3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

ok so my budget(wife) won't let me spend too much on car, but i'd rather have AC. have had car 2yrs, never had ac inspected, didn't work when i got it. air blows from vents strong but never cold. has never benn retrofitted. should i get inspection and something to fill that will take place of gas without retrofit? just to see? friend does hvac at KSC, but time is the factor. in florida it gets very hot! 2 kids in the car= sweaty& miserable

Fullsizewagon

Ok, it seems you'll need to replace the wife.. Hehe, no, just kidding!
Fixing the A/C may just be a matter of refilling it - which can be done cheaply by yourself, but it can also be neccessary to replace some seals in order to retain the fluid more than a short time - and that makes the matter much more involved.
First off it's best if you establish what kind of fluid/gas is used in your system. It says either R12 or R134a and then an amount in lbs on a label on your compressor. If you can't find it then you can locate one of the two valves with caps on the lines near the canister. If they look like car tyre valves then it's R12. If they are large & weird looking then it's filled with R134a.
R12 is not supposed to be used in industrialized countries anymore, and so it's hard to get hold of. Some (dubious?) companies offers hydrocarbon (flammable) replacement blends for R12. Despite the potential flammability I think it's a better alternative than retrofitting an R12 system to R134a, but A/C shops will have nothing to do with propane/isobutane blends in cars. R134a is the presently used industry standard and can be had in do-it-yourself refill kits.

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

R-12 2.25lbs, the seals, (grommets) need replacing for sure and i've read this to be an involved job.
Also heater box may leak, not sure. 3 "seals" total?

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

hey will i know for a fact the some of the maro's at the boneyard have compressors in them you should go out and see what it involves to doityerself. you may need the practice in case it turns in to one of thoughs in depth need a few cases of beer jobs. maybe saturday we'll talk about let me know i am going out to the yard the following sat. need to look at some of the same things.

DPSJosh

Well, the system had a leak obviously. You will need a receiver/dryer, to repair the leak, hook it up to a vacuum pump and vacuum down the system for a couple hours, then recharge it with r134a (retrofit kits are dirt cheap). You MAY need different hoses as r134a is a much 'thinner' refrigerant than r12. Other than that, you should be good.

PM me if you have any more question.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Does the compressor cycle at all? Does the air blow any cooler than just running vent? Or is it the same as running vent?

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

Cycle ? when at max full blast air comes out like new car, maybe feels colder but most likely cause air is moving faster over my skin.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

the air coming out fast isnt the ac, will, it is the blowers working. to find out if comp is kicking in you need to listen under the hood to see if comp come on when you have someone else hit the switch. if you have no freon in the system though then comp wont kick on anyway. go have yourself a look see.

Imadude_134

iTrader: (9)

I just replaced my compressor and accumulator, and tried to recharge but it wasnt taking. Looks like I forgot a step.

Where can i get a vacuum pump? And how much do they cost?

dontellmymom

I bought a cheap vacuum pump from http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96677 for 10.00. My system holds a vacuum for weeks, but when i charge it with R134 it will leak out in less than a week. I wonder if it is my hoses? I did a leak test and didn't find much .

Kwiksilverz28

Will, I have the conversion adapters. $5 and their yours. I also have the hoses to charge the car. Shoot a can of oil/freon in and see what happens. Let me know when you want to take a look at it.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

hey mike changing the ac clutch bearing isnt hard? is it? i just recharged my system and the comp works but makes all kinds of racket. bearings are shot just wondering how many bearings needed only one right. havent looked in the book yet.

thanks in advance

mikey

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

mike u mean new rubber seals or valve for highside lowside ?

Kwiksilverz28

I have no idea about replacing bearings. I just replace the compressor. I think they are like $150.

Will, the fittings to convert r12 to r134a. Low and high side, though all you really need is the low unless you want to hook the whole guage thing up. I don't have manifold guages for 134. Just r12. I have ase for a/c to buy r12 if you can find it, but it is too expensive. Just convert.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

thanks anyway mike. i just converted today. took like 5min till the compressor started to kick on and off. took like 2 and 1/4 cans of freon &oil to fill the system. took almost an hour to fill. i am going to read through the books i have for ac's and see about the bearing cause thoughs only cost like $20. if i can get this complete at that cost i might buy them tomorrow. it does blow cold now. just not as cold as it will with the compressor turning like it should.

later mikey

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

friend in hvac has r22 drop in replcement, to fill and check leaks, then i'll do r134.

