Timing issues
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
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From: Memphis, TN / Macon, GA
Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 with ported & polished vortech heads and a 269 cam.
Transmission: 700R4 (w/ shift kit) and 2000 stall TC
Timing issues
I've done lots of searching and readin, but most problems seem to be specific to the application, so here is mine:
Car was a stock LB9, but i installed a 350 (L98) block and used the stock LB9 heads (58cc 1.84/1.5). The cam is now a .495/.503, 218/224 @50, with 112'sep. I have a thick gasket to help reduce the compression some, but i haven't tested it. (Anyone know what compression that might produce?) The intake / exhaust manifold, stall are all stock. At 6' BTDC she's hard to start and won't rev above 1500 (and dies when you get it over 1200). I moved the distributor to about 12' which it likes and i am using the stock LB9 SA tables. The L98 tables it acts more sluggish, but with the initial distributor setting at 6' it runs pretty good. If I set the initial setting to 12', it's ok, but will be sluggish at medium throttle / load. It acts like someone is holding the brake down. letting off the gas some actually gives it more power / acceleration, but slower accel. Also, if she gets up above 200rpm, she runs pretty good up to about 3500rpm then shifts, but there's no real acceleration. When it shifts it will give you whiplash, but starts to feel like i'm riding the breaks almost immediately after catching. I may have a bad Torque Converter, but that doesn't change the fact that my timing seems to be killing my power. Please help. I will post the SA tables.
My initial distributor is set to 11.95, Spark Advance Max 41.84, Spark Advance Base Temp corr Bias 20.04,
Car was a stock LB9, but i installed a 350 (L98) block and used the stock LB9 heads (58cc 1.84/1.5). The cam is now a .495/.503, 218/224 @50, with 112'sep. I have a thick gasket to help reduce the compression some, but i haven't tested it. (Anyone know what compression that might produce?) The intake / exhaust manifold, stall are all stock. At 6' BTDC she's hard to start and won't rev above 1500 (and dies when you get it over 1200). I moved the distributor to about 12' which it likes and i am using the stock LB9 SA tables. The L98 tables it acts more sluggish, but with the initial distributor setting at 6' it runs pretty good. If I set the initial setting to 12', it's ok, but will be sluggish at medium throttle / load. It acts like someone is holding the brake down. letting off the gas some actually gives it more power / acceleration, but slower accel. Also, if she gets up above 200rpm, she runs pretty good up to about 3500rpm then shifts, but there's no real acceleration. When it shifts it will give you whiplash, but starts to feel like i'm riding the breaks almost immediately after catching. I may have a bad Torque Converter, but that doesn't change the fact that my timing seems to be killing my power. Please help. I will post the SA tables.
My initial distributor is set to 11.95, Spark Advance Max 41.84, Spark Advance Base Temp corr Bias 20.04,
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN / Macon, GA
Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 with ported & polished vortech heads and a 269 cam.
Transmission: 700R4 (w/ shift kit) and 2000 stall TC
SA temp correction vs load vs temp
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 176
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From: Folsom, Ca
Car: '73 Chevy Blazer
Engine: BBC - 408
Transmission: SM465
It acts like someone is holding the brake down. letting off the gas some actually gives it more power / acceleration, but slower accel.
That what mine feels like when I forget to reconnect the timing wire on the distributor after setting initial timing.
That sounds like your distributor wire is not connected or the code doesn't know it has a timing controllable ignition. I forget what this table is called at the moment.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN / Macon, GA
Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 with ported & polished vortech heads and a 269 cam.
Transmission: 700R4 (w/ shift kit) and 2000 stall TC
When my EST cable is disconnected, the tach doesn't work. Mine is working. Thanks though.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 888
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From: Oswego, IL
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 350ci SBC
Transmission: 700R4
What are you running MAF, MAP, TBI?? HAve you done any tuning to the fuel? Do you have any scan data of the problem... It could be more than just timing causing your problem!!!
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN / Macon, GA
Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 with ported & polished vortech heads and a 269 cam.
Transmission: 700R4 (w/ shift kit) and 2000 stall TC
TPI, MAP (SD), I have run about 6 passes through the VE tables, and they run close to 128 now. The problem seems to occur mostly at lower RPMs with modorate load (65 - 80kpa). I don't have a current data log (plan on building one tomorrow), but I just installed a new chip with my VE tables, and using the settings from the S_AUJP. She likes those settings. I need to check a few things out tomorrow (maybe installed my new injectors too) then do some logging. When I get the logs done, i'll post them up here.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 466
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From: Bakersfield
Car: 1985 IROC-Z
Engine: 1989 350 4 bolt roller block
Transmission: ProBuilt 700R4 Road Race with Edge 9.5" 2800 stall lockup converter
Are you still running the 305 injectors? If so, you will need to change them to 24# injectors (minimum) to support that cam. Then again, the 22# injectors will be fine with those heads since you will never be able to use anywhere near all that cam with those heads. That cam should love 12-16 degrees of initial timing.
