in radiator cooler.


everyone that makes a radiator with a cooler, makes one without..... just say its for a manual trans car... they dont come with auto trans coolers.
----------
that same radiator keeps 502 BBC thirdgens on the thermostat in traffic, 408 LS1s, and its one of the most popular cheap replacements for kit cars, sandrails, ect...

its huge for a OEM radiator, its alum, and its efficient... buying a be-cool, griffen, ect is a waste of money in these cars.... (trust me, ive been around them long enough to know what works and what doesnt)

 

I knew it was good, but I had no idea it was THAT good. Thanks for the advice. Maybe I will just find a way to make this one look a little nicer and call it a day. hehe.

 

Now heres my next question (thanks for bringing this to my attention). Where do I locate my cooler? I was thinking right where my condensor used to be but that would make the coolant run in front of the radiator then back behind it to the engine. Would this be fine....that or I was thinking in the pass side fenderwell. But I would like where the condesor was mostly. Is this a suitable position. Also if its anything I am buying B&M's tranny cooler....and the one with the fan can be bought for a little more. Should I look into buying the cooler with a fan....so its even cooler. I know you dont want to be TOO COOL but I dont think the trans is bad if its cool....I might just have to get a tranny temp guage.

P.S. MrDude I just saw your post and was wondering what I shoulf buy if griffin is a waste of money. I am just trying to have my cooling system COMPLETE for summer. meaning stat, water pump, hoses, radiator, oil cooler, fuel cooler. I want it all done....and I can do it just need to know what to buy really.

 

I bought a direct fit replacement for mine and it was all copper and brass, no plastic. Also it was a 3 row core, the original had 2 slightly larger rows. I think it only cost about $100. I got from a place called Orange county Radiator in So. Cal.

 

if im using the "zip tie" style mounts, i usually mount it infront of the radiaitor (or condenser if equipped)... i usually mount it low, and slightly to the passenger size. i do use 1" foam/wood/metal(with foam ends) spacers to keep a slight gap between the radiator and the cooler.
if i am not using the zip mounts, i make a small bracket for it and mount it in the same area... anywhere on/above the radiator crosspiece is fine, as the airdam forces air over that area.


coolent does not flow thru the trans cooler.
transmission fluid does. aka ATF...



if mounted in the area we both were talking about, you dont need the fan model.
a trans temp gauge is always a good idea.



#1 thing you can do... if you dont have an electric fan setup, replace your mechanical fan with a electric fan.. im a huge "fan" (pun intended) of the "RS" style single fan setup... its very simple, reliable, and very effective.


if you already do have an electric fan setup, your next things really are to just maintain the system.
a coolent flush... and new GM sealing tablets or Bars stop leak.. (this is important), thermostat replacement (because they're cheap), and a check for cracks, wear and leaks on all hoses... if a hose is really "squishy" or deformed, replace it.

unless your radiator is broken in some way, theres no need to replace it, unless you have a heavily modified motor, and you have the early copper/brass radiators that are incapable of cooling it... (you wont have this issue)
----------
sure it was a direct fit..... but it wasnt the proper OEM replacement....

the replacement one we're referring to is the late style ( i dont know the changeover year) alum radiator. i know all 91s and 92s use it.

 

Thanks for answering alot. I have the single fan setup as of now. I just need to buy a new fan motor and wire it back up. But I want to change it so it comes on at 185*...how do i do that? The normal 220 isnt good enough. Another reason I need my cooling finished because if I cant change the operating temp to 185* then I might be in for trouble.

Sorry about the coolant thing....I did mean tranny fluid. So I am going to buy the cooler, probably the B&M 24,000 cooler. I know I dont need that big of one but its the biggest and its only a couple more bucks so might as well.

Where would I put the trans temp guage. I was thinking on running my lines on the passenger side stut rail (a little lip on the pass side of the car below the stut tower, and putting the guage furthest back....

I have no leaks but will look into the tablets to be safe. Thanks for all your help.

Lastly, how do I clean my radiator? It has the fan outline in it....and its a little dirty on the fins around it....some fins are silver and some are like a DARK gunmetal....almost BAD OIL BLACK. Lol.

