1986TransAm305

Hey all, just got a Champion CC-951 3-core radiator /w 16" fan and shroud. Unfortunately Ledfoot Racing, whom I ordered from, gave me the shroud for the twin 12" fans, but Geoff is sending me the correct one with postage to send the incorrect one back. He had convinced me that the single 16" will work better on my vehicle than the twin 12", and I guess we'll see if that's true.

For now, my question is this. The frame that holds the bottom of the radiator and somewhat resembles a crossmember got bent when I was a little too enthusiastic hitting a speed bump at a weird angle. My condenser is fine, but the frame is bent up a couple of inches (and bent the stock radiator, contributing to my decision to get the awesome Champion). Is it easy/feasible to take this frame off and replace it, or could I just take a BFH to it and bang it back down? I have no suspension issues and no bolts or hardware were torn in the unfortunate incident, so I'm confident this little bend is the extent of the damage. Mainly just wondering if anyone else has had to do this, as I'm worried I won't be able to bend it back down due to the relative thickness of the frame.

In the meantime I'll let you guys know how this Champion goes into my 305-equipped 1986 T/A!

89Kicker_IROC-Z

Let us know how the installation goes, mine took quite a bit of work to get it to fit.

My transmission line running into the champion is either the wrong thread or didn't seat properly, because when I wound up the car to see what she would do it spit trans fluid out of the connection and right into my radiator fans...which in turn threw trans coolant all over my engine bay. Also the stock plastic top peice that holds the radiator snug wont fit without modding.

1986TransAm305

Well after taking said BFH to the radiator support and getting it (more or less) straight, I clipped the rubber bits that hold the condenser and radiator in half, putting the half for the condenser back in. I also put sections of bicycle tube where the old bits were as advised by a lot of users on here. I test-fit the CC-951, and after one or two more sessions with the hammer, it fit in almost better than stock! The top plastic mount fit exactly flush with its screw holes, and the only problem was that the radiator leant at a very very slight angle, which moved the upper radiator hose's position a little close to the A/C compressor clutch. Other than that, it was pretty painless. The transmission cooler lines screwed in without an adapter. (I suppose they were the metric thread, and my car, being an '86, also had metric fittings)

I went ahead and core-mounted the fan, for better or for worse, because I need to drive the car and cannot wait for the new shroud to arrive. I should have the new Hayden adjustable fan switch installed tomorrow, and when I do, I'll see how it runs. So far though, I've been remarkably pleased with the fit and quality of the radiator.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, did you read the other threads on this radiator? General consensus is its junk. You may want to take a look.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

never had any probs with cooling.. and the car is a bit better then stock..lol

the Champion 3 Core worked for My blown 427 100% there not junk..

sorta like wanting to know if the guys with the over heat probs have the right water pumps.. and good coolent/ and parts...
iv run 13.1 CR on the street, in the past, with 110 octn fuel.. and never over heated.
just me

iv had hot rods in Las Vegas and in WA State.. the most they have ever seen is 190 deg

dont know if this matters or not..but,
i did see 200 deg a few times...turning 3000rpm at 115+ mph for 40 min on the Hyway...
but it's not steet driving.

peterc005

Interested to hear more about how you go.

I'm thinking of buying a 2 core Champion radiator for my L98 1988 Camaro.

I've got twin 12" fans and hope for a no hassle fit.

pearl_iroc

I ve got the 2 core and the fit was pretty good, and it keeps my LSX cool, no problems, even had a port to fit the steam line in.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

Which hayden part number did you go with, this works with efi?

1986TransAm305

Hayden #3647, adjustable with the radiator probe. I could have gone with #3651 with the sensor that screws into the stock position (on mine, right under the throttle body on the intake manifold), but I've been told that a radiator probe will give you a vastly more accurate reading. They will both work with EFI or carb'd engines because they essentially replace the stock coolant sensor/fan control system. As a matter of fact, I removed all of the wiring and the relay for my stock system to clean up the bay a little after wiring it up today (none of it worked anyway). Felt a little sketchy pushing the probe through the radiator, but I put it at the very edge near the coolant inlet (where the instructions say to put it) and it went through and stayed snug.

