The datasheet for the Flash ROM specifies a "typical endurance" of 10,000 write cycles. "Typical" is usually very conservative.

BTW Mark, shoot me an Email when you can and let's talk about software.

 

The switcher is also good for testing multiple changes to a a prom - say you are tweaking a setting - you can leave your "known good prom" in the first setting, then add 10% to the setting in the next position, 20% in the next etc - as you are testing you can switch between them to see the results.

 

i'm a bit confused, this is probably explained somewhere but i could not seem to find it.

i don't currently have a laptop but if i have to i would get one this would be a sweet deal and even ideal for a single user.

do i make modifictions to my ecm inside the car? solder in an addapter? how does that procedure work?

do i take the PromINATOR, hook it up to my computer through the parellel port, download or upload a bin of whatever changes have been made, unhook it, then go hook it up inside the car to the ecm? through a cable or something?

if that's how it works what details am i missing?

as far as i can tell that's how its setup. or is the Prominator permanately connected to the ecm and the only way i can adjust settings is through the use of a laptop in the car? that would simply require me to buy a cheap laptop for 100bucks which isn't a real problem but would still delay me from using the pc i already have....

and pretaining to the switch, with the regular Prominator i would have to turn the car off, switch say the drag setting, then turn the car back on?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i understand it now, the prominator is permantely placed into the car's ecm, and it can only be adjusted with the key on, and with the use of a laptop, im sure i can get a laptop for under 100bucks thats no problem.

i found craig's diagram and im still a bit lost on how it all goes together, you just use an adapter to connect the 2 togeather, or do i send it to bill to do it?

i'm not new to computers, or to code, but i just really didn't want to get extremely involved in DIY programming, but now thats history!!
GREAT PRODUCT GUYS.

 

in order to keep bill/ken from explaining this stuff over and over again, please read this entire thread. the answers to all your questions are there!

bill also posted a link to the prominator website.

sorry if this is snooty.

 

are there problems with the ordering site?
it failed 2x on me...

Error Type:
Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A000D)
Type mismatch: '[string: ""]'
/orderprominator.asp, line 569


and on a side note...
what eprom size is the 870 ecm?

thanks

 

The 870 takes a 2732 EPROM and I think it is 4kb But I might be wrong

 

The bin-switching feature works the same for either standard or pro version. I don't see any reason you couldn't switch bins while running (as long as they are good bins!).



Its like this...you take the EPROM (and socket) out, leaving a board with a bunch of holes where the EPROM (socket) used to be. The Prominator has two rows of thru-hole pins on the bottom of the board that will go into the holes left by the removal of the EPROM/socket and soldered in place. In the case of some of the later (P4?) ECMs (ie 7730, 7749...etc) you will need a Moates Memory Adapter, the Prominator board will solder directly to the Moates adapter. Its up to you if you want to do it yourself...but if you're not pretty experienced with de-soldering then the chances of destroying an ECM are VERY good.

I would ask that if there is confusion on this item that you check out http://misterbill.homeip.net/aboutprominator.asp not because I mind answering questions, not at all, but if that doesn't help clear things up then the feedback will help us to add the pertinent info there.

I would also ask to please not ask me for actual tuning advice. Again, not because I don't want to...I simply do not have the experience in that area to give valid advice (yet). I really wouldn't mind those kind of questions if I knew how to answer them. Truth is I haven't even ran WINALDL on my own car yet...heck my '84 Vette still has the stock ECM in it! I've just been so busy trying to get this thing ready (and reliable!) that I just haven't had time to educate myself in the tuning process itself.

As for the ordering site...it is possible that you caught me in the process of changing from a dynamic to a static IP address from Qwest. I've not seen this problem before, try it again and please do let me know if there are still problems with it.

 

thanks a lot man, after re-reading the whole thread again and craig's site i do understand how it works now

now comes my new-to-burning question: i plan on the 305 manual to 350 swap and i figured the stock 350 would have the auto setting, and also that it's not very good, so if necessary i'd like to invest in a cheapo laptop and this prominator for future use. my question is that

is there really a difference i'm going to obtain with prom tuning, say for a winter (15 F) setting, summer(80 F) setting, highway setting for gas milage, city setting, cruising setting, i'm only a daily driver currently, but in the future id like to get into auto-x

thanks.