And yes my condensor is out. ALL MY AC IS

 

my question to you is:
what have you done to your car to warrent changing the designed operating temp?
the car was built for that temp. the ECM was tuned to operate at that temp. lowering it will not help performance in the stock motor... so why do you want to do it?

if you really do want to change the temp, there are two things to change:
1. the thermostat.
2. the sensor in the block on the lower passenger side.

the thermostat sets the minimum operating temp for the engine. it does not however, limit how high temp can get.



the sensor kicks on the electric fan. it normally kicks on at the VERY REASONABLE temp of two hundred something.... of course, you can replace this sensor with one that comes on at a diffrent temp. do a search for part numbers...


i dont reccomend changing either one of thoes unless you've basiclly changed the entire motor.



i like the B&M super cooler.. its a good choice.


the gauge i would mount either in a piller pod, or hang under the dash, but you can mount it anywhere inside that you want.... the sensor for the gauge should go in the trans pan... the temp of the fluid sitting in the transmission ready to use, is what you want to know... not the temp coming in or out of it.

as for the area to run the lines, yea, i usually run them along that frame rail area, OR, i run them along the oil pan rail.... my usual choice is the pan rail due to exhaust header clearance, but as long as its far from the exhaust, its fine.


you dont have leaks now because GM puts them in every radiator in every car they make.

once you flush the cooling system, any pinholes that were plugged, will now leak.
its cheap insurance... the dealership has the GM ones, or you can get Bars Stop leak (its copper flakes in a tube) from everywhere.. even walmart. lol.




oven cleaner on the METAL (not the plastic end tanks) and alot of low pressure water (think garden hose without the sprayer on the end)
dont blast it with the spray gun, it will bend the fins.
dont touch the oven cleaner. wash your hands afterward.
this strips the alum to bare metal.. it will be shiny now... in 4 weeks, it will be the same dull, look that it has now (but clean).

if your radiator (for some reason) is painted, or has some kind of coating on it, dont use oven cleaner.
if its a black copper/brass one, its painted. dont use oven cleaner on it.

if you dont want to mess with the oven cleaner, a sponge, some water, and simple green works...... with some elbow grease of course.





oh, and another thing... use hose ment for transmission oil useage... DONT use cheap "fuel line", "vacuum line", or "PCV line" from the auto parts store.

 

I have nothing at the moment but this is what WILL be going on my motor.

FULL MSD IGNITION
FULL EXHAUST (HOOKER SHORTIES)
UNDERDRIVE PULLEYS
INTAKE MANIFOLD (ONLY MANIFOLD FOR TBI-EDELBROCK)
INTAKE 14X4"

So not much towards performance.....but I just dont want to overheat (as thats what the cars problem used to be)

Thats not everything but its all the good things right now.

I might look into hypertechs fan switches.....well temp switch....so it comes on at 195 I think I saw.

And the bars stop leaks I am def buying. It will clean the rest of my fluids and other things. looks like a good product.

 

that intake manifold sucks and is a waste of your money... do a search on the TBI board for more info and options.

the hypertech fan switch is a $12 GM fan switch for a diffrent app that they rebadge and resell for $40... do a search on here, get the part number, and you can spend $12 instead of $40.

although, i reccomend you save your $12 since having the fan kickon sooner wont help.



if you have an overheating problem, id suggest you troubleshoot it and fix the problem, NOT bandaid it by having the fan run all the time.
if it seems like its hard to find, first thing to check after the cooling system basics is the timing...

 

One thing I'll add to all the good info is using the Siemens fan motor(P/N PM517 - same motor for single,dual and most LT1/LS1 dual fans).They are the best,IMHO,to buy and come with a lifetime warranty.One thing I found is Auto Zone and Pep Boys sells them for about $30 cheaper than Advance/Parts America.Just my $.02

 

What would you recommend because Summit told me thats the best bet, and with my stock TB its the best also. Because when I upgrade to the Holley 670 I can just bore that manifold to 2". I need a manifold that will fit the Holley 670 on it.

Seen here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ring+edelbrock

As for the overheating, I wont have that problem when I am done. I want to have the fan running I got my 180 stat, all new hoses, new hi-flow water pump, royal purple additive, radiator cleaned and sealed. It will all be bought. So the overheating is no longer an issue.

 

like i said, search the TBI board...
but your best bet is NOT a direct fit TBI replacement... (of course summit cant tell you this because its not a direct fit.)
a carb replacement intake, plus a adapter yeilds the best results... only worry then is visual inspection, if you have it.

no.
you just threw parts at it.. you have no idea if overheating is an issue or not.
you need to diagnose and fix the problem.. not just throw parts at it.
you shouldnt use a 180 thermostat unless you can program/tune your TBI.
btw, when you say "have the fan running", i hope you dont mean running all the time... because all that will do is make it take longer to warm up, and kill the fan motor faster.
it will not solve any existing cooling problem.. think about it, if the car was hot, the fan should have been on anyway... and if it wasnt on, then the fan was broken to begin with and that was probably your cooling problem.


also, step back for a second and think about your experience with cars.. how long you've been around, and what you REALLY REALLY do know... then think:
Is 200* really too hot for my motor, or is it just some arbitrary number that i thought up and its really not too much?

 

Hey, I learn by what I throw out there and someone corrects. I call them my mistakes....yes I have only been around cars since 13-14 (I'm 19) and this IS my first car so I understand about the numbers. It just sucks being wrong all this time about things I could have swore were right. Hey I appreciate all your help. Now what do you think I should do now.

