Why bother, close is good enough
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Why bother, close is good enough
It's been a constant theme alot of people preach, well so and so went fast with his so and so. Or this system works, so what's better about another one. Or you need an aftermarket one to really maintain fuel control. The list just goes on and on.
Well here's a data log that shows why Correct pays. It was in part generated by a comment about well so and so intercooler's work on 9 sec cars so that should be OK, for anything on the street. Well, in theory the I/C I'm running should support 1,000 HP which is way the heck more then I'll ever make. But it offers mass for thermal flywheeling, huge frontal area, etc, etc.
Now about coding and going quick. For anyone that driven one of my tunes, they'll tell you there're pretty good.
It takes resolution, and effort to get that right, but the rewards are just all sorts of giggles.
Now running some modified 60 code this is the results:
***********
Still building the calibration, but we're up to 20 PSI, and a momentary 100 TPS.
19d timing, still a lil lean, 20 PSI, 91 octane, no trace of tickling the knock sensor.
Still no Alky Injection.
MAT still dropped 20dF during the run. In case anyone's missed it look at the MATs, closely. Remember what I was saying about the thermal flywheeling effect of the Intercooler?. See how the MAT stays high, and then as the boost starts to build the temps DROP!. That's when the turbo is first starting to really compress the air, and generating heat, notice that the temp drops?. And then continues to drop as speed builds?. The Cotton's with it's huge frontal area, exposes ALOT of the heat exchanger to the moving air, something a smaller unit simply can't do. A large thin one that has alot of frontal area, can make up for a slightly poorer design, by it having alot of frontal area.
When you get done with all your calculations, and guesses it's what goes on in the car that matters. Unless of course you can accurately model the heat flywheeling, VS vs frontal area, etc, etc, etc..
No power braking, 0-80, 8 secs., 2/3 throttle shifting at 4,000 RPM, 20 PSI, and not even begining to work the engine yet.
41 dF
28°F Humidity
Pressure: 29.97
Wind: From the Southwest at 13 mph
TimeStamp: 11/29/2004 - 08:02:51
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:05 0 750 56 50 0 168 95 19 0 1.53 14.7 13.4
19:05 0 725 56 50 2 168 95 19 0 1.53 14.7 13.4
19:05 0 775 61 52 9 168 95 22 0 1.53 14.7 13.3
19:05 0 825 81 59 20 168 95 21 0 1.89 14.7 13.3
19:05 0 900 97 64 27 168 95 20 0 2.56 13.2 13.2
19:05 0 1175 96 83 31 168 95 21 0 3.27 12.7 18
19:05 0 1350 96 86 33 168 95 22 0 3.33 12.7 11.6
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:06 0 1550 96 88 36 168 95 24 0 3.42 12.5 10.5
19:06 0 1825 101 90 59 168 95 27 0 3.63 12.5 10.7
19:06 0 2000 104 90 78 168 95 27 0 3.75 12.5 10.1
19:06 0 2025 105 88 95 168 95 28 0 3.78 12.5 10.3
19:06 3 2075 106 87 100 168 95 28 0 3.75 12.5 10.5
19:06 3 2125 108 86 100 168 95 28 0 3.69 12.5 10.3
19:06 3 2175 110 84 100 168 95 28 0 3.72 12.5 10.8
19:06 3 2225 111 84 100 168 86 29 0 3.72 12.5 11.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:07 9 2400 118 79 100 168 86 30 0 3.63 12.5 12.0
19:07 14 2575 125 81 100 168 86 29 0 4.06 12.5 12.6
19:07 12 2625 129 82 100 168 86 28 0 4.18 12.5 12.6
19:07 12 2725 133 83 97 168 86 28 0 4.33 12.5 12.6
19:07 16 2800 137 84 95 168 86 28 0 4.52 12.5 12.3
19:07 16 2875 142 83 95 168 86 27 0 4.73 12.5 12.3
19:07 19 3075 155 82 95 168 86 26 0 5.10 12.5 13.0
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:08 17 3200 164 82 95 168 86 25 0 5.31 12.5 12.6
19:08 20 3300 175 81 94 168 86 24 0 5.55 12.5 12.8
19:08 23 3575 200 80 90 168 77 24 0 6.32 12.5 13.0
19:08 24 3725 212 80 87 168 77 23 0 6.71 12.5 13.7
19:08 24 3900 225 80 85 168 77 21 0 7.26 12.5 13.8
19:08 25 4050 233 80 80 168 77 20 0 7.36 12.5 14.0
19:08 28 4250 237 80 77 168 77 19 0 7.54 12.5 13.3
19:08 34 4150 239 80 76 168 77 19 0 7.66 12.5 13.2
19:08 31 4000 239 80 71 168 77 19 0 7.63 12.5 13.7
19:08 42 4025 238 80 70 168 77 19 0 7.63 12.5 13.6
19:08 47 4100 236 80 66 168 77 19 0 7.54 12.5 13.4
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:09 51 4175 233 80 63 168 77 19 0 7.57 12.5 13.2
19:09 49 4150 229 80 59 168 77 20 0 7.45 12.5 13.3
19:09 49 4075 224 80 55 168 77 21 0 7.23 12.5 14.1
19:09 49 4100 223 80 55 168 77 21 0 7.42 12.5 13.6