And 87350IROC, I read a good number of threads about this specific model, and the huge thread about Champions in general, and quite frankly it seemed the consensus was the opposite. Although quite a few people had to get creative with their installs, most people seemed pretty satisfied with their Champions. In any case, it should be an improvement over the cheap Murray-brand "OEM replacement" one currently in the vehicle, and my 305 is VERY mildly modded, probably pushing less than 20-30BHP over stock. I guess we'll see once I have it all filled up and ready to run.

peterc005

I'm looking for a new aluminium 2 core radiator and appreciate the Champion recommendations. The consensus does seem to be they are a good option.

1986TransAm305

So I finished the wiring for the Hayden fan controller and filled the radiator back up with the 40/60 mix I usually use, and the car ran great! My car usually got up to 235-240 even with the fan on, but with the new 3-core and the included 16" puller, my car never got about 200! On the highway it was even cooler around 185-190. I cannot be more pleased with the Champion.

However, once I got the car back into the driveway, I noticed an ridiculous amount of trans oil was leaking from the bottom transmission cooler port. I tried tightening it and starting back up but it still leaked, BAD. I'm afraid to tighten any more and risk stripping the aluminum threads.

Anyone had this problem and have a solution? I tried some JB Weld Quick Steel around the entire fitting but it didn't work at all. Help!

89Kicker_IROC-Z

Did you not read my original reply to your post about this radiator?
I said trans fluid squirted from the fitting all into my radiator fans and spit fluid all over my engine bay. No one wants to believe me but this radiator IS NOT a direct bolt in, nothing matches up. If you figure it out let me know!

1986TransAm305

I did, and the thing is, this was completely bolt-in. Everything did match up. The top fitting works perfectly. I think I may have just stripped the bottom one or had some problem getting it it or something. I'm gonna tackle it tomorrow.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Really? Did you read the last few pages of this one?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...ys-want-7.html

Those pictures don't look good to me. But I don't have first hand experience. I can run my car all day at the track, 30 minute sprints, with an Autozone stock replacement and have no issues. I really don't see the need to risk it when the OEM works fine.

1986TransAm305

I can't say anything about the long term, as I've only had mine in for a couple days, but my own numbers don't lie to me. I had a 30-40 degree difference in cooling performance with this new setup, and it went it like a breeze. Of course, my experience is anecdotal and might not represent everyone else's, but it's working well so far.

Except for the transmission cooler fitting! Do ours have o-rings in either the fitting or the bung on the radiator? Are our fittings flanged so you just gotta keep tightening them?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

10 good installs and working.. 2 not so good installs and not working so good....

have to ask.. if the installs are done with all the right parts
(ya just have to).

what i can fig out is why nobody have pointed out. the Fake black plug
that is installed..and not so good to start with.. i just removed mine.
tapped it for a plug and bolted in the Plug.

buffed the thing out and it also looks fantastic! and i use the stock 2 fans that came on my 92 Z 28. THEY HAVE A BIGGER RELY. and set to come on and go off at the same time... when parked on a fri nite. you can stand 40 feet at the rear of the car when the fans are still running. (car is off fans running) and you can feel the Hair Dryer like breez on your legs..mine moves alot of air..always have.

1986TransAm305

Turns out the fitting is stripped.

Well, after a lot of impotent rage and hard thinking today, I'm going to try a few solutions. I'm going to try and find a brass 3/8" male to 5/16" female inverted flare fitting, and try to tap the fitting in the radiator out to 3/8". This time I'll be REAL CAREFUL putting in the brass fitting and make sure not to strip it. With any luck, that will go in and then I can just screw the original male 5/16" trans line fitting into the new brass one.

If all else fails I'm gonna go with an external cooler, for better or for worse. i live in mild weather so I don't expect under/overheating.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

I'm in a similar dilemma but I am running the internal trans cooler into an external bolted on the outside of the radiator for more cooling. The B&M external is fine, but the fitting on the Champion seems to be the culprit.

