The article was good for people wanting to learn how to tune chips. I have one major problem with it though. For some reason they put a custom chip makers url and called him an expert. I have no problems with Craig or Sean. Craig IS the hardware guy. He is a good person, has great products at reasonable prices. IMO, he deserves all the accolades. Sean is cool to. He knows his stuff and does good work.

My beef is with the azzatochips BS. Why would the magazine have a DIY article and put a custom chip maker as a reference. It's like asking hyperjunk bout diy tuning. That kind of burns me up. The sad part is the "expert" that is doing mailorder chips. Everyone knows you can't HONESTLY tune through the mail. It's more of a scam than anything. To really tune, one needs info from the ALDL stream, wideband and some way to measure performance/mileage. It's IMPOSSIBLE to nail the a/f ratio if you don't hook up a wideband. We are not just talking about the actual ratio but the entire fuel curve. The worst part is the "custom" chip maker doesn't know much about tuning EFI. We all have seen him running 10.99 ET's with stock injectors. Even my 10yr old brother knows that stock injectors would be static. This guy has never honestly tuned WOT because.......
1. His injectors was at 100% duty cycle. That means you cannot adjust the fuel curve or amount because the injectors are opened the entire time (at WOT). No way around it.
2. He used so much WOT timing the engine was running against the knock sensor. You can't adjust the spark total or curve if the knock sensor is reducing what you commanded. For most high performance engines, the KS is useless because of things like valve train noise.


This is not intended to be a flame thread. I'm glad to see a diy article in a magazine. Just stating the FACTS. I hope any replies will be based on that. I can understand why the information doesn't err, flow from this board. It took me a long time to honestly learn how to tune. Maybe the guys with the tuning info hold it close because of people like ASSato chips.

 

Azzato chips... I think thats why ski_dwn_it is now banned from this site

 

The author looked to be a vette owner, so the coincidence is to be expected.

You expect Intregrity from magazines?. Look at the ads for when they're hiring, and the logic becomes apparent about a number of items.

Young English Major Grads., that like working on cars. In this day of policitally correctness, and crossing T's and dotting I's what would you expect from them?. Not to mention the advertisers *own* the magazines. DIY will never be covered fully and honestly, it just flies in the ointment of too many advertisers. There'll be some token coverage, just cause it is so popular, but that's all I'd expect from them.

I think writting for a mag should mean 10 years, of dirty finger nails, first and formost.

 

.... and needs to currently own a car that has more money into mods than it's worth.
Typical, I've given up on almost all "hot rod" magazines. Carcraft still has some good articles every once in a while. They usually do budget car work that really turns out nice and they go into detail on how to AVOID paying to much.
CHP and Hot Rod are just a bunch of pretty pictures of trailor queens. Yes they have there place and are nice to look at but I can honestly say that I've seen MORE trailor queen hot rods than I have REAL hot rods. Tell me if I'm wrong but aren't there more options than a carbed 350 .
Oh, and I'm REALLY tired of the stupid cars that have more into their paint than than parts! That's just evil.

 

Good lord, did they really have him as a reference? Now I know why I never personally subscribe to the mags that much. Good reading material for the restroom, though...

 

Other names were put forward (ie. Bruce, Alvin, Trax, Etc.). Only so much input can be assimilated I suppose. Good thing though is that the author actually DID do his own tuning. Hadn't done it at all before, so this was his first time. He had a 'starter' bin, but I walked him through the details of what to look for, how to log data, how to get rid of knock. Fueling wasn't perfect of course. Too bad he didn't have a wideband.

So, while Azzato was mentioned in the opening lines, that was the extent of the coverage. Don't think that Azzato did the tuning on this one, because the author did his own. In this way, the article was a fairly honest representation of DIY. I wanted to make sure of that.

 

Yup thats Jessie "Whattda mean static" Azzato. Don't forget he also adds a ton of toluene to make up for lack of injector.

dimented got it close... Most mags are good for only wiping your AZZ.

BW

 

ah, ok...

