I have been a member here for many years under a different user name. I changed that when I sold all my engine blower and aftermarket efi controller over 10 years ago. I still have the car no engine up until now. I purchased a used engine with very low miles from a fellow f body enthusiest. Engine is a 355 10.1 compression with a super ram, trick flow 195 heads, LPE 219 cam etc. Car comes with a Lingenfelter chip in his factory ecu which he is giving along with the engine. His car was 5 speed, mine is auto. Thing is when i installed my after market ecu I ripped out all my harness, have a custom dash with white phantom gauges i wired in all my Self. Bought some kind of speed sensor to run the speedometor. My dilemma is this, what to do now to wire this up. I dont need emmisions, and i dont want that mess off wires in the bay. Im very capable with wiring and have the gm shop manual to help with this. I wanted to aquire a factory ecm, use that chip and aquire some kind of after market harness. My other option was a Fast XFI system, for now and upgrades later, I plan on another ATI in the future. Thing is the aftermarket ecu is neat compact and a minimum of wires. Can control tcc, fans and such plus I can tune myself. Im feeling this is overkill on this motor at this point, pus pricewise is alot upfront. If anyone here recommends getting a aftermarket tpi harness can you recommend a company? if that is the best way. One issue I hear alot is that you have to hook up to the vss so the computer get a reading. Is that true? Thank all

 

If you go aftermarket consider an Accel Thruster. I sell them for $x.xx with a wideband, base map and tuning help.

Good luck in your project.

Mark

{mod edit: please PM or email Mark/efiguy for pricing}

 

I prefer the GM (Delco) ECM for most applications. I have one running my Nissan L28 turbo, currently.

They are very tuneable, can be set up for a variety of applications. You can eliminate a lot of the wires in the harness, though, there really aren't that many more than an aftermarket system.

Take a look in the DIY PROM forum for some tuning insight. Though it may seem a bit of a steep learning curve, much of what you know about tuning the aftermarket ECUs can be applied to the Delco ECMs.

Yes, the Delco ECMs run much better with a VSS input.

 

Thanks for the responses. Thanks for that heads up on the Truster , never even knew about that system. I was fixed on Fast. Had an Electromotive Tec 2 on the car years back, but had it tuned for me. I was lost with that.

Six_shooter, Im very much leaning that way. Thing is with this motor comes a Lingenfelter chip already tuned for the motor. I would just have to wire it up and such. But his car was a 5 speed if that matters. Im probably going to stay away from tuning it my self. Idk. Im at a loss. Im thinking the newer DFI system like the thruster can have you up and running faster, and easier to tune than years back. Am I off on this?

 

You're right on imo. The Accel really is easy to tune and offers great driveability. I'm the one that did their "How-To" video. I'll help.

 

WHat are the changes with the gen 8?

 

Have you overlooked RBob's EBL Flash system??
Seems hard to miss on this forum.

http://www.dynamicefi.com/

Painless is just one of the outfits that make new harnesses,

http://www.painlessperformance.com/

 

Although it won't be out till next year there are a slew of changes. The ability to you different size injectors on the same motor, individual cyl. ignition trim, internal dual wideband, more datalogging, trans control, and bunch of other stuff.

The new Accel Firestorm ignition box due out this fall will do everything I mentioned on the ignition side, only thing it's missing is fuel managment.

 

I put a Thruster in my 85 Vette and like it a lot. The only complaint I had was that the documentation was weak, had errors and photos missing. But the tuning went well and it runs great. I have had no trouble with it at all. You will want the wide band sensor with it . Tuning is much better with the wide band. I do with they had a lower cost option for the wide band. When I got mine you had to get the data logger and all the bells and whistles with it when all you need is something like the Innovate module.

The Thruster is a scaled down version of the Gen 7. If you are racing and need every bit of control the Gen 7 is what you want. For performance car / street car / hot rod the Thruster has lots of features and the software is really good.

 

As you know I am an Accel EMIC so I'll let you in on a little secret, all the tuneability is there with the Thruster as well, just have to access it differently.

You can use other O2's they just aren't as accurate and I can prove it. Imo, don't buy an Innovate, there are other better ones out there.

