abray1

Got my Cooling issues solved so I wanted to test how important the front air dam was. I have a be cool rad, aluminum pump, recently installed Taurus fan, 170 gm stat, straight water no anti-freeze, new cap, new heater core and all new hoses. In 90 plus degree weather with the air dam at 60mph it would run around 180. It would rise a little and fall a little indicating the stat was working properly. Same drive without the air dam resulted in the car creeping to a needle width below 220 and staying there untill I slowed down for in town traffic and red lights when it would go down when idling but up when creeping along and the RPMs were elevated around 1600rpm or so. The air dam is worth around a 40 plus degree difference according to my car. The engine is a stock 92 Z vert 305tpi automatic with stock exhaust. The only mods are a CS144 alternator and the trans cooler is mounted in front of the a/c condensor and does not use the radiator. The throttle body has been by passed (no hot water). When I turn the heater on it does a good job cooling the engine also. Everyone knows that trick and I turned it on in town once to see how well it would work and it cooled the car down significantly. This trick does not work when you are low on water though.

Slow87

Thanks for the useful info! My car currently doesn't have an air damn, and I have been debating buying one. You just convinced me!

Coyote850

iTrader: (1)

Just put my new air damn on. Hadn't had one in god knows when. I got like an inch ground clearance when pulling into my drive...........

Dale/89RS

Convinced!

2007xl50

I have know about the air damn differance for a long time. Back in the 90's my uncle had a 90 RS 305 TBI in FL. He got sick of the air dam scrapping all the time so he trimed it down some. He said the car did run a bit hotter after the air dam trim. my car still have the air dam ans always will evern after I lower it.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Adding Anti-freeze will raise the boiling point of water & will not reduce its cooling ability plus it acts as a "rust inhibitor" so Anti-freeze is actually a good thing to have.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Agreed with the anti freeze.... Not to highjack this thread, but I noticed 2 different styles of "air dams"... 1 is the flat plastic (some have 2 side pieces) and the other style is a pointed / V piece...

Anyone know the difference? looks like the flat one would pull in more air...???

Rafael

Dakota W.

I just have one question. Why are you running water in 90 degree weather and expecting your temps to be cold? Water runs at least 100 degrees hotter than antifreeze, with or without an air dam.

GICATA

Thanks for the good info....I've been wanting to get a new one for my 83. I see the 406 (stock radiator) run about 190 at slow speeds and about 220 on the highway, more if it's hot out and/or I go further.


Besides, don't they help aerodynamics at highway and race speeds by controlling some of the ground air under the car and the hood??

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Wrong. 100% water cools the best but you need antifreeze to prevent rust, seal failure and to help prevent cracked motor parts in cold weather.
Less coolant (to a point) will cool better.

(this information is taken from another website..)
The problem:
Sometimes a water-cooled engine such as the (insert any gas motor here) seems to run hotter than it should, for no apparent reason. An identical engine installed the same way in another car may be fine, but one runs hot, and the other doesn't. This problem can cause no small amount of hand-wringing and head scratching, but as mysterious as it may seem, it may be quite simple to fix.

Now, more precisely, the situation we're talking about is this: the coolant temperatures may run up to the 180 - 190 F range as opposed to the more reasonable 165 - 175 F. Our radiator may be no smaller than someone else's that works just fine, and the thermostat is not stuck or obstructed. It just runs hot.

The problem might be that the coolant mix is too rich. That is, too much "antifreeze" and not enough water. And to no one's surprise, what you do to fix it is take out some of the antifreeze and replace it with water. Reducing the mix ratio can easily lower the temperature by 15 F.



Why a rich mix gives less cooling:

First of all, in this article, we refer to the stuff you buy simply as “antifreeze.” It comes under many different trade names, and for automotive applications, is usually ethylene glycol. We'll just call it “antifreeze.”

Now if you've ever poured the stuff into a radiator, you no doubt observed that it is much “syrup-i-er” than water. That is, it has a much higher viscosity. This means that it will not flow as fast through the system as water, and the cooling effect will be less.

Further, the specific heat of antifreeze is less than that of water. This means that for a given temperature change, the antifreeze will carry less heat each time it circulates from engine to radiator and back.