 

That is fine. In fact, I though it was great for the diy-prom community to be somewhat highlighted. The author did the right thing by contacting certain people and doing the work himself. But I was actually upset when I seen that azzato was even mentioned. Then, to call him an expert, that compelled me to respond. I think the truth was exposed above. He is no expert. I feel bad for the customers of his "service". He doesn't have a clue what the a/f ratios are, not through the mail!! How many people do you think is going to check out his site now? I'm sure there will be plenty of sheep. Bad work always comes back to get ya in the end.

Disgusting..............

 

U know, someone should post all his stupid ignorant posts(Like the one about static inj or the cam dowel cutting thru the cover) and then collect them all and post them on all the corvette forums under "Assato: Your TunerGod"

:-)

I for one think it would be funny

Sorry, he gets any recognition for his stupididty from that article, but still nice the DIY crowd got some recognition

later
Jeremy

 

I agre with everything posted here except :

Whats wrong with that

 

That would be cool. I think the truth should be exposed.
I remeber most of the dumb post he made. One of the last, he was selling his damaged engine. Oh yeah, this guy is an expert. The funny part is that he registered here as ghostman (or something). I didn't know it was him and told him how SDI's engine was damaged. Before I could find the post to show him, he was banned, again. Then I found out that was his pathetic a##. Trying to crawl back in here.........pathetic.


Here is a good example of how much tuning he really did. Words of wisdom from SDI.
The funny part is that 87_t/a has speed density and ran +6 MPH than Assato. Guess Tom better watch his backside.

 

One thing I definatly hated about his posts was it was alot of typing without much content. Looking for useful info in the stuff he wrote was like boiling down water and expecting something to be left over.

The worst had to be that MAF/injector PW thing. I noticed the very first day I started burning chips that when I changed the WOT fueling or the high MAP spark that the datalogged MAP readings would change due to changing the engines VE. Some simple hitting the books would have shown him that when he raised the fuel pressure the decrease in VE from being rich would show up on the MAF and pull the PWs down a tad. And now he burns chips and claims to know it all.

Hes gone and cant really defend himself so I wont say more but it jsut goes to show that there are lots of 'experts' out there. Im not an expert but Id rather do it myself then let any of them touch it.

 

thanx for the praise i dont get that alot.i didnt help Shawn West do that much of his tunning but i did help him with understanding alot of the functions.

I was not aware that azzato chips was in fact ski down it. thats very disheartening.

I was really pissed about the september issue. Check out the 3d gen in the back blackburns blues. theres a car i tuned. That car is gonna be run again in popular hot rodding really soon. at least ill get some credit there.

while i might due some chips for profit the price i charge is the same as hypetech and i spend aroun 6-10 days doing it part time at night. Gotta get a little something for my time you know???? but thats how it goes.

I just hope you guys as a group dont think poorly of me becuase i do tune for profit. its not a full time gig. i dont have a multi million dollar interest to protect.
I alway try to shae and help and pitch in. I am hoping that in the future if when i move to another company and i get moe time ill be ableto dive back into learning moe about code and assmbler in particular. would be nice to contribute on that level as well.

Anyways yeah it is dissapointing that azzato did get mentioned but thats all we can do i geuss.

 

He couldn't defend himself even if he was allowed to post here. Doesn't have a leg to stand on. But I agree to not bash someone. Maybe people that seen the CHP article will come here and read this. In turn, they will not get hood winked by azzato chips. That is my goal. My motivation is all the information he pillaged from us, even to copy chips. I think the point is made and I'll let it rest

 

That is one reason I respect you. It's not like you are some snake learning how to do the basics just to turn profit. At the same time I have not seen you do any mailorder crap. You also seem to be interested in the hardware end of things. Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe you remember me as KVU or 87400tpi? I helped start that bomb known as efituning.org......

 

I have never seen so many ostriches with their heads stuck in the sand. Just because YOU can't figure out how he makes his setup work, you call . You should try to learn. When you walk into a gym for the first time, do you get pointers from the smallest guy in the place? No, you find the biggest, because he's the one who knows how to get results. Ski_dwn_it has gotten down to a 10.7 et. That's WITH stock injectors and WITH MAF. But if you want to be so thickheaded as to continue to say it can't work, be my guest.