I originally did this style install on my OEM radiator back in 03 after I had my trans shift kit installed. I figured it would need more cooling with the more violent shifting so I mounted the B&M in-line with the stock.

1986TransAm305

Well I finally finished the job today. As much as I tried, I couldn't tap out the transmission cooler fitting because it was too shallow (I think this was the problem with the bung in the first place- they made it too shallow and our transmission line fittings don't go in all the way). So I ended up just skipping the in-radiator cooler and running hoses to an external cooler mounted an inch in front of the condenser. Not what I wanted, but at least it doesn't leak. However, since I put in the radiator, I have a mystery leak that's dripping on the Y-pipe causing smoke. I guess I'll be tackling that tomorrow...

89Kicker_IROC-Z

I'm probably going to have the same issue the with the fitting then, great.

IROCtheRoad

I had the same problem with the lower transmission fitting. Even with teflon thread it was leaking and eventually i stripped the aluminum. My solution was to just run my external trans cooler.

I haven't had a chance to try check the tranny temps while driving though.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

Mine is also leaking now slowly just sitting in the garage.
Is this something that can be fixed by maybe running a hose barb into the fitting and cut the stock line and run a piece of rubber tubing between the two?

Any advice on what should be done other than simply bypassing the internal cooler? Theres gotta be a solution to fix the issue, looks like a lot of people are having the same dilemma.

cmccomb

I had same problem with the first champion three row rad transmission cooler lines not fitting like they should, i ended up finding some of the brass fittings like are on the transmission case that the hard line connects to and then used a drill bit to add a small chamfer to fitting.
Then this spring i changed my engine setup to 600 hp and ordered a 4 row champion rad and this one had the correct threads on the transmission cooler.
as you can see in the pictures the thread size is slightly larger on the fittings that go into the transmission than that of the line.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

So should I send back the 3 core and upgrade to a 4 core that has the correct fitting? Or go to a speed shop and have them jerry rig something in the fittings place? What do you think...I'm at the point I want to throw this radiator away.
OP claims everything fitted for him but I know through experience this radiator was not built to be a direct bolt in. Nothing fits whatsoever.

cmccomb

are you keeping air conditioning, i am sure 4 core will not fit with ac condenser in place.
looks like options are to not use it and install extra trans cooler, or could see if rad shop could weld on another fitting or re tap threads to bigger size and install reducer fitting.
I have no ac on mine so all i had to do was get new bottom rad mount rubbers and fab a new top mount and side filler plates and the four core fit no problems.

cmccomb

Almost forgot i think they changed the thread size and count on the transmission line fittings from sae to metric at some point in production year changes, not sure what year it changed in, mine is a 1985 and fitting size was 5/16 inverted flare 1/2 -20 tpi thead size, make sure and check if fittings are sae or metric.

stitchop

I am Very pleased with my Champion 3 core and dual fans.

My Firebird has overheated since the day it was new. When the factory warranty was still good, pontiac dealer(s) fixed it several times, but I could never tell any difference. Any time spent idling was always time spent watching the temp gauge.
Anytime driving under 20 mph, the temp would slowly creep to 220 and the fan would kick on, slowing the climp, but the temp would still slowly creep higher and higher. The only thing for me to do was shut it down, or find a highway to gets some air flow.
I tried dual fans. They helped, in that it just took longer to get too hot.

So, I got a Champion 3 core.

The install was pretty easy, much easier than I was expecting after reading the crying and pouting about how hard it was on this forum. I used 1/8th inch rubber padding under the radiator after removing the thicker padding. Other than that, it fit right in, only a little more snug then the factory one. Simple. Actually, took no longer to put in than it would have to put the old one back in.

I don't understand all the complaints about how it fits. Other than the rubber pieces, it really just fell into place. The hoses slid right on, the tranny lines screwed right in and tightened just as they should have, no leaks, no rattles no problems.