Kwiksilverz28

I would not contaminate the system with an additional chemical. If you want to stay r12, or 134a. r22 is for homes.

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

i believe it's a r22 drop in replacement, mix. not reg r22. gonna use it for leak test. will not break down oil. fix leaks, pull out r22 mix. convert to r134.

Kwiksilverz28

Why not use 134a? It is cheap, and does not hurt the environment. Besides, you will not get the residues and oils out.

Use 134a.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

You TX and FL people with R134a conversions. How cold is the air coming out of the ducts? (MAX A/C, full cold on the slider, fan speed on low or medium low)

Kwiksilverz28

Ice cold. My 88 GTA was recharged when the motor was done in 2000, and is to this day still ice cold.

Cars without aftermarket tinted windows may struggle in the worst. My wife's brand new Scion xB was a prime example with it's greenhouse windows. Tinted them and no issues. Just too much heat.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Stick a thermometer in there sometime. Should be interesting to see what the temp is. Really humid places like FL have a harder time with A/C temps since the condenser is trying to shed heat to a humid environment. A retrofit to R134a if done really really well should work alright. But too many people do crummy conversions. If you did yours 8 years ago and it still works that good, it sounds like you did things the right way.

uemf

check with Autozone, I've borrowed an AC vacuum pump from them a couple of times when doing AC work on my inlaw's car. make sure you check the oil level before hand... if you break it (or it burns up while you have it due to no oil) you bought it. Harbor freight has cheap gauges.

Tony

DJP87Z28

I did R134 conversion last year for $375 with a rebuilt compreesor. The air coming out of my vents is between 46/48 degs when the outside air is 90 degs. I have a thermometer stuck in the center vents for this temp. check.

Kwiksilverz28

Will, a little update!!!!

Let me! Will bought some R134a adpaters and a can of freon and oil. John (mnyptz) provided a can and a half of freon, and the elite ASE certified a/c tech (me :-) ), charged it. Ice cold!!! Of course, anyone could have done this. These are sealed systems, but they all will leak a little bit over 20 years. Try to charge them. The ASE cert only gets me the right to by r12, which I always say just buy the adapters and go 134a. It is too cheap not too!!!!

89RsPower!

If the comp works but makes noise its probably a bad compressor clutch.
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thats a confusing post right there, you got 134a adapters and a can of r12 and oil and another can and a half of r12 and charged it?
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I just converted my system over to r134a, it was completely empty to due to a bad o-ring above the expansion tube, I replaced the o-rings, put the 134a fittings on, dumped the old oil out of the compressor, replaced with the correct oil, and charged it. Total cost was $20 in parts and works perfect.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

The reason you need a vacuum pump is to suck all the air and water out of the system. Air carries moisture and when you pull a vacuum you are changing the temp that water boils, and it will actually boil and get sucked out when you are using the vacuum pump.

Air is compressible and your compressor is compressing air in the lines (anything that leaks out can also mean that you are leaking IN air) instead of compressing refrigerant. Also, since air carries moisture, water is noncompressible and is also condensible. It turns from water vapor to liquid water in the lines as it cools.

With a closed system, there should be no leaks and the system should be empty. Meaning a void, or emptiness, like nothing in there. This is when you are adding a pressurized can of refrigerant that will fill that void along with the oil you are adding.

The oil is very important and its important to distinguish between a loose belt that vibrates making noise, low refrigerant oil and a noisy clutch.

I did a R-134a conversion to my IROC that originally came with R-12. All original lines, compressor and drier etc. Just changed the fittings, pulled a vacuum on it for 45 minutes, filled with refrigerant and oil and got cooling.
It works very well.

My Z28, I replaced the condenser, compressor, A/C lines, drier & orifice tube, and had that evap cleaned by an A/C shop and with new orings (all for R-134a components). Even after the dual fan conversion with two high speed fans that come on with the a/c the cooling is marginal at best.

If memory serves correctly, I used three cans in both my cars, at 2 1/2 cans its started to cool down and at 3 it was just right.

If you have an air compressor and a few minutes buy that thing from harbor freight and give it a shot. I wish they had that when I was doing the A/C work but the dedicated vacuum pump pulls down to a few microns.

Kwiksilverz28

[QUOTE=89RsPower!;3806414]


thats a confusing post right there, you got 134a adapters and a can of r12 and oil and another can and a half of r12 and charged it?
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QUOTE]

No, I did not say that. I said freon and oil, and more freon. The only time I mentioned the r12 is the fact that you have to have a certification to get it these days, and though I have that certification, I typically choose to use r134a and adapt.

