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Headers glowing @ 1500 RPM in closed loop.

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Old Dec 12, 2003 | 05:47 PM
  #51  
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So the SD tpi ecms actually have seperate tables for spark when the throttle is closed that are based on rpm and coolant temp. Wish i had that.
Switch to a SD TPI setup and you will !
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Old Dec 13, 2003 | 04:12 AM
  #52  
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This is probably a little late in the game, but I'm assuming that this is a fresh motor. If I am correct, then I will add this..... when I first fired my motor for that initial break in run, my headers glowed. It ran rich as I expected it to. I think the headers glowed for the first hour and a half I had it running. Of course stopping every 10 or 15 mins to let it cool off, check for leaks, etc. Important thing was to break in the cam. Once the motor freed up, the headers stop glowing.

Just a thought
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Old Dec 13, 2003 | 09:26 AM
  #53  
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Originally posted by 1bad91Z
Mech timing is set to 8* advanced (YES, it was verified with a timing light).

The glow is close to the heads on both headers (right as the primaries bend downwards).

Scott -

is it possible that your balancer was installed " a little off " ?
Is your crank keyed or are there several bolts that just hold it in place?
Its not really possible to install a balancer a little off, But chevy had I think 3 different balancers as well as I think 2 different timing covers through the years. Like I said earlier, I would try advancing the timing with car running while headers are glowing to see if it goes away and that will tell you if its timing.





I think the headers glowed for the first hour and a half I had it running. Of course stopping every 10 or 15 mins to let it cool off, check for leaks, etc. Important thing was to break in the cam. Once the motor freed up, the headers stop glowing.
I had mentioned that as well its sometime common for a frsh engine to burn oil in the headers until rings break in.
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Old Dec 13, 2003 | 01:25 PM
  #54  
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It is a fresh motor : externally balanced 406 ci with Holley Stealth Ram, 30 lb. injectors, 229/245 cam

There is no need to break in the cam (it's a hydraulic roller cam).

I do know that his rings are probably not seated yet, especially with the ammount of fuel the motor is dumping into itself. The motor has been running for a total of 3 or 4 hours total (off and on trying to finish it up).

The reason I mention the balancer being a little off, is because I'm not sure if his crank is keyed (to allow only one posistion of balancer). He also has an after market billet timing pointer (needle style).

Right now, he's just steadily decreasing VE. Maybe I'll bump up base mech. timing to 10* to see if that helps when I get over there today.
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Old Dec 13, 2003 | 05:58 PM
  #55  
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From: ELIZABETH,PA,USA
Originally posted by 1bad91Z
The reason I mention the balancer being a little off, is because I'm not sure if his crank is keyed (to allow only one posistion of balancer). He also has an after market billet timing pointer (needle style).

Right now, he's just steadily decreasing VE. Maybe I'll bump up base mech. timing to 10* to see if that helps when I get over there today.
All small block chevy cranks are keyed until the late 90's

VE is a good move, Bumping timing only 2 degrees will doubtfully tell you anything. I would keep increasing while headers are glowing to see if anything happens. Dont worry you wont hurt anything at idle - the engine will start to miss if you get to high.

I would like to see the overlap of that cam @ .006 , it may have to much.
Like my cam I had forced me to run open loop so I could lean fuel mixture above what the 02 (thought) was stoich. It purged soo much raw 02 that the sensor always thought I was lean when in fact I was rich.
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Old Dec 13, 2003 | 07:17 PM
  #56  
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The reason I mention the balancer being a little off, is because I'm not sure if his crank is keyed (to allow only one posistion of balancer). He also has an after market billet timing pointer (needle style).
My 406 has a crank key. Unless...maybe you forgot to install one. They just slide on the crank. AND can fall off before installing the balancer. So you need to be really sure on that one...
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Old Dec 14, 2003 | 02:03 AM
  #57  
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From: Plano, TX
Car: 1992 RS
Engine: 406 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
GOOD NEWS!

I made some great progress today! The first thing I did was disable AIR, per TRAXION's post (https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=214321), and cut VE down to 85% of stock. The timing is still dipping down in open loop (which seemed to cause minor header glow, they BARELY started to glow). It was still running very rich at idle after entering closed loop, so I shut her down and burned a chip @ 80% of stock VE. It entered closed loop quickly, and I experienced no header glow at all. I decided to take it for a trip around the block to see what would happen. I babied it around the block, trying to apply different loads. When I pulled back into the driveway, I immediately popped the hood and looked at my headers, and they looked normal! Datamaster showed that I was rich in some areas/lean in others, so I let VE master do its stuff, and repeated the process 2 more times. Now I ran out of time, or else I'd still be out there fiddling with it. I'm still slightly lean in some areas, but I'll just let VE master take care of it next time I burn a chip. When its not 2 AM I'll post some pics of the inital open loop startup, showing the timing dropping down to 15*-18*, because that still needs some work. Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it!!!

Last edited by Scott_92RS; Dec 14, 2003 at 02:07 AM.
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Old Dec 14, 2003 | 09:31 AM
  #58  
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From: ELIZABETH,PA,USA
Good job!!!!
I would not rule out timing physically being off though. 18* should not be enough to glow headers.. Unless the problem is still fuel being that there is no open loop VE correction. meaning if you are still real rich in some ares then open loop will show it.
But you are on the right track with the VE master.
If you find ve master not working greatly then you may need to smooth out the tables some using the graphing feature.Never used it myself but heard the if ve is to rough it will not work well and that I understand.
You also find after playing with your VE table alot and seeing changes and their effect, you will be able to get a few points data points and guess in between to get you real close.... LOL, and sometimes get real not close.
Great job again, now get out there and break it in right!
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