formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

I don't know if any of you have heard of this yet but Haltech has a new replacement for the E6GMX and I don't understand why I never hear about any Thirdgens with them. The installation only requires swapping ONE PIN in the factory ECM harness and wire in a MAP sensor under hood. This is as close to plug and play as you could possibly get.


Some of you may remember a few years back a thread on here about converting your 165 ECM into a MAP system by using an Austrailian code (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...f-165-map.html). The Haltech line of GM computers are built as a plug and play for the 808 code.

The computer takes it's main input from the factory 165 harness (right side in picture). All you have to do is move pin B12 to C11, then cut into the MAF harness and use the signal wire for your MAP signal ground for ground, and tap into the TPS +5v lead for the MAP voltage input. It also has a built in MAP / Baro sensor, and auxiliary inputs and outputs(opposite side of ecm) that allows you to add sensors, such as widebands, egt probes, etc.

I'll be installing the ECM this week and giving regular updates. If you have any questions I'll help as best I can.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Well I got around to installing the computer last night..

I repined the MAF signal (green wire) from B12 to C11 and plugged in the Haltech.

Next I went under hood and cut the MAF plug off of the signal (green) and ground (black) wires and pulled them back through the harness to roughly the middle of the engine.

Then I traced back the +5v line from the TPS sensor and pulled it out of the main loom where I spliced in the +5v lead for the MAP sensor

Finally I hooked up the signal and ground lined from the factory MAF to my new MAP plug. loaded in a base map and the car started up almost instantly.

Unfortunately by the time I got her started it was too late to do anything else but today I plan to install the wideband controller and start to tune her in a little bit.

I will keep you guys up to date with my progress.


P.S. I have pictures to post but my card reader is being a jerk so I'll post them A.S.A.P.

AL

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

What is the benefit of this Haltech ECM? Just the "It also has a built in MAP / Baro sensor, and auxiliary inputs and outputs(opposite side of ecm) that allows you to add sensors, such as widebands, egt probes, etc." that you mentioned? Or is it easier/better to tune?

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

It's a full stand alone system comparable to FAST or DFI anything like that.. It's leaps and bounds more capable than a factory MAF cars computer..

From what I have been led to believe it's based upon their Sport series computers which you can find out all about here

http://www.haltech.com.au/index.php/...num-sport-1000

More or less what sold me on it was the versatility and how easy it installs. I could put this in a MAF car in under 2 hours and it really has more features than I could ever need.

If you can find me another computer solution that will plug into my factory engine harness and provides me with fully user definable tables capability to run up to a 10 bar map sensor (not that any thirdgen I could think of would ever need it) and closed loop wideband I'll eat my hat.. so to speak.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Ok so I just found out a few things I thought we're worth sharing...

The Sport GM computer is as I said before very similar to the Sport 1000 with exception of it being set up to run batch fire only / distributor only.

More or less all the things you wouldn't typically use on an application similar to ours have been removed from it (cam timing control staged injectors etc.).

I hope that clears up some confusion as to what the unit does / doesn't do..

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Well I installed my wideband controller on Friday... I was actually able to plug it straight into the factory harness after reconfiguring a few settings in the ecu... I'll post an install note with pictures when I find where I put my camera cable...

I was able to start tuning a little bit late on Friday and got it to drive around and idle fairly well but it still dies on occasion... I hope to have the chance to get back to it before the weekend.

WASyL

Over 1900 USD with WB, way to much, better to get MSII/III or EBL for half the price

best regards

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

You gotta pay to play buddy..

MS 3 is 16x 16 tables Haltech does 32x32..

MS3 would require me to hack up my factory harness and take a solid day or 2 of work to install the Haltech goes in in about 45 minutes and the car can be returned to stock just as quickly.

MS will do a 4 bar map Haltech accepts up to a 10 bar map.

Haltech also has plug and play outputs for Racepack digital dash..

This is NOT a CHEAP tuning solution I feel it is the best for my application so take your naysaying elsewhere.

xch3no2

I guess I'm not the guy that said MS sucks & EBL was right 4 you,

Hate now, hate here, hate yourself...really, just return the haltech POS, and buy an EBL.

Otherwise update other hapless folk on your progress with that wannabe EBL...

WASyL

half price for MS with TPI adaptor board for harness, You can change MAP up to any one you find etc. and 1 day of installing whole thing makes me want to save that amount of cash, and as for tables, well 16x16 is quite enought and with Extra code you ger 32x32

best regards

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

**** both you guys... Last I checked this was the DFI/ECM forum not the if it isn't Megasquirt or some other cheap solution it's junk forum.

Just because you don't like my choices doesn't mean I'm wrong for making them I'll spend my money any way I please. If you're not interested in what I'm doing stay out of my thread I don't need your ****.

I'm trying to relay my experiences with something different. God forbid I stray from the normal around here and try out an aftermarket product not sanctioned by the "thirdgen elite".

