i will be tryin to start a rough tune while im getting parts togather and porting heads this will be a rough tune for break in and make it to work and back but id like to get it as close as possible since i dont have laptop to datalog yet but will eventually....i know this wont be possibly to get right on w/ out dataloggin but thought i would give it a try. never tuned before obviously so i made a .txt document of what i want and what i will put on it....i have read the stickies before u tell me to go there and i will be using those for reference also just thought i would post the stuff here to see what u guys think i should start w/ and i will focus on learning that first then i will move to next step etc.. etc... i think this would be easiest for me so i dont start in wrong place then do somethin that effects somethin and have to go back if that makes since. but i assume the egr thing will be first thing and i belive i can do away w/ it and its timing adjustment by just turning on temp and mph all the way up and unsetting the code in flags. and i already have a topic goin about the patches and how to edit them etc...so if thats the next best place to start let me know ill focus there to learn first. but w/ out further ado here it is

things to tune .bin for 1228746 $61 for auto tranny

-lt1 cam (93 vette .450 .450 int/ext
-home ported 081 heads
-edelbrock tbi intake
-headman long tube headers
-ultimate tbi mods
-possibly bigger injectors (if needed)
-more fuel pressure (if needed)
-180 degree thermostat
-tci shift kit
-remove smog injection

-disable egr w/ patch so egr timing does not apply
-disable forced knock test (dont understand this much so only if not needed or bad to have)
-adjustable fan turn on temp.
-rpm limiter at 5000 rpm possibly a hair higher ( want the shift point at 5000 instead of 4500)

also need this tunned for daily driving all year round and for gas mileage/power a lil of both worlds

and im not asking for a bin made or to tell me which way to adjust unless u want to i just wanna know the first couple of things to work on and possibly where i find them labeled in tuner pro to edit and i will research on how to do it and where to take it. if u guys dont think this is and unreasonable thing to ask and u do wanna help i thank u...if it was out of line i appologize and will try and get it on my own, its just that im getting in so over my head i feel like it may be best to send out to tbichips.com for a chip even though i would much rather learn myself for the knowleadge and ability to dial in and tweak to my wishes.

John

 

ha ha i just read the ve table 1 and 2 in the ecm specific section and understand sort of how the adders work...im so happy this is the first thing ive been able to really take in. but what about if the rpm is at like 900 and 15% map then does it go to the closest values or round up or down?? just thought id get this question outta the way and tell u guys i finally kinda got somethin but i know theres alot more to this like tps and such and i dont know what way to take this to increase/decrease blm but i think this will come in handy w/ all the stuff im doin. sorry to but in on my own thread and i still really want those questions answered just thouht id put this one in my thread instead of starting a whole bunch of em. and to let u guys know i just took my first step in the right direction no biggie for u guys but a big one for me
thanks
John

 

no help on either post?? i know the first one was very generalized but i wasnt asking you to burn one or anything in case u all took it the wrong way just wanting to know where to start....what about the question on VE ive read the stickies just wondering what happens on the points in between the values in the table?

 

Neither.

The ECM uses a method called "linear interpolation" when dealing with numbers that fall between table entries. It's a more precise method than rounding.

One of many explainations found by a quick google search:
http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~dommelen/cou...0/aids/intpol/

 

It does this when there are points on either side... 15kpa MAP doesn't have a point so the last cell is used. The RPM 900rpm IS interpolated from the 800 and 1000rpm cells but not the MAP. It's the same as 10000rpm, it uses the last table entry of 6375rpm (255*25=6375, not 6400 ).
As for the adder, the last line in the VE #1 main table at 3200rpm is used for everything above. So that "slope" based on MAP axis is the same from every RPM up. It's really not too bad because you really shouldn't be cruising above 3200rpm Either decel or PE. If you're cruising at 3200rpm UPSHIFT
Even if you don't there's still closed loop which will quickly adapt.
Specific questions get specific answers. Asking general questions gets no answers because it's a waste of time.