 

If you want to get a Moates Chip adapter 'without' the socket installed, I can hook you up with that no problem. Also, if you want to trade yours for a new one without the socket installed, no problem there either.

Bill, if you want to have some of the 'partial' units on hand to ship with these, let me know. I could send you a batch and that could save on overall shipping costs for folks...

 

That's a good idea Craig. That will also save the hassle of having to get parts from two different sources.

I'll shoot you an Email so we can work that out.

Bill

 

Or I could sell Prominators for you

 

Pretty Damn Kewl

 

I can’t wait to put this sweet thing in my 165 ECM.

Installation question:
I see at Bill’s page that the PROMinator got only 24 pins for the 16K and 32K chips, but I thought that a 27C128 got 28 pins.
The Craig G1 adapter got 28 pins is only a matter of line up the 14 pin with the 12 pin?

Laptop vs. PC question:
I have an IBM ThinkPad G40 and according to a previous post it was a problem with one ThinkPad’s maybe is already solved. In the case that our Laptop doesn’t work will be possible to provide power to the ECM (Not on the Car) can we use a PC at home to download the BIN file? (In my case will be the ECM pins B1 and C16)

Thanks,
Cobra289 (Carlos)

 

Carlos, it can be set up for either 24, 28 or 32 pins. We can configure the board to replace anything between 2716 (16Kbit) and 27040 (4Mbit) EPROMs.

Another little extra note....for folks that will need a Moates Memory Adapter board for your P4, I will have them on hand so you don't have to mess with getting that from Craig then sending it to me for install (if you choose to do so). I will also have some of Craig's enclosed rotary DIP switch assemblies with the little display, so you will have the option of using his or our simpler one, which is simply a panel-mount switch assembly.

If you want one of Craig's items, you just need to make a note in the "Comments" section of the ordering form at http://misterbill.homeip.net/orderprominator.asp.

 

Thanks Bill,
As soon as I get your shipping quote I will put the order and pay you via PayPal.
Regards,
Cobra289 (Carlos)

 

I'm planning on ordering a prominator next week. Just curious how its been working out for the people who already have it? I'm planning on getting the pro version. thanks Eric

 

There haven't been very many shipped yet...just some 2nd rev. prototypes. The production order for PC boards was placed last Tuesday 2/4/04, and should take about 10 days. Once I get those in I'll probably spend the following weekend sitting down and assembling 10 or 20 or so of them, then they'll start going out more quickly.

I'm in the process of adding Craig's items (rotary DIP with display and G1 memory adapter) to the ordering page, so you can select them instead of having to make a note in the comments section. There is a link now to download the software also, which will of course be updated from time to time as improvements are made.

As you all can imagine I've been pretty bombarded with Emails lately, but I'm trying to keep up as best I can. About a week ago I had an operating system crash on the PC that I keep my Emails organized on, so if you've sent me an Email but didn't get a reply that's probably why, just go ahead and send it again. Sorry.

I think Ken's going to start up a Prominator discussion forum soon also, that will make it easier for everyone to share opinions, experiences, questions...etc.

Bill

 

Feedback you all want, I got some for you. I have had my Prominator now for 4 days and counting. I love it guys, you have to get one (hope that does not over whelm Bill with orders). I am runing an 8746 ECM, only a couple guys with Prominator in this ECM I guess, I have ran into a couple of issues that are not exactly right I guess, Bill is aware of them... and let me tell you this, Bill is a problem solver, what I can see so far he takes matters into his own hands and if he cant figure it out, he breaks out the big dogs... heck I was even getting emails from the creator of WinALDL, which is where we are currently haveing a slight problem, its an eratic byte count, that little box at the top of the screen that useually has a green 20 in it, it turns red and fluctuates and then back to green 20 again. However, it is a very small problem, it has not slowed me down at my tuneing what so ever. I personally was running all 110ish BLM (YUCK) 8 bins later most everything is 128ish (Prominator + Bill = :hail: ). Also a problem only for myself that no one elce has ran into as of yet, WinALDL will not work without my prominator pluged in, as soon as I plug in my other ECM instead of the one with the prominator, WinALDL works fine, and no eratic byte count. I personally do not see this as a problem... I dont think I will ever want to modify my bin with out haveing WinALDL on... LOL. SOOOO... moral of the story PROMinator is SWEET, if your are even debateing it... GET ONE. Thanks Bill and Ken, this is the best money I have spent on my car in a great while!!

