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VERY rich idle...HELP!!!

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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 06:28 PM
  #1  
jeepguy553's Avatar
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
VERY rich idle...HELP!!!

HELP PLEASE!!!
Here's the engine specs...
AMC 360 +0.030, 365cid
Cam 272/288, .472/.496", 114d CL
Accel ignition
Ported/polished
1228746 running ANLU bin with EGR/emissions disabled
O2 sensor not yet installed...probably running in LIMP HOME
Okay, I can't log data because the laptop I have is a POS.
Initial timing set to 6d BTDC in the bin. ECM working...I set the timing manually to 10d BTDC and started it. Checked with light and I see a 6d BTDC reading at the balancer. The engine seems to smooth out as I approach 10d BTDC timing at idle. I am considering bringing it to that or maybe even 12 BTDC at the balancer AND in the bin.
Initial (cold) start. Engine runs rich. So rich I can't stay in the garage with it for more than about 2 minutes. I'll admit I have a small oil leak from the valve cover, but the leak ain't enough to create this kind of smoke. Valve stem seals and all are brand new (4months old and only about 3000 miles on 'em). It's a Jeep...it's SUPPOSED to leak oil...I think
Target idle is set at 750 rpm. Max engine cold speed is set at 1400rpm. Max engine hot speed is set at 900rpm. (This may be the wrong setting...correct me please if it is...is this a rev limiter setting...?) I'd believe that the engine is running at 1400rpm cold start. I haven't yet been able to let it run long enough to see if ti comes off the cold start loop.
Question...why is this damn thing running so much gas at idle? Is it the base pulse width or is it the low MAP/RPM fuel table that needs to be tweaked a bit? would a 15% reduction tweak between 400 and 800 rpm and 20-50 MAP help things a bit?
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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 06:43 PM
  #2  
Brent's Avatar
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From: PA
Get out your vacuum gauge and see what its idling at.

Convert the vacuum reading to MAP and get into the VE table and lean it out.
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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 06:45 PM
  #3  
clippjr8's Avatar
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From: ohio
you need the o2 sensor to run in closed loop or it will run rich. without the 02 sensor, your computer has no idea how much fuel to add or take away. get it hooked up and see how it does then.
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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 08:21 PM
  #4  
jeepguy553's Avatar
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
I was afraid someone would say that. I was hoping to get a couple of cold start logs and tune the lower end of the spectrum...then worry about the closed loop stuff after I get the O2 sensor in it. I know it's running off the CALPAK (I think that's what it's called) and I figured it might run a LITTLE rich.
When I first started doing this, someone (maybe TRAXION) told me that the ANLU VE tables were essentailly crap and would need major rework. I believe him now. I smoked out my garage today in a matter of about 3 minutes. I am almost sure I need new plugs. I may try to clean these up with a little acetone to get a bit more time out of them...but with as much fuel as the engine is getting now, I am almost sure the plugs are fouled out by now. I should probably pull one and check.
Thanks, guys!
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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 08:54 PM
  #5  
Grumpy's Avatar
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Joined: Jun 2000
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
When you first start an engine and until ~140dF your in open loop. O2's not in play.

Disable codes 13,44,45 while you roughing in just getting it to run.

Did you do a min idle, IAC reset?.

A 10: cold run AFR at 1,400 is going to generate alot of fumes.

Set the timing at 6, and if you want more timing at idle add it in the chip.

Gotta work on the scanner or your gonna spend alota time playing games chasing things around.
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Old Jan 24, 2004 | 09:27 PM
  #6  
jeepguy553's Avatar
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
Originally posted by Grumpy
When you first start an engine and until ~140dF your in open loop. O2's not in play.
That's what I thought.

Originally posted by Grumpy
Disable codes 13,44,45 while you roughing in just getting it to run.[/B]
Easy enough. I have the chip in the AutoPROM and I can fix that in a jiffy.
Originally posted by Grumpy
Did you do a min idle, IAC reset?..[/B]
Yep. Just like the page from TGO's tech articles said to do it. DVM and all. I couldn't get the TPS to go less than 0.66VDC, but I have been told that the ECM does an auto zero on the TPS and this doesn't really matter
Originally posted by Grumpy
A 10: cold run AFR at 1,400 is going to generate alot of fumes..[/B]
Don't I know it. I can't stay in the garage for more than a few minutes with it running.
Originally posted by Grumpy
Set the timing at 6, and if you want more timing at idle add it in the chip..[/B]
6d on the dizzy, 10d in the chip...easy enough to do.
Originally posted by Grumpy
Gotta work on the scanner or your gonna spend alota time playing games chasing things around. [/B]
I know this too. I have a POS laptop. My bro in law is bringing me a Win98 machine tomorrow to leave in the garage. It'll work until I get the idle mess straightened out.
Thanks Grumpy!
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Old Jan 26, 2004 | 07:49 AM
  #7  
jeepguy553's Avatar
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
Good progress made

I got it unsmoked.
I took about 12% out of the VE1 table as a whole and a little more out of the area around 20-50MAP and 400-1200rpm. It worked great.
I can log data now, but only in my garage. I lugged a little Win 98 Packard Bell P-150 down to my garage and wired it all up to the AutoPROM. Works great...emulation, ALDL scanning, etc. It couldn't have been any easier.
The O2 sensor is going in tomorrow afternoon.
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