So, if the mix is too rich, the cooling efficiency will be reduced because (1) the flow rate is less, and (2) less heat is transferred per cycle of the coolant.

The manufacturer's recommendation:
The standard recommendation is to use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. This represents a compromise between cooling efficiency and the ability to prevent the mix from freezing during cold weather. After all, the initial purpose of antifreeze is to prevent freezing.

But a 50/50 mix does not give the best cooling. For improved cooling in hot weather, we should use less antifreeze and more water, perhaps going to a 25/75 or a 20/80 mix ratio.

Everyone knows antifreeze prevents corrosion, and corrosion is bad. True enough. But, even a 10/90 ratio of antifreeze to water will serve the puproses of inhibiting corrosion, at least according to one source of information.

More is better!
Not in this case. When you're adding the coolant to an engine, especially to an aircraft/car engine, you want to do it as good as it can be done. Cut no corners! Don't use just a little if a lot will do. After all, the stuff coming out of the jug looks high-tech and scientific, and it's expensive, so it must be good. Therefore, use a lot!

Yes, the stuff is good, high-tech, and all that, but it's physical properties are not as good as plain, pure water when viewed from the point of cooling. Therefore, you must resist the temptation to put in more just because more seems like it should be better.

Results:
Temperature drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing the mix from 50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give precise numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial mix was, and so forth.

91specialk

Just a thought... I wonder if you trimmed a bit from the air damn (to prevent scraping) but also grind a groove into the front (start about 1/2 inch above the bottom) to make a lip on the front of the air damn. Theoretically this should create a more aggressive air flow similar to a functional spoiler. What do you guys think? "Things that make you go Hmmmm"

I'll share the rights to this patent =) but it has probably already been done.

abray1

1st. Water is the best coolant there is but when it boils it expands and turns into steam which is not a good coolant. It also is pushed into the coolant recovery where it does not cool the engine.
2nd. Anti-freeze raises the boiling point which allows the coolant to stay liquid and in the radiator where it does its job.

In the old days they used alcohol (Ford model T) in the radiator but I think that was just to keep the water from freezing. I know my grandfather made moonshine and put it in his cars.Anyone know if alcohol raises the boiling point or is just to keep it from freezing?
3rd. Distilled water does not have the salts and minerals that aid in corrosion in the cooling system. Water wetter and purple ice are good for about a 15 to 20 degree temp reduction.
4th. The air dam should not be trimmed since it will not be pushing as much air through the radiator. They made them out of plastic so the would bend and go back into position. I think some kind of hinge or spring system should be incorporated so a larger one could be used. I made one out of aluminum that was larger and it worked better but rubbed more in low places. You guys trying the taurus fan be sure and use a 40 amp fuse or it will blow. Also look at the wire size coming out of the fan motor and use one size larger to help with heat. They also make a factory re-settable fuse that plugs into the factory harness. I bought one and it is well designed. I actually have two now since I installed the factory one. The fuse has to be 40 amp. I blew a 25 and three 30s QUICKLY. I think I used #6 stranded wire also.

emeryz28

I can't seem to find a fuse on my 92 Z-28. Do you have a picture of your fuse location. I see a connector, but can't seem to find a fuse in it. It looks like a fusible link.

With regard to the heavier wire and larger draw of the single Taurus fan, I took the positive and negative wires going to each fan (I originally had two) and tied them together so they are running in parallel to power the Taurus fan. I haven't had a problem with blowing fuses or melting wires and I drove it around today in 100 degree stop-and-go traffic. Do you think the combined draw from the two original fans is equal or greater than the Taurus fan?

By the way, it sure does work better to get the temps down. Where I would normally see 250 degrees, I saw 235.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

[QUOTE=abray1;5296338]1st. Water is the best coolant there is but when it boils it expands and turns into steam which is not a good coolant. It also is pushed into the coolant recovery where it does not cool the engine.
2nd. Anti-freeze raises the boiling point which allows the coolant to stay liquid and in the radiator where it does its job.
[QUOTE]

Water, when heated, expands, thats the big reason for the overflow tank/jugs. They also hold a lil bit extra water incase it gets very cold and also so we aren't going around dropping coolant all over the road.
Older cars never had expansion tanks/coolant jugs. I know on older GM cars there was a line on the tank of the rad that was about 2" down from the neck. That was the fill line. Most people always filled it to the top not thinking about what happens when water gets hot and without a coolant jug, on the ground it went.
Higher PSI (aka the rad cap) is also plays a big part in increasing the boiling point of the coolant system.

abray1

I also have two fans but remember that a lot of the time only one fan is working so half of your wiring is not being used. I think I used #6 wire. I like the audio wire the radio guys use. It is very high grade and fine stranded. Electricity likes surface area.

