7Point4

Got mine in the other day. Fast shipment, Rbob. Great work.

Looks good. started the self install, and have started editing the bin for first startup. Am running a big block, at slightly increased fuel pressure. Going to try leaving most the same as the example bin, but going to transfer my VE tables, as much as I can, and my current spark tables.

Will be using a ZT-2 wideband.

Am looking forward to the increased data rate.

Wondering about the idle setup. Currently, '8747, uses open loop idle. Hope to use closed loop idle.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

As long as your O2 sensor stays hot enough at idle to cross count accurately and you have a mild cam, you should have no problem running a closed loop idle.

7Point4

The zt-2 is heated, and the motor pulls around 16-17" at idle. So should be good to go.

Thanks!


EDIT:

Finished the install of the EBL board. Easy enough. Now to finish editing the bin, and try it.

I'm skeered.

Dominic Sorresso

7Point,

Come towards the light.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

I've been reading this post with some interest, and have a few questions.

1. Will you still need software like Tunercat or WINALDL to do the datalogging, or is EBL all-inclusive? If you do need additional software, which is best to use with EBL?

2. I've been looking at Prominator for some time, will it work seamlessly with EBL, and would that be the best choice in emulators, or would another work better?

3. Would you recommend EBL to someone just getting started at tuning, or is it beyond the range of a novice?

Dominic Sorresso

Some of the other Master Betas or RBob may want to chime in but IMO:


1. EBL does its own datalogging. The ECU is Bob's so you can't scan it with anything else anyway. It's pretty comprehensive.

2. I use Moates' Ostrich for my emulator. It in combination with EBL is a g*dsend. I have no experience with the Prominator so I can't offer an opinion.

3. EBL won't substitute for understanding tuning. It reduces the time and effort it takes to tune, but you still need to understand how things interrelate and affect the performance of your motor. The Learn VE function tunes the VE tables. But it doesn't help with any of the many other tweaks that need to be made in order to have a smooth performing car.

TierAngst

AAARGH!!! I'm not sure if it is my laptop or the usb-rs232 converter I got but every time I hook it up to the ebl and turn on the WUD my computer crashes. Is there are certain speed setting I have to ebable for the port or is the 128000 bps speed I have good enough?

I'm guessing its my converter so... is there any way to plug the rj11 into my modem and datalog through that or do I need a new converter?

Got it up and running but it needs tuning and I haven't figured out what to do with the TCC settings yet. Heck I don't have a clue what I'm doing but it runs just as good as before so I can at least drive my car around as is.

Dominic Sorresso

Tier,

What laptop are you using? Mine was doing the same thing with a Compaq Evo 800 using my EASE USB converter. Running XP SPII. Didn't have a problem with my other Dell laptop.

TierAngst

Its an averatec 6100 with xp spII, thought it was software issue so installed xp pro spII and still same thing. I don't have a spare laptop to try it out with either.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

You CAN scan the EBL with a standard ALDL cable or scan tool, but that is not the point of the EBL. It still transmits the standard ALDL at the standard 160 (I believe it is still at that) baud rate. I have checked this out and know that on mine I can still scan it.

You can also still pull codes in a conventional manner and also still use the field service mode.

Agreed

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The comm port is set up and opened at the required EBL baud rate (57.6, 8N1). Shouldn't need to set anything up in that regard. When the laptop crashes what if any error message is being displayed? OTOH it sounds like you are using a USB adaptor. If so, can it be set to 57,600 baud (57.6 KB)? That may do the trick.

Good to hear you have it up and running.

RBob.

greywuuf

I hope I am not hijacking this thread, but I have seen several referances to 383 strokers here and was hoping that someone could actually say they have one running well and might be able to contact me. Also I have requested more info on the EBL (after reading with much interest this whole thread several times) so hopefully I will soon be able to contribute to this thread in a meaningful way.

