Are any of the aftermarket ECM's plug and play with a 1989 GTA? I want to be able to tune, but the older factory ECM requires chips / flashing / removing and replacing as I program. Any suggestions?

Factory 350, only upgrades made are upgraded roller rockers, larger injectors, cx racing headers and a turbo.

Cannot get to run because it is SO rich at idle...

 

you may be able to buy a used ebl flash ecm 2nd hand. would plug right in

 

Interesting, found something, but was for an 84 vette... I will keep researching.

 

Ended up pulling the trigger on a Holley Terminator X 550-936 along with Brian Tooley Racing EV1/EV6-8 - BTR Fuel Injector Plug Adapters and Holley 558-304 - Holley GM Distributor Wiring Harness Adapters.
I will report back on my results. Will be installing this weekend.

 

Hmm, isn't the MAF going to peak out under boost? I'm thinking you're in it for a rewire anyway to convert to speed density.

 

MAF will be eliminated with the Terminator X

 

I recently put a holley system on my 91

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...cm-91-tpi.html

Since you're adding boost, why not go distributorless and use LS coils or similar? Your combo would benefit from COP

 

I just read your entire thread. Incredible work. Very detailed, I wish my wiring was coming out as clean as yours. I simply don't have the time to rebuild the harness so beautifully. Awesome work though!!!

 

For my 89 K1500, currently running a EBL, looking at two systems:

Haltech Nexus
https://controls.is/shop/ecu/lpc8gen2

Both will run DBW, CNP and 4L60E

 

Make sure to carry extra Bosch wideband o2 sensors with you. They're junk sensors and like to fail a lot sometimes immediately

 

I tried to find a NTK or Denso substitute with no success. But lots run the Bosch with no issues.

 

On a Terminator X system you can't run anything else except a crappy Bosch sensor. Only HP/Dominator can run Bosch or NTK wideband

 

They're OEM for most euro cars around 2015 and some ford's. Too many cars on the road use them for tens of millions of miles without issue
VW Jetta 0 258 017 025 or 17025 (most common holley replacement)
Mini cooper 17010
Audi A5 17178
F150 ecoboost 17323

I think it's more likely that crappy tunes and/or improper installation kills sensors for the holley kits. I've had a bunch roll through my shop still rocking the super rich canned tune from the handheld along with 02's welded to the bottom of exhausts trapping moisture

 

That definitely seems to be the way these Terminator o2 sensors go. They're either indestructible or broken out of the box

 

Also depends how the ecu commands the heaters. The oem Delphi's on the Silverado are going for 240k km, couldn't ask for more. I also have a suspicion that some kits intentionally include clones as cost cutting (AEM gauge kit?) and the supply may be compromised wit counterfeit. Personally I would prefer another make- but I've seen them go the distance, as Pocket stated...a good tune/proper placement really helps.

https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...17025.2697426/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...and-o2.376567/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/halt...5702829982353/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/haltechtuningandtips/posts/3788728631346436/
https://forum.autosportlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=4686
https://www.hpacademy.com/forum/general-tuning-discussion/show/ntk-vs-lsu-widebands/

 

This is interesting! I assume you have to change the connector on the engine harness to match? Wire colors and pinouts different?

 

I purchased a Denso 'equivalent'- same Bosch connector- but it was 1 point out.......it's all in the trim resistor they tune it too. It is just too expensive to test multiples for me.

 

Same connector/pinout. Different pigtail length

 

Are you sure? Holley uses a Metri-Pack 150 connector which is quite old and barely even supported by APTIV.
Whereas pictures I see online for those VW and Ford part numbers have a different form of connector, each specific to their brand's connector strategies.

 

If you check on ls1tech there's a bunch of part numbers that actually match what Holley is using. If people on here are buying whatever wideband because it "fits" but needs to change connectors. They're just wasting their own time and money. There's a few different ones that are direct plug n play.

Terminator systems are bottom of the barrel entry level systems that people want to get everything a top of the line Dominator can do. I've seen too many times where a guy spends all the money on a Terminator X system to do what a Dominator can do but still be limited. Those same people ended up throwing the Terminator in the garbage and buying a Dominator in the end.

Imo if you're going boosted or even high comp NA there's ZERO reason to cheap out on the ECU that's gonna control it all. I for one am glad I went to the Dominator in my car I never thought I'd need all those I/O but after a few years of the car on the road I've added a bunch of sensors and now I know exactly what's going on without doubt.

The Terminator X systems are a flawed system and one look at the Holley forums will show that but they're also cheap enough to get a guy into fuel injection and the harnesses are universal across the Holley lineup which is nice. The biggest problem is people buying them wanting top level performance while paying bottom dollar.

The Holley HP ECU is where a guy should start. You get basically everything the Dominator can do with the exception of transmission control. Being able to use the far superior NTK wideband if one chooses to do so is just a case closed kinda thing for me, not to mention the internal datalogging

 

Holley uses 558-463 adapter to convert from the 8 pin metripack to the bosch connector used on the LSU wide bands

The reason is that NTK sensors use the 8 pin metripack and holley uses the same main harnesses for both sensors. No LSU wide band fits the 8 pin metripack directly without that adapter

Most of my harnesses are custom fit to the application and if said build will never have a need for the NTK sensor, I terminate with the 6 pin bosch and use a 17025 sensor. Saves a $60 adapter

I posted PNs, so do a google search to compare the O2 connector end vs the holley adapter. I referenced the 2015ish era because after that, the sensor connectors became proprietary for the application. Most new tech follows the strategy of using a semi-universal unit that later specializes into unique applications. ABS modules and iBoosters are other examples

This list seems to have more applications, but I haven't verified them
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1478

Terminator is an entry level EFI controller, full stop. Not sure how that was up for debate

The LSU wideband used on this is an OEM production part which is why all the numbers were listed above. The sensor is budget friendly due to scale of production which pairs well with the ECU. If the sensor design was flawed it would not have so many cars on the road without issue. Yes, the NTK sensor is superior, but if you put an overly rich tune on the engine or install it incorrectly it will fail just like the cheaper LSU sensors

 

I had a pretty in depth conversation with my tuner and he illuminated a few things that y'all may find useful

There are 3 WBO2s used with holley control systems

LSU 4.9
LSU 4.2
NTK

The basic terminator x, x max and snipers without external ECMs all use LSU4.9's. Since these are budget systems, costs were reduced by using production vehicle WB02s. The VW 17025 sensor is the standard replacement

HP, Dominator and snipers with external HP ECMs come default with LSU4.2's but can be switched to NTK. Both sensors are proprietary to holley with undisclosed resistors built in. There are no production replacement sensors that will function directly

I've installed close to 30 Terminator X/X Max systems, but have minimal experience with the HP/Dom ECMs. I wasn't aware of the cross-incompatibility for the O2s. I'm curious is some of the above O2 failures could have resulted from this

 

The HP and Dominator ECU'S have slightly different drivers for those wideband o2 sensors as I've read. You're also not supposed to have an NTK wideband plugged in if you've got a Bosch sensor selected as it'll ruin it as soon as you turn the key.

The USB cable also has a chip in there that has a proprietary firmware.

 

I thought the 4.9 was just a newer/better WB tougher and can withstand higher temps- never had an issue with the 4.2. Also thought the 17025 was an aftermarket only Bosch version (non oem app).