I've taken a ton from this forum over the years and when I try to share something I did with my car I get **** on because there is a cheaper option? You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

How about I tell both of you to drive your cars off of a cliff because I don't like the way you put it together? This is supposed to be a friendly community where people share ideas and experiences for a greater good a wealth of knowledge if you will not a bunch of naysaying dick baggery.SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO ADD DON'T BOTHER POSTING.


Best regards
AL

THUB

I'm new on the forum here,a friend of formula350SD I'm not a 3rd gen guy(see my "drives"), but I do have firsthand experience with the haltech system and with MS1 ( I know things have progressed from there but that's what I personally have worked with)
This got long so there's cliff notes down there somewhere.
The haltech systems installation was easy. Not easy compared with megasquirt, just EASY. I could have let my little sister do it. By comparison, installing an already assembled magasuirt system took an afternoon of mild swearing. On top of that, megasquirt themselves say it'll take 8-10 hours to assemble a V3 box. How much is your time worth? Also, how much is knowing without a doubt that your **** is not going to fall apart because you don't solder as a profession? Knowing that it was made by the first company to ever put out a standalone engine controller. A company that is still making some of the most advanced systems out there.
Beyond the assembly and installation, The haltech software is miles ahead. Even the beta I used made MS software look cheap and rudimentary. (I DL'ed the MS3 software and played with it for a little while) It's a little thing, but it makes a big difference in functionality when you're tuning. The live gauges work better, the system is more stable. It has better refined drivability tables that make driving the car somewhere other than the track easier and more fun, which is kind of the idea. It's just better in every measurable way.
All of that makes it worth the money, but when you add in the ability to run gauges and inputs and outputs it sweetens the deal a little more. It also uses a USB setup to begin with, rather than making you use a DB9 connector/ adaptor, The adaptors sometimes work fine, sometimes not. that sometimes not is absolutely infuriating. Being that DB9 isn't used for any modern add-ons, your laptop probably wont have the plug, forcing an adaptor, and probably a lot of aggravation, on you. Additionally, USB is much MUCH faster data-wise, allowing more channels to log faster, which is a huge help when you're logging a fast-revving high power car.
The real kicker, though is the live tuning. I didn't see this as an option on MS3 and that's a big deal. Not having to stop and reflash some new settings saves a ton of time getting things dialed in. I can't say enough about how valuable this is, having dealt with reflashing my Evo about a billion times now.
It's expensive. but as Al said, you gotta pay to play. If you want to stay maf (for some odd reason), it's 1 wire changed in the harness plug. He switched the wire, plugged it in and the car started. First try. No swearing.
This got long fast. Sorry.
Cliff notes- Don't gotta assemble it, Don't gotta splice wires, Don't gotta worry about making the ignition play nice, Don't gotta mess with outdated tech on the laptop side (DB9 plugs FTL)
AND MOTHER EFFING LIVE TUNING!! It's more money. Definitely. But it's better. So much so that it's worth it and more. I'm all for the cheap way if it's equal or better but haltech really is the best.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Dude, I think you're missing the point... I'd think that ANY of us would rather spend a few more hours building and setting up the MSII (which can be used in a MAF application, BTW) for one third the price of the Haltech than waste the money on something that appears to be more of a headache. Didn't say it's junk, but it's definitely NOT worth the money for most of us swapping to aftermarket ECMs.

Oh, and can the Haltech tune its own fuel tables? I didn't think so... MSII can if you use either MAP-only or MAF/MAP (but not MAF alone). Tell me, how many older cars do you see a Haltech on? Bet it's nowhere near as many as the MegaSquirt. And, if something goes bad inside the ECM (which happens a lot), how much is it going to cost you to replace it? MegaSquirt can be fixed... FOR CHEAP. Plus, MegaSquirt is DIRECT plug-and-play with the GM TPI and TBI adaptors, and can fit in a factory ECM case with the adaptor and look like a factory ECM for those smog ***** out there. No repinning to use different airflow sensors (may need to add a wire to the harness or borrow one not being used, but it's the same with any aftermarket ECM). I'll take the DB9 over the USB anyways since I'm sure that a lot of us have older PCs sitting around collecting dust (I have 3). And the TunerStudio interface is a lot more user-friendly than TunerPro, from firsthand experience. I know next to nothing about tuning, but I could figure out Studio in 5 minutes whereas I've played with TunerPro for hours and still don't get it...

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Maverick I think you're missing the point there are plenty of other threads about how great megasquirt is this thread isn't about megasquirt it's supposed to be about the sport GM and what it does and how it worked for me instead it's degenerated into the "thirdgen elite" telling me I spent too much money.

Obviously not everyone on the forum would rather buy a megasquirt I certainly didn't. Are you going to tell everyone who runs a FAST Bigstuff or Motec system that they spent too much money?

This is typical stupid internet crap these forums are supposed to be for sharing of information which I was trying to do in a mature fashion and instead of being supported in doing so all I've gotten is static and people telling me how to build MY car.

