Hey all -

I went to a show a few weeks ago about 160 miles away. The car ran fine all the way up there, and it stayed around 200-210 on the highway. All was good till I got stuck in a traffic jam. It was stop-and-go for about 45 minutes, never going over 5 mph. My temp slowly crept up to over 230 plus degrees and I was really worried I was going to overheat big time. I ended up pulling over at a gas station and waiting over an hour for it to cool down...my mechanical temp gage read 245, and soon as I shut it down, it boiled over into my expansion tank and almost overfilled it.

The weather outside was in the upper 80's, and I'm guessing in the 90's when I was stopped on the road. All I have is a big single fan with no shroud, so I've been considering going to a dual setup with two big 11" or bigger fans...with a shroud.

Whats a good fan unit for a 31x19 Griffin radiator? I am running a UMI wonder bar, and I've heard of others having issues with their fan shroud hitting that or the steering box.

The core size is 26x19...should I get something around 26x16 or 18" just to be sure I won't have any clearance issues?? I'm looking for a high cfm output since I'm running a blower...tried searching but a lot of mixed stuff and fan models they don't make any more....

EDIT: BTW, my fan switch is a 195 on, 185 off and I'm running a 185 T-stat, so the fan is almost always on...

 

Can try ls1 fbody fans. Built in shroud, and ls1 rad is i believe same size as yours so it should fit. It will keep my turbo car under 220 on the 80-90 deg days with a small 27x15 radiator.... With stock tpi fans no shroud it would go over and i'd have to shut down

 

That's what I run on my car and I have the 31x19 Griffin radiator as well. I use a controller from Flexalite that uses a probe that I have stuck in near the top radiator hose. I had to do a little trimming around the steering box at the bottom corner and I made some aluminum brackets to hold the fans in place at the top, the bottom is going no where. I even took some rubber hose that I split and wrapped it around the entire shroud that helps seal it to the core of the radiator. I can sit in traffic on a 90* plus day and the fans will keep the car at 190* so I call that good. I can set the temp that the fans kick in and it will not hit fans with full power, it will come on low and increase as the temp increases to full power.

 

Well, I ended up just ordering a 26x18 Derale part# 16927 dual fan setup...they claim 4000 cfm, but it depends on how it's measured. Looks like a good unit, just need to see if it fits OK..

 

How much room do you have between the radiator core and your engine accessories? In other words, how much of a mounting depth do you have for an electric fan?

 

Just a rough measurement, it seems like I have about 4" max.

Just got the Derale fan module in the mail yesterday! Not a moment too soon either. It was kinda hot yesterday, so of course I got stuck in stop-and-go traffic for about 25 minutes. My temp held at 220 for about the first ten minutes, then it slowly crept up to 230 degrees...again.

Anyways, this fan module looks pretty sweet...just hope it'll fit now. It's supposedly 3.5" thick.

It came with wiring and two relays. I plan to use my existing temp switch in the block which is a 195 on, 185 off (I think), and either hook up the second fan with a manual switch...but I'm considering getting one of those temp probes that go into the core and set it around 210 degrees and off at about 190 degrees. Here's a pic...curious if anyone else is running one of these things:

 

I just know my overheating problem with stock tpi fans was because they were not able to suck air thru my thick rad. I couldnt really get them close to the rad as i would like but no shroud had only alittle airflow comin thru the rad. The ls1 fans with shroud fit up close and i was able to really notice air coming thru the rad.

Those fans look like they can pull airflow but just make sure they are mouted close as possible to rad

 

Thanks Orr - According to the dimensions, the shroud itself is 2" deep, and 3.5" thick including the fans, so it should fit up pretty close.

I'm sure part of the issue is the current tune I have on the thing right now...I increased boost from 3 psi to 6.5 psi...so I have the carb jetted up on the rich side, and running conservative on the advance curve. Once I get it on the dyno, I can get it dialed in much closer. But it's too close on the ragged edge anyway as far as my cooling setup goes either way...

 

So install already!!!...
JK...JK...
Hope it works better than expected!!...

 

I know right?? Work keeps getting in the way...
I'll post pics of the before and after setup

 

It should work well for you. I'm using a 31x19 Griffin with 1.25" tubes. I made my own from some aluminum sheet from Menards using my 12" permacool fans I had already. I bent all the edges and put some rubber hose on them to prevent metal to metal contact with the core. I also riveted all the corners with an additional L piece in it. Probably should have just riveted the upper mount too, but oh well I can handle that later.