Thanks
Mark

 

Thanks Mark.

I am looking for another wideband setup. What works well with the Thruster at a good price?

 

Im looking at the Thruster, Holley Hp and lastly the XFI Fast. The only thing that is making me question the Thruster is the how long the sytem has been out. The Holley hp is brand new and has the easy efi feature as does the 2.0 fast to get baselines. My feeling is when i purchase which will be in the next 4 months i want the latest stuff. And I hear alot about lack of support from accel. They are now discontinuing their TPI stuff. You cant buy the throttle bodys anymore, or the superram setups, only thing i find is used stuff. I need a company thats gonna be there. XFi is backed by Comp, and Holley isnt going anywhere soon. These are my issues with the Accel stuff. Friend of mine bought a gen 7 DFi, had it tuned by a shop that delt with Accel, car never ran right, still doesnt, after spending money on dyno time and tuner wasnt that knowlagable. I dont want to run into this. Accel shouldnt be selling there stuff through shops with no experience and have the customers footing the bill for there leaarning it on the dyno.

 

I understand your concerns. Accel has been making this stuff for a long time and seems to have some solid technology and they are now part of the Prestolite Performance group. I will agree with the statement on support. I actually talked with the product manager on the phone and told him my experiences with the lack of documentation, forum support, and current FAQ on the web site. Of the products I have looked at I would say Holley had the best documentation and support material. I can't evaluate their hardware because I have not used it. If you scan the web you will see a lot less posts on Accel so there is not a strong user base.

On the other hand, if you are fairly comfortable with fuel injection operation and systems, the Accel hardware works well and the software is not difficult to learn / use. But if you need more support to learn the system, setup and tuning then Holley might be a better direction. Accel also had much fewer templates / baseline config than the others, but I only needed one and they had that. One of the other factors for me was support for the L98 TPI engine. Accel had all the connections, cables and adapters for my situation. It was pretty easy to figure out all the bits and pieces I would need to get the system installed.

So, it worked for me and my situation, but might not be right for someone else. If I did it again I might go Holley to have a larger user base to talk to. Bottom line is that Accel worked for me and I am happy with the way the Vette runs and the quality of the parts I got.

As far as the tuner you describe; if he couldn't get it right with the Accel then the problem is the tuner and not the system (just mho) Suppliers can't be responsible for the skill of the folks out there installing the equipment.

Let us know which way you go and how it works out. It is always good to hear first hand reports about the equipment available out there.

 

Exactly, I redid someones Holley awhile back, was it Holleys fault? No and there are other bad tuners out there for other brands as well. That's an industry problem not exclusive to Accel.

I have literally dozens and dozens of base maps. For the record I'm here to help, it's still the best system out there in it's price class, hands down. When done right it'll drive better and have better overall performance than anything out there.

And by the way Holley has filed for bankrupcy at least twice in the modern era.

Email me anytime at fastone01@hotmail.com

 

No but if it is an authorized distributor and they are the face of accel it makes accel look bad. Thats it, not knockin the product. Im not talking about the Commander, Its the new line of Hp and Domonator stuff. Well Why is accel discontinuing their lines of products? I called accel for support and they just tell me to call a local distributor which i did. In terms of bankrupcy, what does that have to do with anything? Gm did. Does that mean they are a bad company? Many hard working people in tough times have, that make them bad people? How many big companies have been bailed out or gone bankrupt and turned it around ten fold, individuels as well? Kind of a weird thing to bring up.


There is virtually no support for accel on any boards. Do a google on the thruster, you find basically nothing. When you mentioned it to me that was the first I had heard of it. I have one dealer in my area now, what does that say for accel getting the word out on the thruster? Im not saying one is better than the other, but to say a blanket statement that the Thruster is the best in its class hands down is kind of far fetched. Well you would say that though, you sell it. Im sure you wouldnt push the Fast or the Holley, bad for buisness.The holley hp system is right there in its class pricewise and its alot newer in terms of timeframe. You can tune the car without a laptop if you get the lcd screen, can the Thruster do that? The thruster is going on what 4 years old already?( maybe more) In terms of technology the way it moves so fast that is a long time. For a big purchase like that Id opt for the newest I could get. After my friends issues with the gen 7 DFI and the autorized dealer that supposed to know what he was doing installing it and tuning it, I was totally turned off by accel and its product line. If they are bad installers, then accel should dump them. It just makes them look bad.