I'm not an ace tuner by any means but in less than 5 hours Thub and I managed to take the car from barely running to running better than it ever has I'm happy with my purchase and don't give a damn what any of you think. I've made my decision and thought I would share why. Apparently nobody cares because it's not the same decision they made, and that's nothing short of sad.

Theres more than one way to build a fast car the same as there are many different ways to drive from Chicago to LA. Some cars may have been cheaper and some routes between 2 cities may be faster but they accomplish the same thing do they not?

I'm presenting another option here. Weather you thinks it's a good one or not isn't the point.

Saar

if y'all don't get back on topic, i see this thread getting closed soon....

1900 is a lot to drop on an ECM, especially when there are competing products that cost far less(or even nothing, if you can gut through some 68HC11 code ) to have 95% of it's capabilities. for a long time, i sought out aftermarket ECMs, but then i finally started playing with GM code, and what do you know, i now have 49(yes, 49) X 17 VE and main spark tables, and i have some ridiculous stuff planned for the future as well, all without spending a penny on aftermarket hardware. we all have different things we're willing to sacrifice to get what we want.

so, now that the air is cleared, formula350sd, please continue with the original topic.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

I agree it's absolutely amazing what factory computers can do... Even a 730 with super AUJP code is more ecm than most anything could ever need..

But when you buy an aftermarket system you're not paying for just hardware you're paying for software and technical support as well. The help menu alone in the Haltech ECU manager software is worth a few of my dollars.

And honestly I don't know where that $1900 figure came from.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Well It's been a few days between updates (been busy at work and whatnots) and I've heard that MSRP for the Sport GM should be in the $1400 range.

I've also come to suspect that TBI harnesses use the same ECM connectors as MAF cars if this is true a simple repin would install this into a TBI car. If anyone could confirm or deny this I would be very grateful.

Thanks
AL

IROC406

Thank you for this post Formula, I have been scouting the website for plug & play options and I now have three to debate on, Moates, EBL, and Haltech.

BY any chance are you still running it and how has is been if you are?

CuriousPrimate

Formula I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to say I think what you did was awesome.

If everybody treds the same path how can we find new or better ways?

I wish you the best with your car and gratz on having the ***** to give something new a try.

Never mind the fuddy duddys on here.

Yes I have an EBL, yes I think what you did was awesome.

Your post was valuable information and I am greatful.

peterc005

@formula350sd - any update on how your Haltech Sport GM ECU went?

From what I've read, I can use my stock MAF or go to MAP?

I'm thinking of buying the same unit.

IROC406

I have been wondering the same thing formula350sd


I ended up going with the EBL due to cost. It's been great for me so far.

peterc005

Looked at the EBL, but prefer the Haltech unit because it is a plug-in replacement instead of an add-on to the existing ECU.

Also like the self-learning, 32bit processor and tuning software.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

sorry I'm so late to the party.

install went well. A friend and I had the Car tuned in enough to drive after about 6 hours cruising carefully.

I lost a rocker stud at the drag strip shortly there after and the car has been laid up for a few years going through An overhaul.

I got it back running this year but haven't been able to get it tuned in on the new setup.

overall I couldn't be happier with haltech. It's a robust product with many great features.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Also I'd like to thank everyone for their kind words. The haters are always gonna hate.

I'll try to be more active here if anyone wants to pick my brain.

peterc005

What were your impressions on the Haltech auto-learn tuning?

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Honestly I haven't played with it to much since the new firmware came out. So I haven't used any auto tune, And honestly wasn't aware it did that lmao.

I can say that I have changed the setup significantly without adjusting my map tables and it seems to do an ok job correcting itself off the wideband and the target afr table.

the little I've driven it that is.

peterc005

A few questions:

1) did Haltech supply a MAP sensor or did you have to buy one? Did it plug into the stock/MAF manifold OK ?, Was it the same as the factory MAP sensor?

2) Did you leave the MAF in place and unplugged?

3) Did yo have to setup the AFR tables at all or was this all done by the auto-learning?

4) Does the Haltech software provide logs for AFR, faults etc?

5) Hoes does the physical size of the factory 165 ECM compare to the Haltech unit?

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

1) The unit has an onboard MAP you can use or you can wire in any type. I chose a factory GM style map.

2) The MAF wires were repurposed in the installation for the MAP sensor.

3) The sport GM doesn't "Auto Learn" It has a target AFR table you can set up to provide closed loop control with up to 25% of swing up and down from the base VE table value for any given load cell

4) Haltech software has logging configurable to your liking.

5) It's similar in size but the factory ECU bracket didn't work out for me, your mileage may vary.

peterc005

Do you mean the MAP sensor is plugged into the MAF housing forward of the throttle body?

Would you have any pictures?

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

No I mean I cut the wires from the maf ran them back to a map that I siliconed to the side of my stealthram. The map gets signal from the back of the intake manifold

I'll get a picture tomorrow when I'm in the garage.

peterc005

My car is MAF, does this mean I'd have to drill a hole in the back of the plenum or lower intake manifold?

What differences with the way the car drives have you noticed since installing the Haltech ECU?

peterc005

@formula350sd - any more updates for us?