 

Im sorry to mess up the flow you guys have going here, but could someone PM me what this actualy does? I dont think I got a strait answer out of anyone, and Ive been away from the site for some time. Thank you very much. If there is a website or something that explains it, you can just PM that to me so we can keep the convo off this thread.
Thanks in advance
Alex.

 

Ive a couple of questions on the prominator.
First, can it be moved to another ecm If I switch ecms in the future. I currently want to use it with a 8746 ecm, running a 4 barrel tbi with additional injector drivers. In the future there is a small chance I will swap to a 749 ecm for turbo. It will probably not happen but just in case I want to do the swap is it easy to swap to the 749 ecm?

How long is the rotary switch cable? Long enough to put the switch in the ashtray?

would the memcal in the 8476 be ok for my next project. It use to run a 305 tbi. Will it run the 430 hp 350 OK? Do I need to find a memcal from a 350? Could you please explain the memcal thing to me

Thanks

 

Alex, this should help you out a little bit https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=220978

Tony

 

thank you tony, i will post my questions there!

 

http://www.prominator.com

It is possible to remove it from one ECM and install in another, but I would recommend that you send it to me to do...unless you're REALLY good at de-soldering. In the 8746 it will be soldered in where the EPROM socket is now, and its not a trivial task to desolder and remove from the ECM.

The "default" length for the remote switch cable is about 4 feet. If you need longer just make a note when you order.

 

I dont know if this question was answered but with the pro version can you actually reprogram the bin in the rom directly while you driving or is it still a matter of, opening an editor, then reprogramming and then flashing the rom on the prominator?

 

How long are the commercial grade parts used rated for in an automotive environment.......what is the expected life of the module?
I am guessing that the Xilinx is a CPLD. Is the JTAG header accessible for reprogramming?

Are the FLASH devices used in a ping-pong manner so that the actual min. write cycles is 2 * 10K = 20K writes per location?

 

The "expected life" is at least 10 years.

The JTAG header is accessible, but there's no reason for the user to need access to it.

The number of writes is doubled for the pro version, but not for the standard.

 

I have a question about serial ports/prominator/ALDL connections. I realize that the prominator requires a serial connection. Now I was hoping to plug my car into the same laptop and monitor the signal coming from the ALDL. Will I require a laptop with two serial connections, or is this sort of thing even possible?? I am not familiar with WinALDL. I was hoping to use RT Tuner and another software package to monitor the ALDL signal. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

Hi Northern-tpi,
Please check the next link and see my post (Cobra289)
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...08#post1735408

- PROMinator does not require a serial connection.
- PROMinator use only a parallel port.
- If you want to make some Data logging you need a Serial port, but this work independent of the PROMinator.
- So you can use a Lap Top and do Data logging and update your BIN files to the PROMinator at the same time. (Providing that your Lap Top got 1x Parallel and 1x Serial Port)


TunerPro RT can monitor the ALDL signal and can provide you with data. Got to “tools” and select “ALDL/Data Logging".

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Alright, thanks Cobra289:

It sounds like I will be able to have both the Prominator connection and the connection to my ALDL active/connected at the same time. This should be really cool to monitor and update nearly simultaneously. Thanks for the help!!!

 

Hi Northern-TPI,
If you mean “simultaneous” at RT (Real Time) I think that this is not possible with the Standard version.
You load the BIN file (Car stopped, key on start) and after loading you start the car and you do Data logging.
And other possibility is:
- Load several BIN files, run the car and do data logging with one bin, switch to other BIN during driving but continue with data logging and so on.