Oh and I just meant fan running....not actually running all the time (I need a new fan motor to get it running).

 

I run a factory autozone one in my formula with perfect cooling, but I run a direct BeCool in the camaro due to the intercooler and such

 

How much different in size is this rad from my 89 t/a one? Would my electric fans still work on this?

 

Shoot me a PM or something if you have any questions. I live right around the corner. I know these cars like the back of my hand lol.

 

I appreciate that. Will keep that in mind. Thanks alot.

 

I have a huge alumnium rad I picked up from a local store called Roppels. Supposedly it listed for much more than the $250 I paid, its a Heatex brand radiator.

To get it to fit I just fabbed a bracket up to hold it in place and used bicycle tire tubes for padding. I love making little custom things like the bracket and it looks killer. But I'm sure the stock alumnium rad I had would have been perfectly sufficient.

 

its probly the exact same radiator.

 

uh...that used to be the case...Summit now sells their own brand aluminum replacement radiator that is a direct fit. I have one in my possession...but have yet to install it. Its a 2 row aluminum. It is NOT the universal fit one that they have been selling for a while...

http://tinyurl.com/2nz6t2
Summit part # SUM-380455

 

I don't think so. It's been my experience that the crappy plastic end tanks last maybe 5 years, then crack and leak like hell. Or the gasket where the plastic tanks connect to the metal core will leak, like mine are doing now. I'm sick to death of radiator leaks and cracked plastic tanks. I'm getting a Griffin and throwing this stock POS in the trash where it belongs. If you like 'em, you can have 'em.

 

I keep seeing people saying "Use a generic aluminum rad", but I have not been able to find an actual part number that fits the car close enough to work. I have a Summit pn 380331 in the garage. It is listed as a 31x19 rad but it looks to be about 2 inches too tall to fit in the space.

The Summit direct fit is a decent price, but for my application, I don't need a trans cooler (mine is a T5 car) and the heater core and lines are removed as it is a track only car, so I don't need the extra fittings on this rad.

Does anyone actually have a PN or the extact dimensions for a generic aluminum rad that fits? This is for a track only CMC car.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

If the summit one is a decent price and you dont need the trans cooler lines why not cap them off. Seems like that would be the quickest and most cost effective. unlss you wanna spend for expensive be cool prducts or something like that.

 

Let us know how the install goes and if it really is a direct fit. Sounds/looks like it is from the ad. Are the rows wider then stock? I think i read they were 1" stock is what 5/8?

 

That would work and your right in that it might be easiest. For me, this is a road racer and I'm not big on the extra weight and complexity this rad has compared to what I need. I don't need the trans cooler (really just a tiny bit of dead weight) and the heater fitting would need to be plugged, which is just another point for it to form a leak at later in life. Not a huge deal in either case, just not optomized.... I think I found a Ron Davis that is 31 x 17, gonna call them tomorrow and check it out.

Jeff

 

that same radiator keeps 502 BBC thirdgens on the thermostat in traffic, 408 LS1s, and its one of the most popular cheap replacements for kit cars, sandrails, ect...

its huge for a OEM radiator, its alum, and its efficient... buying a be-cool, griffen, ect is a waste of money in these cars.... (trust me, ive been around them long enough to know what works and what doesnt)[/QUOTE]

--------------------------------------------------



Are you saying Be-Cool, Griffin, etc. doesn't work???? The OEM rad you suggest may work great, that's a plus. But to say these aftermarket rads don't work, because you've been around them enough to see what works and doesn't????? Or are you just saying they're overpriced compared to this OEM rad???

Cause I assure you a Be-Cool, Ron Davis, Griffin, etc, rad DOES work GREAT. (If that is what you were saying)

 

If these radiators are so efficient, why do so many people have problems keeping there stock 305BI cars from overheating? I understand trouble shooting and fixing the problems. But theres alot of people who have over heating in these cars. Don't get me wrong. I would much rather use a stock type radiator instead of having to make the 31x19 griffin work.

 

I hated the fit of my griffin. Then again I just slaped it in without doing anything to make it fit better like Jim85Iroc did. Im sure if you search his name you will find the post.

My next one is gonna be custom made. A friend of mine makes custom radiators for ATV's sprint cars,nascars,etc.. So Were mocking up one just like a stock one.

 

They are having other problems. The TBI cars have a single fan setup. Its the fans that are the weak area. That includes the dual fan setup. Install an LS1 fan setup and you shouldnt have any problems. Lowering the on and off temps qould be good as well.

Over the years the only problem i had was low speed air flow. Once the car was moving it would stay cool but heat up in stop and go heavy traffic during the summer with the ac going. Not enough airflow from the fans. Installed an LS1 fan setup adjusted the temps down. it stays around 180/190 now.

