I have an 87 IROC with the 165 ECM, and converted over to the map/808 code yesterday. I have a few problems with it that I'll outline in list form to simplify things.

1. Does anyone have a copy of Bruce's "Tuning 808" article that he wrote a couple years back? All of the links I can find are dead, and can only find vague references to it. I emailed him asking for a copy, but like I do with most of my important stuff, he seems to have misplaced it

2. No matter what changes I make to the bin with regards to the fuel mapping, I cannot get the vehicle performance to reflect the changes at all. The car is running pig rich with o2 voltage consistantly at .890v and 110blm's. I got to the point where I just zero'd out the entire map table, changed all the A/F ratio tables to 14.7 across the board, and entered 35 lb injectors for the injector constant (they are the 26lb LS1 injectors). The o2 voltage does not waver at all, and the BLM's are still riding at 110 which is the lowest possible for this ECU. Also strange is that the integrator is sitting at 128 indicating that the computer is happy there, and the IAC is full open.

3. It idles at about 1200rpm and tries to stall if I put it in gear. MAP is 50 kph at 1200, but if it drops much lower than that the kPa drops to 90. The poor idle has to be a side effect of running so rich though, it ran excellent on the MAF.

4. Now it doesn't want to start. Not sure what I did, but I reversed to a virgin bin and it still wont start. It fires, revs go up like normal, and then it dies instantly. I have gotten it to fire a couple times, and the idle surges horribly. If I goose the throttle it dies. I'm really thinking fuel starvation, but WHY??!?!

I have verified that the MAP is good by swapping it with one of the other eight I got at the boneyard, and got no change. My datalogger is registering MAP voltage and kPa, and I get a check engine light if I disconnect the sensor. Engine also smooths out some if I disconnect the MAP, also indicating that my issues stem from there.

Is there some kind of black magic I need Aussies? I'll keep messing and researching, but any help you guys can offer would be great.

Oh, I'm using the 1227808_5d version 5.ecu mask and started with a modified version of this bin, Pontiac 305 map nunzio v1.bin (which worked for a while), then tried atjn and asbx with no results.

I really hope it's something as easy as a flag...

EDIT: forgot to mention that I am getting C/L, and when I hit the gas I can get the blm's to jump to around 117-127 above 2500, with the 127 falling at about 3200 rpm. All other areas are really rich.

 

What injector constant (KINJFLOW) are you using? If you're putting a number like "35" in there, you're in big trouble as it should probably be something like 0.12 (don't use that).

I have most of the "Tuning 808" posts- PM me your email and I'll send them to you.

What size engine and what trans do you have?

John

 

I really appreciate it, my email is quiktrp@cbcast.com

I went thru the ECU and converted all the metric stuff to american so I could understand it without looking at conversion tables. IE celcuis to F, kph to mph, and the injector thing. my 26lb/hr entry lines up exactly with the .13 g/sec.

I can email you the ECU if you want to check it out, I'm pretty sure I did all the conversions right though.

Here's a list of my mods that I copied off my webpage. It's a 305 and 700R4 though.

Polished stock IROC rims with black inserts
true duals
2.5" Stainless edelbrock mufflers
Hedman longtubes
gutted stock air boxes
Edelbrock Victor Jr. manifold converted to MPFI
World Products S/R Torquer 305 heads with Manley stainless 1.94/1.50 valves
Lunati cam: Lift .471/.480, Duration 219/227, Intake LSA 112, Exhaust LSA 108
26lb/hr LS1 fuel injectors
Holley annihilator ignition box
Holley Laser Shot Pro coil
custom Taylor 8mm wires with MSD boots and ends
DIY-PROM with 165 ECM and $6E mask
A/C delete, SMOG delete, P/S delete
Factory 'glass hood from an 83 Z28
March billet aluminum underdrive pulleys
B&M ripper shifter
Delco 170 stat
Autometer 3 3/4" tach

Thanks again,
Matt

 

Anybody out there?

I probably wont have a chance to play with it until the weekend, but any info would be very helpful

 

You have mail.

"I went thru the ECU and converted all the metric stuff to american". No you didn't, you converted it to Imperial . I thought the Americans won their independence from the British- why keep using units that are so damned confusing? Oh well...

The other confusing thing is that KINJFLOW isn't a conversion from lb/hour to g/sec. Its units are Litres/ grams per second, but the actual parameter entered into the .BIN seems to have some sort of scaling. For instance, I have a 4.9L (304 cu.in.) Holden V8 with Bosch '706 injectors. KINFLOW is 0.1095 see the Kalmaker site table here. If I used the same injector in a 5.7 L Holden KINFLOW becomes 0.1095*(4.9/5.7) = 0.0941.

Maybe you might try the Holden memcals bloke and ask him for an ATFL from an HSV SV5000 which IIRC had a cam with about 276 degrees off the seat. That's a $5d cal that might be a better starting point.

John

 

Our measurements confusing? I think for most of us stateside it's the other way around

That may be where some of my problem lays then. I think it's pretty close to where it needs to be, but with such small numbers I can see it being touchy.

I found the bin you advised on one of the FTP sites, I think it was gmecm's. I'll look at that tomorrow morning after I get some sleep.