 

ill have to re read your explaniation a couple of times to really grasp it but i appreciate the response and it will help when it comes to VE tunning for part throttle/ cruise i assume...

as for my first question i cant think of how to reword it i wasnt asking for a chip i was just wanting a good starting point or two to work on so i can get a decent tune for break in for the cam and driving a couple of miles to and from work till i can datalog and really dial it in. thats all, cause all this is confusing and i dont really know whats the best place to start w/ out dataloggin i know if i had a log a good place would be to start on VE to try and get my BLM close to 128 then go to spark and im lost really from there, at the moment im tryin to read about PE and grasp a lil of that but dont understand as of yet. i dont know if those things would be a good place to start w/ out a log and if so what way to adjust it to get running decent (of course not right on) i really need someone to take me under their wing but i know that wouldnt happen cause most have to figure it out on their own but i dont know if i just have a deficit or somethin but i can reread the stickies 10 times and still not really fully get it.

oh yeah and just an update on the cam. IM SOOOO PISSED i was winning the bid on a 93 lt1 vette cam till the last min. no kidding 1 min of the auction then got snipped and outbid man i wanna kill someone. it was perfect had a mild duration and .450/.450 lift and even the small dowl pin since its a pre 94.

 

Here's a slightly better explaination of linear interpolation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_interpolation



You don't really plan on spending any time at 15 KPa, do you?

 

Dowel pin is no concern; you can easily replace them, press the long pin further in, or cut the long pin down to a shorter length.

The stock LT1 cam is pretty mild, especially if you've got a 350.

I'd probably try running the car with a stock bin for your engine displacement and transmission, and the stock injectors that match. That'd give you a chance to figure out how to datalog, and you could then make small changes at your own pace so as to get a feel for things.

 

okay then check me on this one then so i can see if i understand this right here goes...

lets say i wanna know what the VE for 900 rpm at 40 MAP but all im givin is 800rpm at 40 = 41.41 VE and 1200 rpm at 40 = 42.97 VE

would my answer be 900 rpm at 40 = 41.8 ??? i hope so thats how i took it.

what about if i want to find out lets say 900 rpm at 35 MAP using the same ones as above??? or do i even need to know how to figure out either one or am i just learning some math..lol...

thanks
John

 

well i just read and reread and reread the first explanation lol before i hit refresh oh well i think i got it now anyway and i think i just answered my other question about a map that dosent show up when reading jon's post i just go w/ the map value before that...

r u sayin i should tune my car completly stock or r u sayin w/ just the cam in there??? i dont quite follow?

and just for info since i didnt include it i have a 305 so that should be a decent cam choice and one that saves some cash and i have a 700 r4 auto tranny sorry for the confusion i shoulda mentioned it to begin w/ instead of just listing my bin but all this will be goin on my 305 and tunning w/ what ever .bin name i want i guess but ill probably use what ever my .bin name is for my chip but i wont know till i get the ride back cause its still in the shop waiting on the rearend to get here from jasper but i should have it by this time next week.

and just an update i got the heads in yesterday and im gonna try and take em to the machine shop mon. to dissasemble since i dont have a spring comressor thatll work then im gonna go and get a practice head from a guy on the board to practice on once my grinder arrives then ill start my mild first home port and polish hope that goes well.

 

41.8 is correct.

You wouldn't necessarily need to know that in order to tune, although understanding the concept is helpful.

 

woooohooooo i finally got something for sure but now i come to find out i didnt grasp anything useful dealing w/ dataloggin i just taught myself a new math formula what a let down...lol


do u get what im sayin though about not knowing where to start since i will have to break in the cam before i datalog....what all should i do to get it goin and be able to drive to and from work for a week or two till i get some good datalogs then another week or two to get a better tune if it takes that long.

 

No break-in is necessary with roller cams.

I'm saying, even with the LT1 cam, that I think you'll be able to drive the car on a stock bin. It certainly won't be perfect, but it will run. And you can then tune from there.