 

I'm sorry your friend had a bad experience but that doesn't take away from the quality of the system. Does Holley, FAST or any of the others in this class hold any patents on their products? The answer is no, Accel has held a bunch for years, they were that far ahead that long ago.
Someone mentioned that Holley wasn't going anywhere, suggesting they'll be around for awhile. I wouldn't take that bet, that's why I mentioned the bankrupty that's all.

You are correct, Accel/Prestolite doesn't advertise much, shame on them. But that "4 year old system" beat FAST and all the others at the last EMC, it made more avg. power, more avg torque and best peak power. In fact, it spanked some of the other EFI systems. Still think it's old technology? It's not, everyone else is just now catching up.

And I get paid to tune many different systems, not just Accels', plus I became a dealer for Accel AFTER I put one on my car, that's how much I believe in it.

I appreciate it, thanks.

 

Well Accel needs to get there act together. I need injectors and while I had the top of the super ram off I was going to put them in. Call Accel, big mistake. All the tech guy did was say "Yup, yup a few times as I was going over what I planned to do and he told me" well im gonna give you this number, they can help you out with injectors" I ended up calling Kinsler, thats the number I got from them. You see where im comming from here. Absolutly no help at all. Feel like im talking to the wall. I ended up calling holley and even though I dont own there system, they took the time to go over what i need and how to get there. They gave me numerous dealers to go though. I ended up getting the injectors from them. Its just a joke. I had a previous problem with a RMS quicktime flexplate recently. One of the torque converter bolts wasnt drilled right, had to drill the dam thing out under the car after the motor was in. You know what Prestolite said? Oh you should have sent it back to us to make it right. Ya ok. Im gonna pull the motor back out to take the flexplate off, send it to them and wait for another. What planet are they from here. Check it when it leaves the factory. Three lousy holes and you cant get that right. Efi guy, you wonder why I have such disgust for Prestolite and all affiliated brands. Just a joke plain and simple. Im sure Im not the only one. You need to tell them. Get it together already. Im going be buying a system in a month or 2 and as it stands now Accel is on the bottom, if not off the list. When is the new DFI 8 comming out? Whats the deal with that? I keep hearing its going to be the best hands down but all I hear is talk. What is the final verdict on that?

 

Accel is set up for people like you to go thru their dealers. Good or bad that's the way it's always been. I agree and disagree with it for various reasons.
It's too bad you didn't call the name he gave you.

I'm here to help. Imo you'd be short changing yourself to not at least consider the Thruster ECM. I promise it'll still drive better than anything in it's class.

If you asked me 6 mos ago what the status was with the Gen8 I'd say it was dormant. However, I'm doing some beta testing for them on some things and all I can say is that I believe the Gen8 is alive and well and will be introduced sometime in the future. Let's just leave it at that.

Email me if you like, I'd be glad to talk with you.
Mark
fastone01@hotmail.com

 

Ill give you this. You know your stuff and are persitant. Btw I did call kinsler. They wanted about $60 an injector. They are quite expensive. Thing i was upset about was the fact Accel tech didnt know anything about there own injectors which are basically Lucas unit. I have always used the Holley/ Rochester type injector with always good results and no problems. Didnt want to venture into using a newer style Lucas ones. Spray pattern is way different as the Rochesters mimic the Boch 3s interms of spray pattern , which I assume is coned for the tpi manifold to be able to hit the intake valve at the right angle, the lucas ones have a wider spray pattern. Well anyway. i know You are an Accel dealer. Can you tell me how much out the door with everything I need. Right now Im runnning all motor with 36lb units. Super ram, accel 58tb, trick flow twisted wedge heads Lingenfelter 219 cam and 10 to 1 compression. Need to be able to lock up the converter, my fans are already wired in series to kick in off the block sensor at 180. So i wont need that output. Right now Im on the fence interms of power adder which will come way next year, but need to know if the unit will support boost, and or Nitrous, which im leaning towards now. A small 80-100 shot dry though and fed through the injectors. Need all the harness, sensors an I may use the duel sync. Thanks

 

Pm'd you. Thanks for your understanding.

