Soupjmpr

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if this is the right message board to post this in, but I'm rebuilding my 92 from the ground up and want to install a Vintage Air A/C system. Vintage says it can be done with mild mods, but I was curious if anyone has seen or knows anyone that has installed one in a thirdgen...thanks for any advice!

iluvmy91camaro

92 BBC Z

Vintage Air Manufacture's the best aftermarket aircondition systems in the world. There made right here in SanAntonio, I've been to there facility, seen the craftsmanship, there second to noneone.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

The problem with an underdash unit is...there just isnt much space. And I know thats what vintage air specializes in. But with how shallow our dashes are, and how close the firewall is, it gets REAL tight, especially when it comes time to run duct work. Thats why all the duct work is tight and formed.

But I was interested in this a while back too. I couldnt get past the price of the units to look into it much further, but Ide be interested in seeing how they fit and work in a thirdgen for sure!

J.

Soupjmpr

iTrader: (1)

Well as soon as I get back from Afghannyland, I will start the work on the car. If I do go with the vintage air setup, I will definitely post pics and the work done along the way.

LT1swapper

Right in the middle of a Vintage Air Gen IV Magnum install on "Project Snowball". Look for an upcoming issue of GM High Tech Performance.

The original unit is actually quite a bit larger than the GEN IV. While the third-gens dash looks shallow, we still have plenty of room because we don't have a glove box sucking up the space. The only real space problem I have found so far is routing the coolant and AC lines as the cowl is lower on our cars than on a first-gen f-body where you traditionally see these installed.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

I too, am curious about aftermarket air cond. Mostly I was curious as to how to get the condensor out of the front and the airbox out of the engine compartment. I worked for an equipment rental place several years ago and they converted a couple of dozen yale forklifts to include air conditioning. They mounted a stand-alone airbox with the evaporator inside behind the operators seat and the condensor on the back with an electric fan.

eseibel67

These retrofit kits work great on a '57 Chevy, but I don't think it's practical for cost and packaging reasons on a 3rd gen.

Wouldn't it be easier to just pull everything out of a junkyard donor?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

the vintage air setup is half the size and comlexity of the factory junk. For those interested in cleaning up the clutter in the engine bay this is a great solution. Check out the May 2011 issue of HOTROD, they put one of these setups in the E-Rod project '79 Z28. You should see it compared to the pile of factory garbage, it's half the size.

I'll have to check that out when it comes out in GMHTP. My dad has an LT1 already built that we'll be installing into his 91RS next winter. He wants to keep the AC, this might be a great option.

IAGTA

I couldn't find any Vintage Air retro-fit kits aren't available for the Third Gen. I wanted to change the compressor to a more modern unit and nothing seems to be available. I'm sure you could make one of these systems work but it seems that the factory system in the 1892-92's is fairly sophisticated (except for the compressor maybe) compared to earlier systems.

LT1swapper

Yes, the third-gen's system is better than the 1st and 2nd, but really, the more I get into it the more I find it similar to earlier systems. I'm not advocating we all run out and put Vintage Air systems in our cars, but I wanted to see what the benefits would be. Sure, it's not for everyone, for a ton of reasons, budget, originality, install difficulty, etc, but there is no reason some third-gens can't get the cool parts we are seeing on first and second gen pro-touring cars.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

^^^^ I agree! ^^^^

LT1swapper

I am wrapping up this story today, is there anything you guys would like to see covered?

Once the story hits news stands I can put up some photos as well.

LT1swapper

Story is online now, so if you aren't getting GMHTP in your mailbox, you can check it out here

GMHTP "Modern Overhaul" Part I

It's tight, but it fits.

iluvmy91camaro

Total price? I just looked at the pictures in the article, but I definitely am going to do this. Exactly what I was looking for

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Looks very clean compared to factory also. Is that another damn computer to run it sitting on top?
also what is the weight difference from factory parts? If any?

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Bump, I want this.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Is this modular....as in removable when not in use?

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Its about as removable as your engine.

When and where is part 2? I want to see some vent routing, and model # as there are quite a few part numbers for the gen 4.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I want to see more pics, duct routing, what the firewall/engine bay looks like, and hear how well it works!!! Also...if it can be used with a stock LS1 a/c compressor, and if not...will the vintage air compressor mount in the stock LS1 location.