 

I ended up trying a Ron Davis generic that was listed at 31 x 16. It fits in the stock 3rd gen opening 100 times better than the 31 x 19 Summit I have. It will not need any cutting to make fit. I will need to fabricate a top mounting to hold it in place and to mount the fan to. I'll take some pictures and post if anyone wants to see. Looks like this size is going to work much better.

Jeff

 

Did you put it in yet? Ron makes some nice stuff. Id like to see how well it fits.

 

to answer the above questions directed at me:

of course the aftermarket ones work great.. they're efficent radiators and they're oversize... most of them are also overpriced, and thats why we're happy that the stock one works.


people overheat their TBI305s because something is wrong... maybe the airdam is missing, maybe they bumped the timing up too far... i donno... but if they're overheating, its due to a problem with their car, not the radiator itself.
people that "fix" it by putting in a huge radiator, either had a clogged radiator, or they just bandaided the real problem.


as for size, the generic one thats about an inch too tall works because you need to remember that the radiator doesnt stand up straight, its leaned back slightly.... i had a BeCool on my 82 camaro years ago... the 91 camaro i have now uses the stock 91 alum radiator, single RS fan, and can sit on the theromostat in traffic in 95+* summer heat.

 

Any word on the summit direct fit rad? I"ve had it saved in my wish list for a while but have'nt heard anything on it. I don't need it any time soon.

 

Here are some quick pics of the Ron Davis 31 x 16 in my '92. Still need to make up the top mount and the fan mount.

Driver side

Passenger side

Jeff

 

is there any difference between a radiator for a 91 camaro and any other year third gen radiator?

Is this a direct swap? If not, how long should it take to fit it in there?

 

My ron davis I ordered was the one with the fan shroud as the one pictured in their site and it came with the top mount customized out of aluminum. I think they said they would sell them alone for $40.00
----------
It is a direct fit.

 

Hmm, $960.....IDK, Be-Cool has kits for that much that are 3 row, with dual fans and wiring. Ill keep an eye out on this site, maybe a deal will come about. Thanks though..

 

I'd be interested to see how well it fits. I'm the process of installing a Northern Pro alum. radiator into my car. It's a larger "direct fit" race radiator.

No cutting needed to make it fit and I too need to fab up a top mounting bracket for it and to mount the stock fans to.

Here's some pics of where I'm at so far on the install. Have it all prepped to drop the radiator in. Spent this weekend installing a larger trans cooler and power steering cooler. I'll try to post some more pics when I'm done.

 

Advance sells a dual core plastic/aluminum direct fit replacement for around $170. Look for the optional radiator for 1989 IROC 350. The original is a single core. Should fit great and has all the original hook ups if you needed them.

 

Which did u get the two row or the 1 row aluminum?

 

alrigh

 

Alright guys, here's the deal. I sell radiators and own a radshop/warehouse and have for years. I have in stock a direct fit 2 row aluminum radiator for $309.30 plus shipping. You may or may not need it for your application but that depends on what you are trying to achieve. The stock fan comes on at 230 degrees or constant on with ac turned on. If the stock radiator could cool 800 horsepower on pump gas I would like to see that one! I have 720 hp blown street motor in mine and it wouldn't even come close so if your 800 hp bigblock had a prayer of running cool, it's and alcohol motor or they only run it for a few minutes. The aluminum radiator I sell is for automatic. My supplier only builds one version so they don't get stuck with a bunch of manual stuff or sell out of one or the other. This is a standard practice in automotive aftermarket radiators. Most aftermarket radiators will be automatic whether that's what you need or not and that's why. You do not have to plug it if you don't use it as you have to put fluid in one port to get it out the other. It is completely self contained and will not leak antifreeze. You can purchase a sensor if you want your fans to come on at a cooler temp than stock and if you chip the car accordingly, the cooler temps can help performance. You can run your trans cooler in the radiator or in tandem with a remote cooler up front or in a remote cooler only. If you run a remote cooler only you will need a multiplate low pressure drop unit (lpd) like the ones made by Long Mfg. A sizable one will run about $85 or $95 and that's what I run as a stand alone cooler with no problems. It has threaded fittings. I do not recommend the hose clamp/barb fitting one because I don't care how many clamps you use, they always bleed a little. There are alot of opinions being posted but this post is based on direct experience with a blown 383 pump gas car which I own and from being in the custom and regular radiator business since 1981. I still find it hilarious that someone thinks an 800 hp BBC can be cooled with a #951 or it's upgraded sister #750 stock type radiator. If that were the case, I could have just sold $129.00 rads for the last three blown BBC's I have worked on instead of needing to custom build 3 and 4 row aluminum rads for those applications. Wow, wished I would have known, LOL,LOL,LOL,...