I recessed the fans a little on mine because they would just be too far back. I swapped in some bolts instead of studs on the waterpump pulley too. It was an ugly hack but has worked fine with 0 issues. Overall I probably had $60 or so in the shroud and upper mount. It's not pretty but I didn't slap it together for a show car. I still need a new temp switch. My old one burnt right after I got the car or was already burnt... wiring and all. I never replaced it. I just wired up a manual control.

 

Been a while since I put my Griffin rad in, so I can't remember what the tube size is. I do remember trying to fit a bigger one in (3 core I think) and it was just too thick to fit in between the supports without a bunch of modification, so I sent it back for a 2 core...which is tight but it fits.

I never have or will, consider my Camaro as any kind of "Show" car....but I definately could have bought a OEM type unit from something else and adapted it cheaper than what this costs..

And when I see others do that, I think it's neat myself. Nothing wrong at all with that. As far as any cosmetic issues...you can make sure it's functional first, and it seems yours fits the bill...pretty it up later to make it look like it belongs there...not a biggie IMO....just takes time. I have enough stuff to do on my free time nowadays, so I opted to pay a few extra bucks for something I could drop in...well, I'll see if it drops in at least..lol

 

I figured I'd finish this thread by letting everyone finally know how the install went. IT WAS A NIGHTMARE!!

Do yourself a favor, and get your measurements off your radiator core itself if possible. I didn't have enough room myself to get accurate measurements, but in hindsight, I should have removed the thing and measured it.

Instead, I went by Griffin's website which shows the radiator core on my 31x19 as 26x19...so what the heck, I ordered my fans and shroud to be 26x18...perfect...right??

Well, the "26" part I found to be untrue...more like 25 5/8"...which made a huge difference since it would not mount flush to the core like it's supposed to..

So - I had to trim one side of the shroud...then the clearance between the shroud and upper/lower rad hose connections were REAL close...I JUST BARELY got the hoses on after what seemed like an hour of wrestling with them.

I'll fully admit, it's a "Universal" kit...but if I would have gotten... say - a 24x18 it would have been SO much easier to install. The kit comes with something like 15 1/4-20 bolts, teflon insert lock nuts and about 50 flat washers. Also had 4 angle brackets. About the only thing I could use out of their entire "mounting system" that would work was the bolts...I had to fabricate literally everything else to mount the thing to my rad. I must admit, this was one of the most frustrating things to put on my entire car...and I've done A LOT of mods to my car, so that's saying something.

I probably spent two 8 hour days getting everything together...way too long, I know. It included about 4 different trips to the local hardware store getting aluminum angle iron, cutting blades, nuts, bolts etc.

How do they work?...well AWESOME so far, and I only have the primary fan wired up. These fans do take a heck of an in-rush of current to get them going...my car was idling, and I heard it sputter due to the voltage drop to the ignition when the fan started. But once it did, it was the first time I'd ever seen the temp go down while it was idling. Having a shroud I think makes all the difference.

The zip-tied single electric fan with no real shroud that I had on the car before just didn't cover enough of the core and just couldn't pull enough air through. Now the ENTIRE core is shrouded. I'm either going to wire the second fan to an adjustable fan controller, or just manually switch it...still not decided. I doubt it'll ever need to run from what I've seen so far.

I'll take a few pics of the finished product and post up...

 

OK - Pics as promised:
Let me know what you think...good or bad!
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The plastic original plate on top holds nothing...just for looks:

 