19:09 48 4050 220 80 55 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.8
19:09 48 4050 219 80 55 168 68 22 0 7.20 12.5 13.5
19:09 47 3975 219 80 56 168 68 22 0 7.29 12.5 13.4
19:09 42 3875 219 80 57 168 68 22 0 7.32 12.5 13.3
19:09 44 3950 219 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.32 12.5 13.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:10 44 3950 220 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.2
19:10 45 4000 220 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.3
19:10 47 4050 223 80 61 168 68 21 0 7.39 12.5 13.1
19:10 48 4050 224 80 62 168 68 21 0 7.48 12.5 13.4
19:10 49 4100 227 80 63 168 68 21 0 7.60 12.5 13.3
19:10 50 4150 229 80 65 168 68 20 0 7.63 12.5 13.5
19:10 51 4175 230 80 65 168 68 20 0 7.72 12.5 13.5
19:10 52 4225 234 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.5
19:10 53 4250 236 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.6
19:10 53 4275 237 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:12 67 3950 237 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.3
19:12 68 3950 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.5
19:12 68 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.2
19:12 68 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.0
19:12 69 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 13.0
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:13 70 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 13.4
19:13 71 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.0
19:13 71 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.1
19:13 72 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 8.00 12.5 13.0
19:13 72 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 12.7
19:13 74 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 74 4075 239 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:13 74 4100 239 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 74 4100 241 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 75 4100 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:13 76 4150 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.00 12.5 13.4
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:14 76 4150 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:14 77 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.6
19:14 78 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 12.9
19:14 79 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 79 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.9 16
19:14 80 4200 243 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 80 4225 243 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.0
19:14 81 4225 243 80 67 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 81 4225 241 80 64 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:14 82 4250 238 80 61 167 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 12.7
19:14 83 4225 228 80 58 167 68 19 0 7.72 12.5 12.7
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
Well here's a data log that shows why Correct pays. It was in part generated by a comment about well so and so intercooler's work on 9 sec cars so that should be OK, for anything on the street. Well, in theory the I/C I'm running should support 1,000 HP which is way the heck more then I'll ever make. But it offers mass for thermal flywheeling, huge frontal area, etc, etc.
Now about coding and going quick. For anyone that driven one of my tunes, they'll tell you there're pretty good.
It takes resolution, and effort to get that right, but the rewards are just all sorts of giggles.
Now running some modified 60 code this is the results:
***********
Still building the calibration, but we're up to 20 PSI, and a momentary 100 TPS.
19d timing, still a lil lean, 20 PSI, 91 octane, no trace of tickling the knock sensor.
Still no Alky Injection.
MAT still dropped 20dF during the run. In case anyone's missed it look at the MATs, closely. Remember what I was saying about the thermal flywheeling effect of the Intercooler?. See how the MAT stays high, and then as the boost starts to build the temps DROP!. That's when the turbo is first starting to really compress the air, and generating heat, notice that the temp drops?. And then continues to drop as speed builds?. The Cotton's with it's huge frontal area, exposes ALOT of the heat exchanger to the moving air, something a smaller unit simply can't do. A large thin one that has alot of frontal area, can make up for a slightly poorer design, by it having alot of frontal area.