So many questions! haha. I hate giving up air in my car. And I spent so much time building the HVAC box to accomodate the 4th gen parts. But...I hate having so much junk in the engine bay. Im on the edge of ditching a/c completely at this point. But dont want to commit to that quite yet!

J.

LT1swapper

I'll try to answer questions as I can. For starters, this photo will give an idea of where ducts will go and the space available under the dash.
Keep in mind I gutted the factory wire harness as well because we are upgrading the car to an ISIS Multiplex system which will be in an upcoming story.

I don't think the LS1 compressor works, but Vintage Air has solutions for that.

Yes, that's a computer of sorts on top of the unit, it controls the servo motors and interfaces with the controller.

For part numbers it's best to just give Vintage Air a call. There's several ways you can kit this thing out and they don't have a direct fit kit for third-gens.

Not sure what the weight difference is but I think it's safe to say it's quite a bit lighter -- I was going to try and weigh the systems but I ran out of time.

I would have loved to go into every step in the story, but we just don't have the room and some details like duct routing weren't going to be ready until we finished packaging the ISIS and the PCM under the dash.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

deff. need to see a complete write up. and finished product details.

onefast85

its a great write up, as i plan to do this to mine...i plan to use the factory air vents though..any more pics or details would help all of us...do you have a contact guy at vintage air that will remember this build?that would help a great deal.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Just my .02, I like OldAir out of Fort Worth better. Their units seem to cool better.

onefast85

man they got some good prices..1160 for the whole kit...

what does the vintage system cost?anyone know?

chevymec

iTrader: (5)

Gonna keep an eye on this one!! My current RS had all the HVAC stripped out and I have an 85 will all the needed parts.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

updates? I would like to see your part #s (LT1swapper) if you could. Specifically the defroster ducts, as I cant find them in Vintages catalog. I called them, they stated that they dont make a direct fit kit for third gens, which I knew already, then the tech guy went into a series of no, I dont know, no, I dont know. He stated that any group purchase would have to go through a retailer and not directly through Vintage. When asked, he stated that there is no thirdgen kit in the works because the demand is not there. I asked if I could show enough demand, would they make a kit? He stated that they must have a car for R and D for 6 months to year to engineer a direct fir kit. I offered them my car or just buying them thier own thirdgen. He then transfered me to the national sales director to talk about getting a direct fit kit produced, I have yet to speak to this elusive national sales director. Its kind of sorry, one day down the road they will make a kit for thirdgens. It just makes sense and money for them to make it sooner as oppose to later. In any event, I guess I will end up having to custom make my own kit.

Soupjmpr

iTrader: (1)

AGREED!!! I want nothing more than to have a vintage air kit in my 92' I recently gutted my HVAC...literally...I have a steering wheel in the cab, that's it!! It would make sense for them to develop one since the thirdgen's are almost exclusively "antiques". I will never part with my third gen...ever!!! I talked to a vintage air guy and he said the Gen IV universal kit would be the way to go. There would have to be some fabricating...obviously! But, he was pretty helpful and said a thirdgen kit would be sweet. Let me know if you get more info...I am very interested. The thought of having a complete internal a/c without vacuum operated "doors", etc. would be nice. Maybe we can put our collective minds together and come up with our own fab.

On a completely other subject...know anyone or have any ideas on a rolling dolly for thirdgens. I have to have my car undercoat redone. I'm doing it myself and want the ability to roll my car around in my garage with the entire suspension/drivetrain out of the car. I think I will just build one...

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I like the Vintage Air install, but that dash they made for the gauges is fugly.

Soupjmpr

iTrader: (1)

I haven't checked out the dash yet...but I am very soon getting to the point of making a decision on what I am going to do....I have a 92' "cab" with literally a steering wheel....

LT1swapper

I feel your pain, it would be really nice to have a direct fit kit for third-gens, but as far as Vintage Air knows I am the first person to put one of it's GEN IV's into a third-gen -- the demand just isn't there.
I'm on the road right now but I'll about those defrost duct P/N's when I get back.