GOOD! Ok Confuzed, you're not so "Confuzed" after all! You did a nice job with out having a lot of sheet metal equipment at your disposal. Sometimes 2 8hr days and a butt load of trips across town is what it takes. I appreciate your tenacity! Derale's are an excellent choice as well. I sell pairs and singles of them regularly on custom cooling jobs we do at my shop. I fab the shrouds and use the high out put versions (18217's, 18214's, 18212's) as they move a lot of air for the money, the motors are heavy built, mounting is simple and the quality is good. FYI, if any one out there is trying to update fans themselves like Confuzed here, a few tid bits of advice. Take advertised cfm's with a grain of salt and look harder at the amp draw. This will tell you much more about the fans than bs cfm postings. I have this on high authority from the old feller at Walker radiator who was one of the 1st to bring electric fans to the trade shows. He said when they first began to display their fans for sale they had a cfm rating posted that was higher than their competitors and the next day at the trade show, their competitors advertised cfm rating mysteriously went up at their display booth! Hmmm. He said this continued to go on year after year until some of the advertised cfm's became nothing short of absurd. Basically, if a fan costing $140 that has an amp draw of say 23amps and advertised cfm of 2400, there is no way that a $79 unit using 11 amps is pulling 2900 cfm. It's just not possible at 13 volts to do this. I strongly urge anyone trying to upgrade their fans for high horsepower to consider the amp draw and the coverage 1st, and then consider what ever cfm numbers they claim.
Also, anyone trying to use high amp draw fans on 3rd gens that originally had dual fans and relays take heed. There is only one undersized power wire feeding power to both relays. This should be cut apart at the splice in the harness near the relays and have at least a 12 ga. ( preferably 10 ga. ) wire feeding power to each relay. The single wire simply can't handle the amp load of 2 hd fans and in time will cause problems. The wiring from the relay to the pair of fans is, however, adequate as are the factory relays.
Lastly, if you are running 2 aftermarket hd fans, a hd fuel pump, stereo, computer, etc... and putting a lot of load on the system, consider a better alternator. If you have a high horsepower application depending on fuel pump pressure, computer and cooling fans not running short of juice and starving your car for fuel, air or information which could be catastrophic for the engine ( and God forbid, your stereo runs low on juice! LOL ) you may want to upgrade. I found out recently that "high out put" alternators are in the same boat as bs cfm ratings. The claims out there can also be nothing short of absurd! After much research on this, I found one company, Nation's Starter & Alternator out of Cape Girardeau, MO, that knew what was up. They provided me with an alternator that has the ability to put out 140 amps at an idle with a stock diameter crank & alternator pulley. This unit is expensive ($400) but well worth the money and is a nice looking unit and it fit the bracket perfectly. Adam Nation explained to me the difference between his product and most of the other "high out put" alternators and there is a difference. Quality cost money boys, get used to it! Are there other people out there doing a good job and giving you what your paying for? I'm sure that there are, but, there's also a lot of over advertised crap on the internet you have to wade through to get to the bottom when your trying to spend wisely to get what you want, so take the time. Is it always going to just drop into place? May be not but that doesn't always mean it's bad. Take the time and put in the leg work like "Confuzed" here did and you generally get better results and spend less money in the long run doing it right the 1st time. If you can't afford to put out the money, wait until you can. If it's a stocker low hp application, then a lot of the cheaper stuff may work, but if your pushing it with trubos, nitrous or a blower motor like "Confuzed" then ask some questions, put in the time ( "two 8 hour days" ) and do it right. It will always pay off in the long run. I'll bet the Griffin radiator didn't just fall into the radiator support on this car either and he probably didn't pay $119 for it with free freight and he probably didn't get a free ball cap and a t-shirt and a $25 coupon for his next purchase either but the proof is in the pudding! Good stuff cost's money, there's just no way around it. ( ok, maybe you can get a deal on some good used stuff but originally, it probably cost somebody some money, LOL ) Awesome job on the fan work Confuzed!

 

topradman -

Hey, thanks for the compliment on my install! I was scratching my head for a while trying to figure out how the heck I was going to adapt the thing to my car. It worked out in the end though. I had the car out on a 89 degree day, and with only the one fan it stayed below 200 degrees....not too bad.

I've yet to still see how it holds up when I get stuck in heavy traffic idling for extended periods....but I'm not going out of my way to find a traffic jam to see...lol
You're right on with that! The biggest issue is there is no standardized way these manufacturers rate total fan CFM....some rate their fans straight from the fans outlet, while others rate CFM's after it passes through a typical radiator core.

Of course, measuring the CFM's after it passes through a typical radiator core tells me more about how the fan really performs, but only a few companies do it this way, and when they do - they don't tell you whether they tested the thing on a single row core, 2 row core or whatever. -That's why I personally prefer to see the CFM rating straight from the fans outlet because there's too many variables in radiators.

You make a good point too about wire sizing for the fan's amp draw. All the sizing is dependent upon the in-rush amp draw to get the fan going....once it's up to speed, the amp draw ramps down considerably. You just gotta have the correct gage wire, the right amp rated relay and fuse or else it's going to pop something when they try to start and strand you on the side of the road.

I normally learn this stuff the hard way by being THAT GUY on the side of the road sometimes...

 

That's why I went with the 4th gen Camaro setup, cost me 75.00 has the built in shroud that I got to fit snuggly against my Griffin radiator and I used oem wire pigtails and wired it to the Flexalite controller, stays at 185* all day long and it really pulls the air through the core which is very important. I probably have a total of 200.00 in my fan setup and a little modifying to make it fit snuggly.