 

Looks like you have just read Jesses response to this post at corvetteforum.com. Your statement closely reflects what he posted there.

I'm, not taking sides, but I think you have both missed the point. I think most of the ill feelings here are because Jesse profits from DIY -EFI stuff he learned from some of these guys here.. Some of the long term members here have played a big part in making chip tuning possible for the rest of us and willingly shared that into for FREE.. They then get p!ssed when somene comes along, takes the results of their hard work and research, becomes an "expert" in 12 months and then SELLS it...

 

If people have a problem with him selling it, then by all means say it. Is his time not worth anything? He gives out a lot of help and info to anyone who asks. But to start saying he doesn't know what he's doing is ridiculous. The numbers back him up. Like I was getting at before, when I started my buildup I looked at what the fast guys were running. Even if something went against convention ie. small injectors, I listened. To me timeslips are the proof.

 

Hi Jesse, nice try. Everyone knows why your setup ran 10.7. You copied it off your buddy.And he ran a stock chip, I remember everything. Static injectors cannot control the fuel. Sure you can bump the pressure and tune like a caveman. That's what it boils down to, you are not controlling the fuel. Sorry, it's just the truth. Problem is that you never stopped to listen to others. Good thing considering you are ripping people off through the mail. Sleep good tonight

 

I don't think anyone is say he CAN'T do it, HE was saying it was as good as it could be without any tuning.

The main issue I see is that he never seemed to share what he had done to get there.

 

I'm not Jesse, though I DO have one of his chips. The Corvette Forum is a tight community, much like this one. If someone gets screwed, everyone knows about it real soon. I've seen nothing but positive testimonials from the CF members who have his chips. "He never stopped to listen to others"? Until you run mid 10's maybe you should listen to him...

 

Running tens doesn't mean anything. Do you understand what I said about him using his buddy's engine specs? His buddy that ran the same setup ran 10's on a stock chip. So if I use your train of thought then a stock chip is good enough. Either way you got ripped. What about the direct quote from him above? It's his words, he made one change and made 6 passes then didn't touch the chip again. That is his words. If you are smart enough then you'll listen to the truth and maybe learn something. In the end you might throw away you "custom" chip and do it right, yourself.

 

Corky was not running a stock chip. "If I'm smart enough" I won't even begin to touch that one.

 

Corky was Also using a 870' ECM. Now that intrigues me. I don't live too far from Corky so I will eventually run into him and probally Ski_dwn_it at Keystone Drag Strip.

 

Sorry, cracky was running a junk mailorder chip.My bad


You must not be too smart, cause I have one up on you.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1548054985


I'll give you one good example of SDI's lack of efi knowledge. He actually thinks you can run slower with too large of injectors.

 

you might be running 10's. but the effect of the bad tunning on the longevity of the engine will be the real outcome. ive heard tell that the guy who bought ski's old motor tore it down and found out that the rod journals had been literally pounded into ovals becuase the content of the fuel was mixed with so much toulene.

but then again what do i know.

when your engine doesnt last for more then 1 season dont come crying to us. we warned you.

 

You guys are really tearing me up. Why do you care if Jesse is doing chips for $$$. He invested his time to learn from others and did lots of trail and error tuning. And his chips do work well. The a/f ratio is not perfect and that is known going in. And it is a distance tune and is not perfect, that is also known from the start. But if you go to a dyno and get a A/F graph and send it back to him he retunes at no extra charge. If you change a cam or bolt on a different heads, he aslo retunes for no additonal charge. I have talked to him many times, asked many questions and he is always quick to answer. I do have 36lb injectors in my engine, and they are bigger than I need. But I wanted room to grow. I am not Jesse. And the reason I bought one of his chips is because I dont have the time to learn it myself. And he is willing to share what he has learned that works on our cars with others. But all I am saying is just because a guy has different ideas and opinons on how to do something doesn't mean you have to bash and ban him. Thats the point of these forums is to express different ideas and to help each other out.

 

I'm not running 10's and never said I was. Jesse is. "Heard tell" is nothing i would take to the bank.

 

OK reliable source.