When you get done with all your calculations, and guesses it's what goes on in the car that matters. Unless of course you can accurately model the heat flywheeling, VS vs frontal area, etc, etc, etc..
No power braking, 0-80, 8 secs., 2/3 throttle shifting at 4,000 RPM, 20 PSI, and not even begining to work the engine yet.
41 dF
28°F Humidity
Pressure: 29.97
Wind: From the Southwest at 13 mph
TimeStamp: 11/29/2004 - 08:02:51
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:05 0 750 56 50 0 168 95 19 0 1.53 14.7 13.4
19:05 0 725 56 50 2 168 95 19 0 1.53 14.7 13.4
19:05 0 775 61 52 9 168 95 22 0 1.53 14.7 13.3
19:05 0 825 81 59 20 168 95 21 0 1.89 14.7 13.3
19:05 0 900 97 64 27 168 95 20 0 2.56 13.2 13.2
19:05 0 1175 96 83 31 168 95 21 0 3.27 12.7 18
19:05 0 1350 96 86 33 168 95 22 0 3.33 12.7 11.6
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:06 0 1550 96 88 36 168 95 24 0 3.42 12.5 10.5
19:06 0 1825 101 90 59 168 95 27 0 3.63 12.5 10.7
19:06 0 2000 104 90 78 168 95 27 0 3.75 12.5 10.1
19:06 0 2025 105 88 95 168 95 28 0 3.78 12.5 10.3
19:06 3 2075 106 87 100 168 95 28 0 3.75 12.5 10.5
19:06 3 2125 108 86 100 168 95 28 0 3.69 12.5 10.3
19:06 3 2175 110 84 100 168 95 28 0 3.72 12.5 10.8
19:06 3 2225 111 84 100 168 86 29 0 3.72 12.5 11.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:07 9 2400 118 79 100 168 86 30 0 3.63 12.5 12.0
19:07 14 2575 125 81 100 168 86 29 0 4.06 12.5 12.6
19:07 12 2625 129 82 100 168 86 28 0 4.18 12.5 12.6
19:07 12 2725 133 83 97 168 86 28 0 4.33 12.5 12.6
19:07 16 2800 137 84 95 168 86 28 0 4.52 12.5 12.3
19:07 16 2875 142 83 95 168 86 27 0 4.73 12.5 12.3
19:07 19 3075 155 82 95 168 86 26 0 5.10 12.5 13.0
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:08 17 3200 164 82 95 168 86 25 0 5.31 12.5 12.6
19:08 20 3300 175 81 94 168 86 24 0 5.55 12.5 12.8
19:08 23 3575 200 80 90 168 77 24 0 6.32 12.5 13.0
19:08 24 3725 212 80 87 168 77 23 0 6.71 12.5 13.7
19:08 24 3900 225 80 85 168 77 21 0 7.26 12.5 13.8
19:08 25 4050 233 80 80 168 77 20 0 7.36 12.5 14.0
19:08 28 4250 237 80 77 168 77 19 0 7.54 12.5 13.3
19:08 34 4150 239 80 76 168 77 19 0 7.66 12.5 13.2
19:08 31 4000 239 80 71 168 77 19 0 7.63 12.5 13.7
19:08 42 4025 238 80 70 168 77 19 0 7.63 12.5 13.6
19:08 47 4100 236 80 66 168 77 19 0 7.54 12.5 13.4
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:09 51 4175 233 80 63 168 77 19 0 7.57 12.5 13.2
19:09 49 4150 229 80 59 168 77 20 0 7.45 12.5 13.3
19:09 49 4075 224 80 55 168 77 21 0 7.23 12.5 14.1
19:09 49 4100 223 80 55 168 77 21 0 7.42 12.5 13.6
19:09 48 4050 220 80 55 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.8
19:09 48 4050 219 80 55 168 68 22 0 7.20 12.5 13.5
19:09 47 3975 219 80 56 168 68 22 0 7.29 12.5 13.4
19:09 42 3875 219 80 57 168 68 22 0 7.32 12.5 13.3
19:09 44 3950 219 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.32 12.5 13.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:10 44 3950 220 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.2
19:10 45 4000 220 80 59 168 68 22 0 7.42 12.5 13.3
19:10 47 4050 223 80 61 168 68 21 0 7.39 12.5 13.1
19:10 48 4050 224 80 62 168 68 21 0 7.48 12.5 13.4
19:10 49 4100 227 80 63 168 68 21 0 7.60 12.5 13.3
19:10 50 4150 229 80 65 168 68 20 0 7.63 12.5 13.5
19:10 51 4175 230 80 65 168 68 20 0 7.72 12.5 13.5
19:10 52 4225 234 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.5
19:10 53 4250 236 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.6
19:10 53 4275 237 80 67 168 68 19 0 7.81 12.5 13.1
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:12 67 3950 237 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.3
19:12 68 3950 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.5
19:12 68 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.2
19:12 68 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.0
19:12 69 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 13.0
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:13 70 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 13.4
19:13 71 4000 238 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.0
19:13 71 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.90 12.5 13.1