 

I just purchased the Holley HP. After alot of research I felt for the price out the door with everything $1500. Includes wideband, fan harness ecu, all sensors and wiring harnesses. Although I considered accel and fast, I felt Holley to be superior to the other 2. Have not had good experience with Accel, they discontinue parts, customer service is horrible, try calling them, they know nothing and tell you to go through a dealer or call one for answers. Fast just doesnt have the options Holley does and its more exspensive to boot. In addition to the system I ordereda fast duel sync distributor, which will give me sequential operation. Now before anyone jumps on me and says batch fire is just as good, I needed a distributor anyway, and makes no sense to buy a msd for $250+ when for a little more $330 I can go sequential. Bought everything from moore racecraft, who is def a knowlagable and recommended holley hp guy. Comes highly recommended on yellowbullit and chevytalk forums and numerous others. Will keep everyone updated. Take care

 

Cool beans, nice ECU.

I think your gonna be happy.

 

Just curious, why? Because it was cheaper? What are the features that effect drivability, besides the "self tuning", which does and doesn't work, that helped you make your decision? Thanks for your feedback.
I understand your concerns about support etc but I'm still curious as what features in the ECU made you buy that one.

 

First and formost it was not price, couple of things off the bat, data logging is optional on the thruster, not so with hp, thruster can control tcc, but you have to buy the harness, hp has fuel and oil pressure imputs, I know thruster doesnt have fp imput dont know about the oil. Knock sensor optional on thruster which means another harness and sensor to buy, not so with hp. Up to 4 stage nitrous control hp, thruster only one. Thruster with just wide band option and no tcc harness is more $ than holley. Here is the link to where i bought mine http://mooreracecraft.com/holleyhp_efi.html shows all options for the hp.
Second Hp has the self tune cabability to get you up and running good.thing for someone like me. After having a Tec 2 way back in the day and having to pay a shop and basically being held hostage to get the thing tuned for big dollars Im done with playing that game. Plus that story I touched on with my friend a few years back using an "Authorized Accel Dealer" only to never get the car running right until this day, been there done that wont even touch it anymore. Third , look at it from my perspective, guy looking to get anftermarket efi system after being out of the game a while, just does a google search on all three I looked at. Tons of forums and board members using fast and holley.Thruster virtually non existent, besides your videos you cannot find anything on the system, and its hard to find anyone using it. Im a hands on person, from what Ive seen and read the holley looks like some thing I can instal in my garage, take it down the road and tune it and be done. Fourth thing, technology is old and technology moves fast, I wouldnt buy a 5 year old lap top why would I buy a 5 year old efi ? I want the newest I can buy at the time I purchase. Now the #1 feature that sold me on the hp was self tune, accel puts that in there , they are back in the game. Holley also offers lcd for incar which can be used to acces and change the tune like a laptop. Your a top notch dealer but your not local to me, if you were.it would be different. Accel dealers around here come and go like the seasons. Place that tuned my friends car isnt there anymore. His ineptness, sent my friends nephew over to to buy a fast instead of the accel ,he has a gen7. This is going back 6 years or so. So those are some of the issues, and I wont go into accels customer service, with you being the exception.Hope that clears some up. Thanks

 

I agree, unfortunately there are too many bad tuners, just like too much bad info on the net. But if you would have taken a minute and gone to the Accel website you would see a few "Master" tuners there, they would have been happy to help as well. My name will be added shortly, it's a matter of experience and time as an EMIC.

For the record, you still haven't told us what features that "effect the running quality of the application" the Holley has that the others don't. All you've mentioned is cost, support, and rightfully so, and accessories.

Also for the record the new FAST 2.0 and Holley list a bunch of new running quality features, all of which the Accel has had since '04. So much for new technology.

Remember I became a dealer AFTER I bought and installed the system myself.

Best of luck in your project.