 

well i dont get much time off from work usually so i was just gonna try and take like 4 days off or somethin plus my two off days and try and get everything listed on there...but what about the stuff listed minus the intake and ultimate tbi mods...lol...probably not much different then the whole thing huh??

but i would at least really like to do the heads, cam and headers all at once but i could hold off on the headers now that i think of it since i have to have a custom y pipe fabbed and thats about a thirty min drive to the shop so i would wanna wait on that till i tune it up decently so what about just the heads and cam and smog delete stuff??

 

In all honesty, you might want to find a group of guys or one guy that does tunes hands on and meet up with him to pick his brain. I do this often and have gotten a LOT of people doing their own chips. Not everybody wants to learn but the ones that do have been rewarded with the best gains in mileage, drivability, and performance!
For this reason, and this reason alone you need to go back and look at some of the threads that I've replied to where questions like, "what do I need to change in the bin for a larger cam." have been answered. I don't feel as if I have the energy to sit down and coach you through this step at a time. You need to do a lot of your own research understanding EFI in general. Look at the books on tuning EFI. I forget the name of it but there's one out there that gives really good beginner info and from it you can start tuning just about anything. It explains how larger cams lower the volumetric efficiency at lower RPM but increases it up high. I hope somebody has the name of the book because I couldn't find it on Amazon.com and I just looked for like an hour because I need it for a local buddy.

 

okay i will look for that book there is a list of books in one of the stickies i think its in traxions guide ill check and tell u the name of it...as for finding a coach around me i live in lexington and i havent seen anyone on the tunning boards around lexington Ky. and yeah i would only want u to explain these things on more non specific quetions only if u wanted to. but is that tru that i will probably run okay to get to and from work and such till datalogging can be done and a new tune can be made w/ my stock bin i thought i would be way off w/ the better heads, and a cam almost twice the lift as the peanut cam that came in these. thanks
John

 

I am in Louisville area if you want to come over some weekend I can show you some stuff on a gmc syclone/typhoon to get your feet wet.

 

yeah that would be cool although i do not know my way around louisville at all.

 

shoot me an email

jeff@jsmanufacturing.com if you are interested. Saturday evening we will be tuning a syclone.

 

Now that's what I'm talking about.

 

If he can absorb that knowledge I will show him the 2nd ecm installed in the truck controlling the 4l80e.

 

well my car is in the shop till next week some time getting the rear diff. put in and im borrowing a car and there would be no way for me to get there so please let me know the next time you will be working on these...im normally off sat. and sun. but lately ive been working alot of overtime. where in louisville r u located?? like i said im never in louiseville so i do not know my way around there at all.

 

ive also heard somethin about tps VE being pretty much usless does that mean i can leave that be and only tune the first to values in it like the person who called it useless did?
sorry for all the questions im just tryin to ask things one at a time for each part (VE, Spark,) to try and get the parts i dont understand after reading the stickies. next will probably be questions on spark cause i didnt see to many comments specific to my ecm on spark but i will read the others too to try and get it a lil bit. thanks
John

 

oh yeah i forgot to ask would i need to go to larger injectors and would the 350 55# pound ones work? and would i need a larger fp to drive these injectors at pressure effectivly thanks alot of they help...i know i read one of grumpys posts saying it easier to swap injectors then to try and make the old ones work but that was on a 355 he was doing i dont know if the changes im making justify larger injectors and if so a larger fuel pump. thanks
John

oh yeah and just an update im starting to understand some other bits and pieces of this stuff like timing and iac steps etc..not fully but starting to get it, where can i get a dissasembler to work on a windows platform and not dos i tried the dos one and couldnt work it right so that i can look at some of the adresses in the code and see how its set up. and i have a adress list for things in the 7747 ecm i assume they arent the same as my 8746 61 mask ecm where can i find a index on it?

 

is no one answering because i have changed the subject a bunch and need to post a new thread?? im just trying to understand this stuff and need all the help i can get.