Now the temp will not go above 220. I let it sit for an hour, in the Arkansas heat (106 that day), on black asphalt, no wind. Takes a loooooong time to get to fan on temp. When the fans do kick on, you can see the guage needle move down. Takes less than 20 seconds for the temp to get below 200. Then, about 5 minutes for it to kick the fans back on.

Awesome!
For the first time since I bought my Bird, I drove it around town without worring about the temps. It is so nice.
I would recommend this radiator to anyone.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

I took my A/C out in 03 and heat out a couple years ago. I might just remove the entire radiator and take it to a local speed shop and have them look at the threads, something ain't right. I liked the idea of running both the internal an external at the same time.

As for the few people chiming in on how it fits great, a lot of people aren't having such a good result.

Ron U.S.M.C.

89 Kicker_IROC-Z,
Did you have any problems with those nylon push through mounting rods because I do not trust them ?

89Kicker_IROC-Z

No they work great. Had them on the stock radiator when I added the external cooler in 2002. Just put them on the new champion radiator this time with the tranny cooler pushed out a bit.

1986TransAm305

Well I just put 1400 miles on my new setup with the external transmission cooler, from San Francisco to Phoenix. No problems to report. The engine got a little hot, creeping between 220 and 240 with A/C on in Phoenix (as expected) but no overheating. Transmission was fine too, no burnt fluid or anything when I got back.

It's not the solution I wanted originally, but it gave me an excuse to put a decent external cooler on my T/A! The radiator itself is great, keeps my perpetually overheating car in the right temp.

89Kicker_IROC-Z

I wish we just had a solution to getting the internal cooler to work in tandem with aftermarket external coolers. I really dont want to bypass the internal cooler because of a screwed up fitting on the champ.

peterc005

I want to buy a 3 core Champion radiator and have a couple of quick questions thanks.

1) the stock radiator (1998 IROC L98) is 36mm thick, does anyone know the Champion thickness?

2) Removing the old radiator I need a 1/2" spanner, which is unusual because most of the car is metric. I've seen the other posts above about problems with the transmission cooling lines, do I need to order anything special?

3) The aircon condenser looks a bit rough, is it worth replacing this and any recommendations for a brand?

Cheers

1986TransAm305

1. I'm not sure the Champion thickness, but it was so close to the stock that I had no problems just slapping the original radiator bracket back on and getting a tight fit.

2. Not really. You're right about the trans lines though- they're SAE inverted flare, so make sure you have a set of SAE wrenches. And be very, VERY delicate with the threads on the radiator. They're aluminum and will strip if you even LOOK at them wrong.

3. Is it running rough? If you're going to replace it, try to get a Delco replacement part. I've heard bad things about many aftermarket brands like Murray and 4 Seasons.

peterc005

Thanks for the reply.

I'll order a 3 core CC951 off Ebay.

One last question. Does the CC951 have a additional heater pipe outlet (not mentioned on the web site)?

91copo

I bought this radiator (CC951) less then a week ago and I'm having very good luck with it. The trans fittings were the same as my car, before I got it I read this page, so I was skeptical at first, I did have to take a razor blade to the rubber mounts but then it fitted like a champ(haha). Yes it does have the additional outlet. I didn't need this so I tapped the inside of it to 3/8" and plugged it. Be careful not to hit the trans cooler on the inside. Don't ask why I know this, but it is easier to tap it if it's out of the car.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Unless you're planning on lots of wintertime driving in below freezing temps, I don't see why you wouldn't just go with an external only cooler and forget about the radiator/transmission fittings.

I live in a hot climate and bypassed the radiator with an external cooler. Works great. And keeps the transmission cool when the radiator is maxed out during stop and go traffic.

I had the radiator at 235° while the transmission cooler was only at 185° a few summers back. Why would I want to run cool transmission fluid through a hot radiator?

With the Long Tru-Cool LPD transmission cooler, it keeps everything at just the right temp. And it's good for the cold season as it has a built in bypass (LPD) on the cooler itself. The cooler is a rather large unit (11x12").

Part # 4490
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/tru-cool-lpd.html