Thanks from the "new guy"
in Alaska

TierAngst

The usb adapter is not configurable though the port settings are so I'll try that. I get the blue screen of death for about a second or two and then it shuts down so I can really tell what it says, though maybe windows logs this? I really hate windows and my next request... WUD for Linux :-)

Dominic Sorresso

Fast/Tier/RBob,

Sorry for the misinformation. I'd thought about trying to scan EBL with my EASE scantool, but then I thought, why bother.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No problem. I was going to remove it, then decided to leave it as it has utility. Out on the road any garage can plug a scan tool into the ALDL port and get the sensor data. It is the same as an f-body TBI vehicle. Will need to short A&B to put it into diagnostic mode.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I don't believe Windows will event log a blue screen of death. Maybe try some stuff and see if we can narrow it down:

Disconnect the serial-2-USB adaptor and boot the laptop. Start the WUD and see if it comes up.

If so, shut down and connect the serial-2-USB adaptor. Boot it up and start the WUD, see if it stays running.

If so, now connect the EBL serial to the USB adaptor and key-on (engine can stay off). Did it do OK?

The first time the WUD is started it defaults to COM2. It tries to open that port and if it can't it displays an error message. The user can then use the File -> CommPort drop down menu to select COM1 through COM6. Each time a new COM port is selected the WUD tries to open it. If it can that information is written to a config file for the next time it is run. If it can't open it then it displays the error message.

RBob.

TierAngst

WUD will run though all those, it dies as soon as I turn on the car and the data starts being sent through. I can see it datalog for a split second and then it blue screens for another half second then restarts.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Would you be able to try a different serial-2-USB adaptor? Maybe borrow one. Or, that adaptor on a different laptop or even a desktop. If we can find out if it is the adaptor or the Laptop it would be helpful.

Thanks,

BobR.

TierAngst

I could try a different adaptor but it would be a week before I could use it as I only know of one person with one and he is on vacation. I did order a pcmcia serial card last night so that should be here by Thurs or Fri, I'm really hoping that does the trick.

sbcrules

I jumped into this with both feet.
383 roller motor with BB TBI 80lb injectors nothing stock with the engine, the truck didn't even come with a TBI it was carbed. Running RBob’s EBL with Craig’s AutoProm, for a beginning tuner this is a lot to take in at once.
But after reading and seeking help from the guys on this site (Thanks RBob) my truck ran very well today. I took it out for a data log and was very surprised with its performance and drivability, The EBL is worth 2x the cost.
IMO this is the best bang for the buck of any add on you can buy. He has not missed anything on this one. I am really looking forward to tuning with this, I still have a lot to learn (still fighting a high idle during closed loop 1125 RPM) as I log more data I think this will work out soon.
Thanks guys.

liquidh8

Can't wait to get mine. I hope to see it in a few days.

91rs305tbi

im a newb just learning about tuning...Ive read threw pretty much this whole thread but dont understand some things...What basic info should i start reading to learn how to do the tuning...and im wondering what all i need to do it...i saw that fast355 said his list was
Burn1
EBL
Laptop
USB-Serial Adapter

what else will i need other than a laptop and the knowhow?
Thanks

sbcrules

If your talking TBI goto this Post:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...free-tune.html

TierAngst

For all of you thinking about getting this, get a 28-pin zif socket to go with it. It is not a must but it saves so much time and headaches trying to carefully take out a chip without bending pins.

steve_ravet

You should be able to turn off the automatic reboot by changing a registry setting.

Registry Settings
System Key: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CrashControl]
Value Name: AutoReboot
Data Type: REG_DWORD (DWORD Value)
Value Data: (0 = disabled, 1 = enabled)

Then you can make a note of what is displayed.

There is also some good information on blue screens, including how to debug them, on wikipedia:

Blue Screen of Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The memory dump and stack trace will go a long ways towards finding out what's causing the problem.

--steve

TierAngst

Thanks Steve but just ended up buying a different adapter and it works like a dream.

DM91RS

Which adapters did you try?