LT1swapper

Nothing wrong with that, It's always cool to get feedback.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

I cant seem to find the defroster ducts that you used in the catalog. Did I just miss them?

onefast85

all you guys should look into this.^^^^way better deal and better outlay for the unit IMO.i plan to buy one.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

i got my ac lines from there to put a universal fit parallel flow consensor in my car...great place.


and right down the street practically

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Im trying to compare apples to apples...
Vintage Air 961071 gen IV complete $1,334.95 Summit racing
Old Air Hurricane 1100 complete $1,160.00 Old Air diffrence $174.95
Vintage Air uses an electronic blend control valve, Old Air does not say
Old Air is modular (able to be dissasembled for service), Vintage does not say (but appears to be servicable).
These were prices for complete kits in order for a comparison. Clearly we would have to order ours ala carte which could dramatically change the price diffrence.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Any updates? I got my gen 4 mock up in yesterday. Would like to see what you did for the front bracket. I am thinking of how to do the coolant bypass valve, since Vintages only have two fittings.

85TransAm406

iTrader: (1)

They made the front bracket so that it also mounted the Mastercell for the ISIS wiring they did. As for the coolant bypass, it is built into the unit itself, so there are only two fittings feeding the unit, however, it does have a bypass, so no ugly valve in the engine compartement. On the GEN IV anyway, i'm doing mine when I get back from Afghanistan, I also stripped my car and welded up the firewall to do this already, it's been in the planning stages actually since i was in Iraq 4 years ago, when i had the car painted, I had the firewall welded up then for this.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Did I miss part 2?

85TransAm406

iTrader: (1)

They actually covered the front bracket and such in part III. Part II was just an overview of the new wiring system, and covered how they built the cluster.

bpittman

Part II: http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/ghtp_1109_function_display_and_functionality_install_modern_overhaul_part_ii/index.html

Homer

iTrader: (1)

They saved 40 lbs. with their 70's Camaro in Hot Rod. FORTY POUNDS! That's a significant percentage of the weight difference the LSX guys are always crowing about.

Does this thing cool as well with such a smaller unit? No more "suitcase" in the engine bay!

What are the options for the dash control unit? Those three generic looking little *****. Can it be hooked up to the factory controls for a factory look?

With less equipment under the dash, will this free up room to move the firewall back for a engine setback?

Homer

iTrader: (1)

If the "suitcase" is all in the cabin, where does the water drip? All air conditioners drip condensation, where does this one drain?

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Good question.

85Special

i'm kinda in the same boat and have been looking into both old air and vintage. old air says they have a drain tube for the condenser... would assume the same for ventage air that would be a rather large oversight

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Both units require a drain tube to be intalled.

85Special

Pretty much decided on the vintage system. looking to find out if all the ducting went in and if the computer had to be relocated?

Basically i'm trying to do this to a car that is on the road now and trying to find out if this stuff fits without a bunch of mods and fabs.

85Special

Ok i took the plunge, ordered the gen iv. Little info for you all. My car is an 85 and have the under dash vents that restrict the space under the dash even further than the pictures of "Project Snowball" however it will still fit. Get hard lines and be comfortable with a tubing bender don't bother trying to use a bulkhead. I also have the strange V-belt serpentine combo. V-belt runs the smog pump and P/S pump serpentine runs the alt. My smog pump is long removed for headers and a 3in exhaust. My original idea was to drop the alt to low passenger side, install the compressor above and low mount the P/S. This did not work, the low alt bracket hit the steering arm. I ended up driver high with the compressor, P/S driver low, stock alt brackets. thankfully the passenger mount was a mirror image of the driver side couple spacers and a little tweaking and i was in business.

I'm still in the proccess of installing, but i'm far enough to tell that everything will fit. and far enough to advise all that chose to do this... don't do it in phoenix in the middle of the summer... in the driveway... IT SUCKS!

I have a few ideas to clean up the install on the interior side. I ordered the basic controls for the gen iv which comes with a template i believe with a plastic panel i can install it in the same place as stock. My car had the basic heat system so i'm actually missing the vents by the doors so i'll have a clean place to cut in the vintage air vents. as for the center vents i think i can use a chunk of the old air ducts to attach the hoses. also have a thought about when you turn the dial to heater and the air comes out at your feet. I think i can rout that to stock as well. I'll take pictures and such as i get it figured out.

AussieIROC66

Great thread. I just bought a 89 IROC here in Australia, the A/C is worse than woeful. I will have to start thinking of alternatives to the stock setup.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

For those of you that have personally talked to someone at Vintage Air, did they say that they were possibly looking into developing a kit for these cars in the further? I have no A/C at all and would love to add in a new system down the road but one of the things I would really like to see is the use of the stock HVAC controls.

LT1swapper, does the Vintage Air HVAC control panel work of vacuum like the 3rd gen unit does?