The factory wiring was heavy and will probably work but I went with a flexalite controller and wired mine straight from the battery. The wiring has to go the controller which is limited to a spade but I do Air Conditioning work on the weekends and have high quality spades and electrical parts. I will try and get a picture of the fuse I found and how I wired my fan. The flexalite controller I went with I am very happy with. It has a **** to control when the fan comes on so in the winter time you can simply turn it a little and warm things up. It can be wired to the A/C or a switch;very versatile.

I had to go to a parts store and get a 40 amp blade fuse since I blew my 30s but a 40 held. I finally got in the factory taurus circuit breaker and it is designed very well and resets itself. I have a few of the resettable breakers on my car. I put the battery in the trunk and have a 250 amp breaker back there. Just flip a switch and the power is off to the whole car. No more trying to find a 5/16th wrench and take the battery cable off. I have a power junction block on the passenger fender where I run power to the starter and other things. The alternator feeds to it and with the alternator being on the other side of the car it feeds power to the things on the drivers side. It has allowed me to install another circuit breaker that feeds relays that control other fans and things.

emeryz28

It sounds like your car is far from stock. I drove my car off the dealer lot back in 1992 and it has been one of our daily drivers over the past 20 years. I'm just trying to keep it going at this point. There is no better car than one that you don't have to make monthly payments. May 1997 was the last time I sent in my $405.72. The car has been good to me, although virtually worthless according to the Bluebook.

Hopefully the parallel wiring will keep me from melting wires with the Taurus fan. I am pretty impressed with it so far. Definitely better than the dual factory fans.

abray1

I agree, I will not use a factory fan ever again. My engine and trans are bone stock and I have owned one of these cars since 1991. I don't like payments either and I am down to just a house payment and monthly bills. Here in Arkansas the summers are brutal and the cooling systems have to be in tip top shape or you will have problems. I do have a be cool rad and I run my trans cooler through an external cooler and filter and not through the rad. The wiring is also modified because I am good at wiring since I have done air conditioning work since the early 80s. I have corvettes that I never drive because the 3rd gens are what interest me and I think they are one of the best looking cars ever made especially in convertible form. I want an all black 89 GTA and I will be done. I have been experimenting with the cooling system in these cars since I was in my mid 20s in the late 80s early 90s. I have installed a 9 bolt with 327 posi and pbr rear disc which is the biggest change I have done. I have also changed all the sway bar bushings, shocks, panhard and control arms with the good ones and that does make a difference. I am trying to learn about cams pertaining to driveability and tuning so the car will still drive like a stock car instead of a race car. I want the vert to be a cruiser. I have a iroc that is a race car that I have owned since 1991. It is heavily modified with solid roller, brodix, ford 9 detroit locker, 42lb injectors, 2210s, 4" mufflex etc. I always drive the vert unless it is cold.

emeryz28

Sounds like we are about the same age. There is definitely something about the looks of the third gen that was lost in the later model. Back when I had more money than brains I had a blower on the Z-28 that put out about 12 pounds of boost. I got tired of spending every day off underneath the car trying to fix whatever weak link was giving me a problem at the time. I probably should have just done like you and experimented with a different rear end instead.

I consider myself lucky that I am still happy with my Z. Too bad the designers felt compelled to reinvent the wheel with a drastically different design in order to pander to a wider customer base, just as BMW and Mercedes did back in the mid-90's.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

abray1--
I for 1 would be interested in seeing your wiring & terminal setup.
We have the single stock fan & Holley Blue pump going thru relays to the batttery. I was thinking about some type of power block // terminal to clean up the ugly wires allll over the place, & I have an interest in going Taurus fan & controller like yours, which a few others are using. A visual would be Aces High!!

abray1

I got some pictures today and will try and learn how to send them in the morning. I have a college degree, a masters degree,a class A HVAC license and I am a building contractor. I also worked in higher education for almost a decade (Dean of Cont Ed) and I don't know how to send a picture over the internet. My 8 year old neighbor can and he is going to give me a lesson tomorrow. He can't tie his shoes very good but he knows gadgets and my computer and I phone way better than I do. I will explain what I did so you can get a mental picture before the real pictures.