 

Ok I think we have a misunderstanding, dont you remember you quoted me a price well say for sake of not posting prices, 50 bucks short of 2? And do you remember in order to run nitrous it was anothe $225?? Thats quite expensive for a system thats 5 years old.You also forgot to mention to data log longer than 44 min youd have to upgrade the thruster at the cost of $500, which essentially makes it a gen 7. In regards to relying on the internet to much I guess were all guilty, your videos are on there, should I not rely on the info in them being legit and honest? You have said that I hadn't revealed yet why I think the Holley was a better pick than the thruster. You have not convinced me either why accel is a better pick, just saying it works great, and what I bought accel did years ago. Funny if accel is so ahead of the game maybe you should email them because their DFI section of their website has been underconstruction forever. Summit racing has more info on its system then they do. Accel needs to get there act together, in the 80s early 90s they were top of there game. Now, they are becomming a footnote to others. Short story, remember back in the early 90s vortec dominated the centrifical supercharger market. They owned it hands down. Along came ATI, i bought one of there first kits for tpi back then. Vortec still held on to there ideas of not air to air on the street, cast impellers old designs that were never improved upon. Nothing but bad to say about ATI. Long story short, how the tables have turned. Does anyone even buy a vortec anymore? Now they offer air to water coolers for street use.
Ive bought my first super ram through accel directly, with all the fun of warped covers that never sealed and the rigmarole to get them to acknowledge it. I dont think its a thing of that the accel thruster is not capable, its a point of Im not spending another dime with them because im not taking the chance again with more balony, even though the thruster may be more than capable, Im not taking the chance. Remember I bought a quicktime flexplate not long ago and the thing wasnt right, there part of prestolite. Seen and been through to much with that company to give them any more buisness.

That said, I have had good luck up to this point using Holley, plumbed my whole car Earls speedflex, use them excluisivly for all my an stuff. Just bought a stealth ram for another 383 I have. etc...

Why dont you become a Holley dealer? More buisness to sell 2 systems than one. Alot of guys are looking at both the dominator and holley hp now. Just my feelings. If the Holley is subpar to accel please post in detail why. Thanks

 

I want to answer as many of your questions as I can here;

It doesn't look like the Accel website is under construction to me, it's actually quite nice and extensive;
http://www.accel-ignition.com/ACCELD...tACCELDFI.aspx
http://store.prestoliteperformance.com/acceldfi.html

You asked for an explanation of features? No problem, the Truster has more transient, warmup and starting tables than the Holley or FAST, even the new versions. That equates to better drivability, period. Again the others have now just caught up. Seems they were 5 years behind.
Plus the Gen 7 and Thruster are the only true VE based systems in this price range;
FAST- Pulse Width
Holley- Pulse Width
Motec- Pulse Width
Haltech- Pulse Width

A true VE will calculate the quantity of air entering the motor much like a Mass Air but with more flexibility. The Accel takes that last parameter into consideration when calculating the pulse width needed to achieve the desired air/fuel. That makes for better, more consistent drivability along with the other features mentioned above. The others can't make that claim, they are a pulse width based system. Those are the facts plain and simple.

For the next topic you never asked me about datalogging, I would have told you what I said before. You never asked me if you could wire the Nitrous or other accessories yourself, I guess I should have asked but most guys don't want to fool with that, they want a harness and go from there. I could go on and on but my bad I guess for not asking.

Just my opinion but I think you saw the cheaper price on the Holley and the rest is history. You didn't ask me half the questions you seem to have asked the Holley dealer.

I hardly ever sell the Gen 7 anymore. Unless someone needs multiple stages of nitrous the Thruster offers tons of tunability on it's own. plus you can access the Gen 7 software with it for even more flexibility. There are no upgrades for the Thruster as you keep mentioning. All the features I described are standard.

I'm sure your application will run fine. However I contend it could have run better.

And at this time I'm not interested in becoming a Holley dealer. I've been doing a lot of FAST stuff lately. Seems they currently have some issues with reputable tuners as well as some software problems.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

efiguy, you are selling me on an Accel Thruster for my combo. I'd like to pick your brain about some things I've learned recently. If you could PM me with an email address, I'd like to email you directly so that you can reply at your convenience. Thanks much!

Will

 

Got your pm. My email is fastone01@hotmail.com. Contact me anytime.

Thank you.

 

Much obliged. I'll shoot you an email this week!

Will