 

Well you got suckered. for about $150 you could have done your own prom and then adjusted the injector size yourself. jezzz. but hey if you in southern michigan look me up.

 

What on earth are you talking about?

 

You are here to start trouble. I have contacted Rbob. You will be banned soon. Have a nice time with your detuned chip.

 

Don't worry, you'll be banned from CF too. Have a nice time with your slow car. Let us know when you "decide" to hit 11's

 

You guys are still killing me. Its like watching children fighting over nothing. I guess I'm going back to where the grown-ups play. The CF and NSXPRIME.COM is where the adults play, there's no fighting like children over there.

 

The problems I saw with how he did things was that he just got alot of nice high power parts, ran some good times, and used that as proof that he knew what he was doing. Hed post datalogs here and it was obvious that his injectors where static and his MAF was completly pegged, yet he never really bothered to change any of that. Despite all that and the fact that he never went ahead and did things right he then goes off and burns chips for other people.

An engine cant last forever if its underfueled and has too much timing and that seems to be his idea for a fast setup. There was a guy awhile back who parked a nice 383 under a stock tbi with a stock ecm and was surprised when detonation blew out the side of the cylinder wall and ruined the motor. Good proof to anyone that you need to have adiquate saftey margines all around or itll break.

 

*** this is why More Headway into Prom Burning/Tunning Hasn't Been Made. People If we just learn form each other and colaborate and work togeather and think outside the box great accivemnts could be made. I am not Taking Sides and saying or resort to name calling but remember we all drive Bowties, this argument reminds me of the mustang, camaro owners Fighting. Now We are Picking on our own Kind. Where is the Principle to break this up.

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion.

The only way to get a Tune Correct is to Scan and tune Scan and tune Not Mail Order.

Just my .02

 

There was no fighting over here untill that fool decided to act up. I'm not going to respond to this thread any more. Last think I need is a bunch of ******* coming over here because of me. I don't want to make a mess on this forum, it's not fair to the moderators. As you read, I'm not trying to fight over at the corvette forum..I think everyone should just stop, drop and forget. It's leading nowhere. If you guys like the chip then fine. Don't come over here just to start trouble.

 

Good call 11sORbust

 

Ah yes, name calling. The last resort.

 

For the love of ***, lock this stupid thing or delete it, something....

Moderator?

 

lol, the vette forums don't arguee with SDI because they don't know any better. It started with a core group of non-profit DIYers that tend to "hang out" HERE!!! What goes on over in the corvette forums is a bunch of older guys that don't know their eprom from there elbow. I'm sorry to all of the vette owners but thirdgen.org has given WAY more to the tuners of this community than any other website out there.
I hear countless people telling me how over the head we are and that we are experts. Face it, we ARE elite in the prom burning world, Craig Moates, Grumpy, RBob, the list goes on and what do they have? They've got 1 good mail order tuner and it isn't SDI (hint, starts with an F and it's in every vette owners sig).
SDI has a slower car than similar setups, blows up an engine and runs fuel that nobody else should require for 11's!!! That isn't an expert, that's a person that doesn't know when to invest in larger injectors because he can't do the damn math.
Face it, SDI shouldn't get any respect from ANYBODY. Giving somebody a stock chip with minor tweaks that have no proof on ET performance is a rip off no matter how you chew it. Then the person that got ripped off wants to justify to himself that it was a good investment. It happens all the time. To much plecebo and NO HIS DAMN CAR ISN'T IMPRESSIVE. Tell the grand national guys that are running 9's with help from a member of this board that he wasted his money on those large injectors :lala: . If you dare tell me I'm wrong I'm going to have to reach though the monitor and bitch slap you.
I think I'm going to stop venting now. SDI just makes my blood boil thinking about all the projects guys like him prevent getting into the public domain. I myself have held back some stuff I've done because I've seen my hard work being sold on ebay. For me it just isn't worth giving if it's a one way street. I found my friends and we help each other out. I'm suprised Grumpy even released his source code! :hail: that takes guts and a strong character (not just having an 11 second vette ).
Now this thread can be locked and if the mods want to put me on probation so be it. I just can't let evil prevail .