TierAngst

The one that works:
Belkin - USB PDA Adapter



Startek pcmcia serial card and a cheap no namer from ebay.

DM91RS

Thanks...........the second listing did not work?


DM

TierAngst

The pcmcia card did absolutely nothing and the cheapo adapter crashed my computer, if you're looking for one I'd get the one I gave a direct link to.

69 1/2 Six Pack

Hello, folks,

I am a little wet behind the ears so be gentle, please.
First off, I would like to commend RBob for the outstanding job that he and all of his development team and beta testers have put together!
I have been reading along for at least a year and have been gathering as much info as my poor ol' brain can absorb. I have been "Megasquirting" my '72 Chevy C-20, 402-powered, TBI topped, 4-speed truck for a long while now. I have been waiting for a more "user friendly" and faster version for the stock "7747" ECM's to arrive and I believe it is finally here. I am going to ditch the Megasquirt project completely and wire in the "7747". I will have to scrounge around for a VSS, MAP and an ESC and knock sensor but that is easy. I currently don't use them with the MS-II. I also do not need an EGR nor canister purge so I will just "turn them off" in the code.

Just quickly, how am I going to be able to "save" the new learned values from the EBL tables so I can transfer them into the flash chip? Am I still going to have to get a chip burner e.g., Moates' "Burn1" and will I also need some sort of datalogging software?

Kudos again to RBob and the rest of the team!!

Thanx,
Bud

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Will need something such as the Burn1 to Flash a PROM. An emulator would also work but at the end of the day it is always best to put a PROM in the socket.

No need for a separate data logger. That is provided with the What's Up Display (WUD). This is a Windows based software to be used on a laptop or desktop. When the VE Learn function is used (included in the WUD) a new BIN is created. This bin has the new VE table(s) along with being checksum'd and is ready to burn.

A quick summary: the EBL includes a piece of hardware that is added to an ECM. This provides for high speed data logging (in conjunction with the WUD). There is a new BIN (EBL.BIN) to be used with the EBL board.

RBob.

69 1/2 Six Pack

Got it!
Thanx for the help.

Bud

DM91RS

Thanks..............I was just wondering because I now have the adapter that Fast355 suggested. The IO Gear from Wally World. I started using it with the ZT2 I just purchased. It works but on initial plug-in the cursor goes squirrelly and locks up the screen. After about the third try it will finally "take" and start collecting data.

69 1/2 Six Pack

Is there any way to just put a PROM into the socket and re-flashing it without the need to R & R the chip to do so or do I need an emulator for that?

Thanx,
Bud

DM91RS

If you get a ZIF for your chips having a burn1 and a zif is very ez to live with.

If you do not want that route you will have to spring for an emulator. (My ostrich has been installed for almost a year now ) Just plugging in a usb cable is how hard it gets.

liquidh8

RBob,
What is the calpack for. I know it is a bunch of resistors. What would happen if it is put in backwards, or went bad, other than throw a code. Would it run messed up?? Or would you just lose the limp home mode??

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If the CALPAK is inserted backwards a code 52 will be set. Limp mode will be disabled (limp is only active whenever the main system can not run. This is the case when the EPROM checksum is bad, or the main CPU goes out. If a sensor dies there are default values used, NOT limp mode).

If the CALPAK is bad the engine may run differently. I know that it sets the injector mode to alternating. Not sure what kind of affect it will have on the engine. This is not something that I've tried. This coming week I should play around with the CALPAK and see what happens.

RBob.

liquidh8

kool, I just figured i'd ask. I know way back when you said it was staying with the ebl, just curious what it really did, and what the result would be if it were back/installed wrong. Thanx.

gparmer

Just wondering if anyone has modified the .ecu file for electronic control of the TH400?...or even if anyone has documented which settings you're using for TCC/Shift Light/Polarity settings. If no, I'll just use Bob's TCC doc and a hack to figure it out.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The '7747 BIN ABHC is setup for a TH400 down shift solenoid. Can check the TCC settings in that.