I bought one of the battery mounts and mounted the battery in the rear on the passenger side like all good hot rodders do. I ran 0 gauge audio wire through the rear fender and out the bottom of the inner structure (under the striker) along the sill panel and drilled a hole under the a/c fan and ran it up to the power block on the inner fender. On the rear wheel well just about six inches from the battery I used gasket maker to (glue) the breaker right beside the battery. I also use the good audio wire lugs that use an allen wrench to secure the wire. I also take copper pipe
(air cond pipe) and I put it over the wire and beat it closed with a big hammer then drill a hole that fits my application perfectly. I usually do this to the alternator since I use #4 wire and the lugs don't fit like I like. I then run another large wire from the alternator to the drivers side fender or inner fender that way I have a good power source on both sides. I usually install my relays on the rad support beside the air cleaner since I hide the wires under the support channel. I bolted my flexalite controller to the fender overhang where the fuse holder is for the factory fans except more forward where the rad support meets the fender. My trans filter is mounted at the bottom of the rad support where the battery was. This makes it easy to run the trans lines to it since the cooler is mounted to the bottom of the condensor on the passenger side. My ashtray holds all of my switches that turn on the fans manually. I have a 40 amp breaker mounted on the drives side fender overhang 2/3rds down the fender. I also have a relay there that allows me to run my fog lights while the brights are on. Our cars offer great lighting with all the lights on. I take mine and find a wall and park my car at different distances from it and set my lighting. Laws prohibit the lights being too high but mine are awesome. It's like driving in daylight when they are all on. I use those silver star I think and they are expensive but very bright. I have a CS144 alternator that really puts out the juice and I am going to play with larger wire to the lights to see if that brightens things up even more. I will try and get pictures posted ASAP.

Dakota W.

It has been my personal experience that antifreeze heats up slower, and cools off faster than water, and runs a considerable amount lower temp wise as well.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Depends on what alcohol.

Methyl (wood) - 152
Ethyl (grain) - 172
Isopropyl - 177
Ethylene Glycol - 387

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Unless there is something wrong, your car would most likely be the only one on the planet...

Dakota W.

Then please tell me why 99% of all race car drivers use an additive to help the water cool better.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They use a additive. Not antifreeze.
The additive is supposed to help water bond to hotspots in the block/heads to help maximize cooling of those parts and also is a lube for the seals/ rust inhibitor.
A little bit of antifreeze is needed in a street car for the same reasons, rust inhibitor/ seal lube and of course to keep things from freezing.
100% water is still the best cooling but its not good for the seals or rust prevention.

If you live in really hot places, use 15-20% coolant but make sure you up it for colder areas so you don't break your block or heads.

All I'm trying to point out is, more anti-freeze in the summer doesn't help cooling, it can hurt it.

abray1

On an episode of gears or one of the car shows last year they had a bone stock mid 70s ford truck and they did an experiment with the cooling by using water and antifreeze like all cars do and then they added two bottles of water wetter or purple ice; it was purple ice I remember now and it was good for about a 15 to 20 degree temp drop. It has something to do with water cohesion. I made a C in chemistry so I don't remember the chemical process of how it works exactly but I know it works. Water wetter works just as well.

Kdizzo977

Only thing i gotta say is the Air Dam i put on off a 89 camaro it cools my temps below 220 in 90 degree heat

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Put my air dam on today....
It wasn't sunny, but while driving, temps never went over 191 while driving...(I have a tunable EBL P4, 180 thermostat), where before, temps would get to 220... At the drive thru, 199...
and more noticeably, the trans tunnel didn't get hot like it usually does.. I'll have to try another test with the FL heat... I have a formula hood with open vent, so I'm sure that is helping too (seal still on back of hood / firewall)...