Here are a few suggestions that you should consider if this car is not your daily driver and can sit for a while:
1. Get a good set of headers and be sure to put a 3" cat back system on the car. You will notice a much harder pull above 4500. Also, my exhaust tone quieted down some with the installation of headers.
2. Get a good set of aftermarket heads for the car. That cam should pull 6 grand with no problem, your current heads are probably dead at 4000-4500 with a 350.
3. Add an induction system that will match the rpm level of your camshaft and the flow of your new heads. Something along the lines of the Edelbrock base manifold and runners (which flow good but are a royal pain) Or the Accel Street Ram or Super Ram. The Super Ram is good for 6500 but at the cost of some low end compared to the other two mentioned induction systems which are only good to 5500 without porting.
4. Now burn your chip!!!!!
5. If you are planning on running this pretty much at the track and around town, go with a 9.5" 3500 rpm stall converter with lockup. If you want some canyon carving ability still in the car and have 3.42 or lower gears in the rear, go with a 2500-2800 rpm unit. BTW, if you decide to run the 16 degree initial advance all the time for the top end pull, definitely go with the higher stall as it will make up for the low end you will be losing as a result.
This is all IMHO of course.
Here are a few suggestions that you should consider if this car is not your daily driver and can sit for a while:
1. Get a good set of headers and be sure to put a 3" cat back system on the car. You will notice a much harder pull above 4500. Also, my exhaust tone quieted down some with the installation of headers.
2. Get a good set of aftermarket heads for the car. That cam should pull 6 grand with no problem, your current heads are probably dead at 4000-4500 with a 350.
3. Add an induction system that will match the rpm level of your camshaft and the flow of your new heads. Something along the lines of the Edelbrock base manifold and runners (which flow good but are a royal pain) Or the Accel Street Ram or Super Ram. The Super Ram is good for 6500 but at the cost of some low end compared to the other two mentioned induction systems which are only good to 5500 without porting.
4. Now burn your chip!!!!!
5. If you are planning on running this pretty much at the track and around town, go with a 9.5" 3500 rpm stall converter with lockup. If you want some canyon carving ability still in the car and have 3.42 or lower gears in the rear, go with a 2500-2800 rpm unit. BTW, if you decide to run the 16 degree initial advance all the time for the top end pull, definitely go with the higher stall as it will make up for the low end you will be losing as a result.
This is all IMHO of course.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Memphis, TN / Macon, GA
Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 with ported & polished vortech heads and a 269 cam.
Transmission: 700R4 (w/ shift kit) and 2000 stall TC
FOR NOW, i'm staying with the 305 heads. It's mostly a momey issue. I want to do the headers and 3" cat back system which is next on the plan, but the car has been sitting in the driveway for almost 2 years and the wife is a little unhappy with that. I am pretty sure i'm going to have to get the stall, but i think i'm going to go with a 2500 stall. It's more of a round town / track kind of car. If it's not a problem, i'll stick with the initial 12' of timing, but i'd rather that be set int the computer (makes following the setup easier from the outside). As for the induction, i was going for the stock TPI look, but i'm going to port the intake, plenum, and runners (possibly replacing the runners). I have a set of 24lb/hr injecftors sitting in the carport, these have been flow matched and tested by Rich at Cruzing Performance. they were supposed to be installed on Sturday, but my Grandmother passed away (also the delay in the log files).
The newest chip I burned based on the S_AUJP setup, the car LOVES. That's the greatest chip setup ever. I have a little studder in low RPMs when she's not warmed up good, but it seems to go away once warm. Hopefully i'll get the new injectors in soon and get my TC ordered and installed soon. I also need to go with a 3.08 or 3.27 rear. The 2.73 is just a little too sluggish 9could be my crappy TC).
The newest chip I burned based on the S_AUJP setup, the car LOVES. That's the greatest chip setup ever. I have a little studder in low RPMs when she's not warmed up good, but it seems to go away once warm. Hopefully i'll get the new injectors in soon and get my TC ordered and installed soon. I also need to go with a 3.08 or 3.27 rear. The 2.73 is just a little too sluggish 9could be my crappy TC).
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