19:13 72 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 8.00 12.5 13.0
19:13 72 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 12.7
19:13 74 4050 239 80 68 168 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 74 4075 239 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:13 74 4100 239 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 74 4100 241 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:13 75 4100 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:13 76 4150 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.00 12.5 13.4
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
19:14 76 4150 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.5
19:14 77 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.6
19:14 78 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 12.9
19:14 79 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 79 4175 242 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.9 16
19:14 80 4200 243 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 80 4225 243 80 68 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.0
19:14 81 4225 243 80 67 167 68 19 0 8.06 12.5 13.1
19:14 81 4225 241 80 64 167 68 19 0 8.03 12.5 13.1
19:14 82 4250 238 80 61 167 68 19 0 7.94 12.5 12.7
19:14 83 4225 228 80 58 167 68 19 0 7.72 12.5 12.7
Run Mph Rpm Map VE% Tps CTS MAT Sa Rt sPW AFR rrWB
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,180
Likes: 3
From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Threre's no doubt if you throw darts to get close, you'll have to live with the results. Good design always pays off.
Looks like it's going to be a killer when you get to pushing it to the limit. Nice cooling with 20# on it, IMO even standing still 95 doesnt seem bad to me.
I was curious as to why the 9 D steps in your MAT? seems "blocky" and might benifit from expanding the resolution by shifting ther values up. (maybe you've done that already)
Or is that the actual temp changes are going 9 degrees that quickly?
Oh yea, you forgot "partly cloudy".
Looks like it's going to be a killer when you get to pushing it to the limit. Nice cooling with 20# on it, IMO even standing still 95 doesnt seem bad to me.
I was curious as to why the 9 D steps in your MAT? seems "blocky" and might benifit from expanding the resolution by shifting ther values up. (maybe you've done that already)
Or is that the actual temp changes are going 9 degrees that quickly?
Oh yea, you forgot "partly cloudy".
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by JP86SS
Looks like it's going to be a killer when you get to pushing it to the limit. Nice cooling with 20# on it, IMO even standing still 95 doesnt seem bad to me.
I was curious as to why the 9 D steps in your MAT? seems "blocky" and might benifit from expanding the resolution by shifting ther values up. (maybe you've done that already)
Or is that the actual temp changes are going 9 degrees that quickly?
Oh yea, you forgot "partly cloudy".
Looks like it's going to be a killer when you get to pushing it to the limit. Nice cooling with 20# on it, IMO even standing still 95 doesnt seem bad to me.
I was curious as to why the 9 D steps in your MAT? seems "blocky" and might benifit from expanding the resolution by shifting ther values up. (maybe you've done that already)
Or is that the actual temp changes are going 9 degrees that quickly?
Oh yea, you forgot "partly cloudy".
I'm not sure about the MAT thing. I was going to say it was because the it runs in a *slow* loop part of the code. I'll have to play with that some and see what the deal is.
OK, "partly cloudy".
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From: Chasing Electrons
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Originally posted by Grumpy
I'm not sure about the MAT thing. I was going to say it was because the it runs in a *slow* loop part of the code. I'll have to play with that some and see what the deal is.
OK, "partly cloudy".
I'm not sure about the MAT thing. I was going to say it was because the it runs in a *slow* loop part of the code. I'll have to play with that some and see what the deal is.
OK, "partly cloudy".
RBob.
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