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

update. it blew ice cold for 6 days. friday it seemed to be cycling to much. sat no cold! blows, cycles, no cold. leak maybe? new comp. needed? oh well.

89RsPower!

[QUOTE=Kwiksilverz28;3807453]freon=r12 r12=freon.
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You most likely have a leak as indicated by the fast cycling which would indicate either low or high pressure.

Kwiksilverz28

[QUOTE=89RsPower!;3807551]In the 1990s, most uses of Freon chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) were phased out due to the negative effects that CFCs have on the Earth's ozone layer. DuPont began to phase out its production of Freon CFCs in the 1980s after federal regulatory agencies banned their use.[2] The interim replacements for CFCs are hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs), which contain chlorine that depletes stratospheric ozone, but to a much lesser extent than CFCs.[3] Ultimately, hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) will replace HCFCs with essentially no ozone destruction, yet they are classed as greenhouse gases. DuPont began producing hydrofluorocarbons as alternatives to Freon in the 1980s. These included Suva refrigerants and Dymel propellants.[4] Any of these gases that are used as refrigerants are designated by an "R-" number and colloquially known as "Freon", whether they are made by DuPont or another supplier.

So, no freon does not equal any specific refrigerant.

IF it was working fine, and then began to cycle fast and no longer blows cold, there is no question. You have a leak. Now, we just need to shoot some dye in and see where. Not that hard if you are game.

Guro 305

[quote=Kwiksilverz28;3807593]Funny part was it was all B.S. considering R12 is so dense it couldn't get three feet off the ground much less high enough to cause any damage to the ozone unless it was ozone inside a fish tank!

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

Actually, Freon refers to ozone depleting CFC's like R-12 and R-22 and other ozone depleting chemicals. It is a registered trademark from Dupont and is specifically for those refrigerants only.

Now what probably happened is that people began to make it what is called a "common term" or "generic term" and used it interchangeably with other types of refrigerants.

This has happened to other types of brand names as well, such as Kleenex brand tissues. People stopped saying tissues and started saying Kleenex. Companies that have the big market share will fight tooth and nail to keep these words from becoming a generic term and there have been big lawsuits to make sure these brands stay that way.

Think about it, other brands that have been turned into a colloquial term:

Band-Aid
Chap Stick
Q-tips
Windex

Impress you friends and family with the word of the week: colloquial

Kwiksilverz28

That was straight from wikipedia.

No doubt the word started as one thing, but today, that is what is accepted in the businese....

89RsPower!

I wouldn't call it accepted, but one of the older guys I work with call's 134a "freon" too, though hes not the most intelligent.. I'm not actually sure if he knows it isn't freon.. and as stated take anything you read on wikipedia with a grain of salt.. some of the stuff on there is downright hilarious.. also read the first line of what you posted "In the 1990s, most uses of Freon chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) were phased out due to the negative effects that CFCs have on the Earth's ozone layer".. right they were replaced with refridgerants such as r-134a

Toehead

To add to the debate, I've had both 134A and hydrocarbon in my car.

The 134a got the vent temps down to 45 degrees.

The hydrocarbon got the temps down to 36 degrees with less high side pressure.... Just food for through

Kwiksilverz28

Hydrocarbon is a flammable substance and is prohibited by the EPA as a refrigerant in automobiles. Plus, it is a pressurized flammable substance. Not a good idea IMO.

Toehead

the fuel rail also contains a pressurized flammable substance, except that it's heavier then air and stays on the ground while it burns.

I'd rather have the HC the burns upwards.

I think the benefits outweight the risks, but everybody is entitled to their own opinions.

Kwiksilverz28

You make a point, but consider this. The fuel system is at 60 psi give or take max, and is designed to contain a flammable substance. The A/C high side is considerably higher, and it is designed for a non-flammable chemical.

Then again I was cutting limbs from my power lines tonite. No zap zap. HA!

Guro 305

How do you use the damn thing?

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

compressor leaking from rear elec. plug in connection. how to i re-seal this? i unplugged connection, removed c-clip, but can't get further.

theimpaler68

iTrader: (1)

isnt that your ac clutch switch? pic would help willie. missed you at the meet today buddy. we had five cars. i am still waiting on my compressor in the mail. it has been on back order. you may want to get a new o ring set if you havent done that yet. let us know.

3rdGenWillie

iTrader: (1)

bump..............