Everything changes when you have the “PROMinator PRO” because this baby is a RT device and you can load the BIN at the same time you are collecting data.

Did you know that there is a dedicated forum for the PROMinator?
You can ask this kind of questions. (It is just started)
http://prominator.homeip.net/

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Any status updates for getting functionality integrated into TunerCat or TunerPRO in order to make this solution even more viable for the pro version and emulating?

Right now it appears you have to be in TC or TP and then save your file. Open the prominator software, load it there, and then program from there. It would be cool just to save and send from a single program.

Tim

 

Bill/Ken sent me a pro unit last week. Soon as I free up a bit of time (hopefully in the next 7 days), I'll integrate prominator support (probably in its most basic form to start).

 

Mangus You Rock

 

I'll second that ... and third it ...

Tim

 

And I third that, no wait, fourth that.
Mangus keep the donation line open, the least I can do is buy you a beer. I will keep an eye out for your latest work-

Thanks-
S-D

 

Its always open, and always appreciated. ;-)

 

An update....

Finally picked up a batch of boards yesterday. The fab shop was a little slower than expected. I did get one built and tested tonight, so the boards look ok.

I will get 'em built and shipped for those of you that have ordered and paid already as quickly as I can. As soon as I can get caught up (like that really ever happens) I will do my best to keep a couple built and "in stock".

Thanks for the patience guys.

Bill

 

Scheweee...it took me 2 hours to read all of this...I've been reading the DIY prom buring section for 2 years now, not confident enough to jump in.....Now, thanks to you guys, I'm finally realisticaly excited. I look forward to sending you my ecm and getting started....I'm patient.....Thanks for having a higher level of moral reasoning ....time / motive for creating the prominator....it's good to see people like you are still out there

Stan

 

Has anyone heard how Bill is making out with his last set of Prominator boards?? I haven't seen any activity in this post in the past week and I was wondering if anyone has any success stories they can share. I hope to get a board in my car in the near future. It is in dire need of a new program. I am too excited to get started in programming. I am a newbie, but I love a challenge. From what I have been reading I am going to be very busy. With luck I might (MIGHT) get my car on the road this year. I just replaced the 19lb injectors with 24lb injectors and it really is running to rich with the stock chip.

 

Hi northern-tpi,

I just received an e-mail from Bill.
He has some back log and a very busy live.
He can work on the PROMinator only on the weekends, and one of the parts is very difficult to get, but he is making progress.
My prominator is planed to be made next weekend.
So we need to be patient.

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Thanks Corbra289,

I am not pushy, I was just curious that I did not see any posts on this topic in about a week. I was hoping this was still a hot topic, because I am really excited. However I am as patient as the next guy.

 

now let me get this right, and for give me I've been gone a while.

This will work for all the 3g. computers as well as say a GN?!?!?

This Rocks, I'll definately have to order one, or more!!!

 

Electrically it will work with anything that uses a 27 or 27C series EPROM.

As for physical fit, we haven't had one of the "weatherproof" ECMs to play with for fit, but other than that it does fit inside 7747/8746, 7749/30, 7748, 7165...etc.

I am building and shipping them now, but still about 10 orders away from being "caught up".

 

Congrats on your success....I'm patiently waiting for you to get caught up on your own time, then will order one, may try to find a good ecm to send so as to not shut down my daily driver....

Stan

 

if i purchased a standard version of this and set it and took it to the track or put it on a dyno and after making a run decided i need change the calibration could i change the calibration at the track, however many times i need? if so how would it work?

 

Please read throught the thread, it tells all, but here's a quick rundown of what I understand about it

Basically, you replace your current PROM with the prominator (Prom eliminator), and you connect the prominator to your laptop and make the changes. After the run you make a change, send it to the prominator, and you're done. No more chip swapping.

There's also a link in here to the official prominator page, check that out!

 

This is amazing. I really want to start doing chip stuff but I didn't feel like buying all the equipment and have to burn stuff. Will this work for my 88 305 TBI????

 

ttt

 

What's the ECM model number?

 

If I send my ECM to you how long would it take you to install the Prominator and send it back to me. Just wonder how far behind you are if any.