This thread has a copy of the ABHC bin in it:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...nshifting.html

RBob.

gparmer

Thanks Bob. I had a '7747 bin with the those settings. I guess the part I was missing is that the EBL bin is close enough to the '7747 bin that I can do a compare to see the differences. True? I was going on the assumption that the EBL was all new code (or at least code moved about seriously), but I gather from this that you've primarily added stuff in the new memory locations. I'll do my homework now...thanks!

When I got the EBL, I went straight to the included bin, with tweaks for my config of course. It's an impressive testimony to DynamicEFI that it worked so well right out of the box.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

gparmer, after reading your last post I came to understand why you asked. You are correct that most (nearly all!) of the EBL code is new and has features different then GM code. I looked into the TH400 kickdown and found that the TCC EBL code is far different from the '747 even in how the calibration tables are set up.

What is interesting is that GM sets up the TH400 kick down calibration to use a set TPS%. Not based on MPH or RPM, just set to 85% in the case of ABHC. The thresholds are set up as the coast or decel TPS% unlock. Unlock (no kickdown) when the TPS% is less then the coast value. Then lock (do kickdown) when the TPS% is above the coast value.

So with that, this is what I found works for the TH400 kickdown (all TCC parameters). This is only bench tested, but looks OK:

Set Lock enable CTS to -40C
Set TPS% opening/closing deltas for unlock to 100%
Set Relock delays to 0 (all)
Set Forced Lock to 255 MPH

Set the 4 TCC TPS% unlock/lock tables to 100% {edited: was 255}:
-LoGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked
-LoGr TPS% to Unlock
-HiGr TPS% to Stay Unlocked
-HiGr TPS% to Unlock

Set the 4 MPH thresholds to 0:
-LoGr MPH OK to Lock
-LoGr MPH to Unlock
-HiGr MPH OK to Lock
-HiGr MPH to Unlock

Set these 2 coast values to 85%:
-LoGr Max TPS% coast unlock
-HiGr Max TPS% coast unlock

Set these 2 coast values lower for hysterisis (probably mispelled), at 75%:
-LoGr Min TPS% coast unlock
-HiGr Min TPS% coast unlock

With these settings the TCC ECM output will go low when the TPS% is greater then 85%. The Relay is set up to provide +12 volts to the downshift solenoid whenever the TCC ECM output goes low (grounded).

RBob.

BillZ

Any chance of getting support for the '749? (thought it was time to ask again :-)

Bill
'84 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749

89C2500

...or batch fire '7747?

vernw

iTrader: (2)

... or the '7730?

gparmer

What options does the '7749 have that EBL doesn't support? I don't know how to deal with the non-distributor versions, but TPI and boost and other items are supported, so switching back to an older generation ECM isn't completely out of the question for many folks.

The '7730/'7749 and '7747/EBL are different generation ECMs. I would not expect the differences (from an ECM modification standpoint) to be trivial. If you've got a distributor, I *would* expect the rewiring differences to switch ECMs to be trivial.

BTW, RBob--TH400 settings are working like a charm. Like killing a fly with a sledgehammer, but it works great.

-greg

gta324

have anyone done this TPI->EBL conversion?

Thinking of switching to EBL if its possible....

/N.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Best would be the 7730 or a PCM running in MPFI mode. The EBL code is likely very good, but there is some things in the core TBI fuel calcs that are specific to a wetflow system and thus make it not a true SD system, unless RBob redid the calculation routines. Also, the firing stratagy for TBI cars is different then those for TPI cars.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The EBL running MPFI on a 3.1 V6 in my GMC Jimmy seems to be running great.

Speaking of which, RBob, I keep hearing about later releases that have not yet been sent to me. Would you please email me the latest versions of the HUD and the program.

Just because the Van is MAF TBI, doesn't mean the EBL is tucked away in the garage.