Thank you very much for the files, I'm sure you just saved me a ton of time and trouble. Would you mind if I submitted those files to a Moderator for consideration to be stuck with the other 808 stuff? I know I spent about 3 days looking for the info you sent me, I'm sure others out there will be interested in it as well.

 

No problem with anything going into the public domain EXCEPT the Caldata sheet. All the rest is public domain stuff.

John

 

If you are trying to use a basde holden bin all the ref angles ect are wrong for a checv , the pontiac bin I posted is one I did on a 305 Pontiac , change your inj constant to suit your displacment/injectors then start tuning your VE table.

If you had it running good originally then I suspect you have introduced a error - start from scratch again - you will find it should run on the pontiac bin as the increased cubes will compensate for the bigger 350 injectors.

 

It seems that I did introduce some kind of error into it before. When I installed my new bin that I had been tinkering with during the week it fired right up. Now I'm just battling with a high idle.

I also have corrected most of the other issues I listed, it was just a matter of getting used to all the different tables and flags I can play with now

I'm going back and fourth with JohnL for ideas, and we're currently checking out the idea that it's not getting into idle mode.

Do you have any other ideas to add to that for me to check out?

What are the reference angles that you're referring too?

I have tried the pontiac bin, but it doesn't correct the idle issue

Thanks for any help you can offer tomcat

 

Binky have you set the base idle speed correctly?

With this code the IAC needs to be disconnected and the idle speed set at around 550rpm with the TB set screw. After a ECM reset after reconnect , the idle should be improved. Other things being OK.

Have you paid consideration to the canister purge equipment.. I don't believe our code would be operating it correctly, or at all, and may be causing a vac leak?

Be aware also, some SD codes require the use of a knock sensor unless the enable temp constant is set high, and the fault flag set off. code 43

Sean

 

The base idle vs volts tables? If it's those, I have em set to 675 across the board.

I used the IAC adjustment method outlined on the main TGO page, brought the idle down to 550 (was the lowest it would idle with the tune in its current state), plugged in the IAC and my idle went from 1100 where it was before to 1500 It's commanding the high idle though, it wanted me at about 140 counts...

No coal canister either, I pulled it out to clean up the engine bay when I was doing the engine swap. It's former vac lines are non existant now

I do have a fault 43, could that be commanding the high idle?

From toying with it some on friday night I am sometimes able to get the idle down to the 900 range after driving for a bit, but it still sits at 1500 now until I do some driving.

Other than the idle problem, it is running way stronger than it was with the MAF setup. No off idle stumble and much more responsive.

EDIT: Is there some automatic/manual transmission flag that I am missing?

The ecu and bin I am using have parameters for tcc and manual trans.

 

Check to see that its going into idle mode, it wont until all the transient steps are decayed.

Now having more manifold vacuum than normal on the chev can cause it to keep adding transient steps and not decaying them out.
I have found this problem a few times , also the min road speed for idle can cuase a issue if there is noise on the line also min tps can cause a issue- basically check if it is in idle mode - sounds like its not then work on what is required to get it into idle mode.

Initially I would consentrate on getting the VE tables and timing right then come back and look at the idle and the idle logic.

Code43 will only take timing out if it is the knock sensor.

 

As far as I have been able to tell, auto/manual is detected by the 'Park/Neutral' pin B10. Always low (gnd) is manual mode.

I am curious to know wether pin A7 (TCC lock for Auto) also provides the Shift-light output, that $5D/$12/$5A SD/MAP codes seem to have, but never utilise. (Until the latest VY GTS)

Some $32/$6E codes have a shift light code that works IIRC?

If only I had the ability to add a WB hac, and a snippet of V6 LPG code (to disable injectors and lock BLM's via pin C9 like factory LPG mode code) I would be over the moon. I love dual fuel.

Still so much to learn.

Sean

PS I use $5A (BMZL1790) code.. allows MAP with 8192baud datalogging from '165 spec ecms (unlike the 160 of the crippled '808), hence I changed out my 808 for an (actaully OLDER) '165 from ebay, and haven't looked back. Plus the '165 connects to Tunerpro and stays connected- never drops offline- the code must be tidy.

 

Looking back at my logs, it's telling me that the ECM thinks I'm in park/neutral even when it's in drive. So that's one thing for me to check. The wiring is correct as far as I can tell, so maybe the switch itself is bad.

I also have a constant"trans temp" flag checked. Some further research turned up that it's also used for "4th gear indication". Or OD indication probably. That is set at pin C8 on the 165, and C7 on the 808. I'm gonna try moving C8 to C7, and leaving C8 empty.

I may consider changing code to the 5a, but I want to master the 5d first. I'm getting lots of requests to help my friends get started with this stuff, so I'm trying to broaden my knowledge as much as I can

Thanks

 

Wiring trans temp to C7 is the correct thing to do.

Do you have complete wiring diagrams for a $5D/$5A configured 808/165? Do you need a set?

Sean

 

Yep, same pin(A7) for the shift-lite output.
It's in the code, but I can't imagine why they didn't use it.
Pin C9 is also used as an alternative "always high* P/N input.

 

I have a set, but I'm not sure of their completeness. Would you mind sending me your set? Email is quiktrp@cbcast.com

Thanks

 

Thanks for the diagrams

I have some other big plans for my car these upcoming couple weekends, but as soon as I get it all back together and make the wiring changes I'll post back the results.

Thanks guys