Hello,

Using v4.13.0400 , with an ostrich, and $58 i'm having some weird issues after upgrading from an older v4.00.3554 release. OS is windows XP, on an amd 800mhz laptop.

Some tables when I click on "update" seem to get updated (bpc vs desired egr for example), well it displays it updated it on the bottom, with the audible beep. On other tables (i.e, main ve table - in idle), I can make all kinds of changes, and they don't take effect on an update - no beep, no change to "updated"... (and the checksum will fail when I do a compare EMU to RAM).

Thats one issue.

Another issue I noticed, some tables (i.e, min coolant temp for closed loop), when I open it it shows -45c as the value it's set to. No matter what I set it to, it returns to -45c. I can't determine whats actually in the EMU or bin. This didnt happen with the older version.

Has anyone else experienced this ?? I'm gonna have to switch back to v4.00.3554 I guess for now.

I also noticed some issues with the aldl reporting. In tunerpro It shows an idle pw of like 7.5msec. Under datamaster it's closer to 2.0 msec.. I think some other values might be off too, but I need to compare between tunerpro and datamaster.

-- Joe

 

Yeah, I have the same problems with the latest version 4.13 that I downloaded last week. Using an xtronics so called emulator.

1) yes, sometimes when you click "update" it does not say "update successful" and no audible beep. I ALWAYS key-off, full upload, start engine. I don't trust TP 4.13 doing the update. It will not update more than it will update.

2) Click something twice sometimes and "this application.... fatal error" and will be closed. I save all of the time because it happens quite a bit.

3) When doing ALDL logging, if you record a session and stop, it is supposed to pop-up a comment text box. Sometimes the modal text box gets hidden behind the current window and you can't get at it. It appears that everything froze up. If you hit the enter key, the box will close (although you can't see it) and you can do more data logging.

4) The monitor and dash have been fixed a lot. In older versions the windows would flash. Now the display much more smooth. It was once thought that it was a bitblt problem with my old laptop computer. In fact, my does do bitblt by spec. and it passes the TP "system check" and other software bitblt checks.

5) That Syty92-93 has problems with both BPW (inverted), timing (wrong headings), and MAT/IAT (inverted). I haven't gone through the rest of it yet but there probably is more.

What size injectors give you an idle PW of 2.0ms? Are they saturated or P&H?

 

The whole aldl stuff is just.. difficult.. if it overlaps the editor boxes you cant click update, etc.. It makes it so if your not running an insane screen resolution you have to keep closing boxes..

Why do the syty92-93 have those problems? they didnt before.

I'm using 36# bosch injectors, high impedance. Wideband shows between 13:1 17:1 afr at 128blm.. 2.0 msec if I recall but now that I think of it, I think they might have been closer to 1.5 or so cuz I remember the DC following low and they switching to quasi.

-- Joe

 

It took me a while to get accustomed to opening and closing the BIN dialog boxes to do updates. I just keep re-sizing the the Monitor window when I make BIN changes. At first I used the "update" button, but then stopped because it didn't seem to work all of the time. Trying to tune a new ECM and new software/hardware can be trying sometimes. You learn about bugs and how to avoid them with time. The real killer is the "fatal error....program is now being closed". I save the bin after EVERY cal. change so I know what I have when the program crashes.

The SyTy92-93 that I got from www.nwstp.com last Fall had the bugs in it. So as far as I know, it always had the problems. Invert the MAT table, invert the BPW calc., and swap the timing headers. I also convert the Boost to PSI instead of KPA. Maybe you had a different ADS file before. The only public ADS $58 I know of is the SyTy92-93 file.

With 327-383ci I would have to guess that 36#/hr would be in the 1.5ms range. As an example, my 42#/hr hi-z injs. showed about 6.0ms at idle with the stock SyTy92-93 ADS file. After fixing the BPW calc. it was about 1.7ms at idle. After tuning idle, they are in the 1.2ms @ 750rpm P/N with 45KPA MAP reading. I am going to play around with the quasi/single fire mode stuff.

 

I posted a message on Mark's BB about the table update issue :
http://www.supportfitness.com/tunerp...opic.php?t=331
with no reply as of yet.

I noticed the table updates would only take place when you manually enter each cell value. If I use the toolbox, nothing updates unless the whole .bin is uploaded. I've done as junkcltr suggests and have just done the larger download after a "big" table change.

I'm also wondering if you guys run into what looks like out-of-memory problems when displaying ALDL values. It seems like Tunerpro keeps eating memory until I can't open any other application without a "System Resources Low" message. I've seen this on various releases of Tunerpro in both Win 98, Win ME and Win XP OS's on two different laptops.....

 

I haven't run any programs while TP is running because the ALDL is HUGE processor hog. On my 300MHZ PII, it literally brings it to it's knees. In order to change the one of the monitor boxes (from MAT to TDC timing) I have to stop ALDL logging so the the right click pop-up menu will come up. If I do this while ALDL logging it takes seconds to pop-up and sometimes never does pop-up until I click on something else. Then it pops up and goes away because it doesn't have focus anymore when it comes up. Yeah, strange.
The ALDL code must do loops instead of threads and hog up resources. Not really sure though. After a while you get familiar with how it works and work around the bugs. That is how I tend to do it. Gotta remember it is a lot of work for one person writing all of this code. It is a great program and the bugs are easily worked around.

I will pop up the task manager and look at the memory allocation as TP runs ALDL logging. I run on WIN 98SE.

 

I completely agree. I didn't mean to sound overly critical of the program. It's a whole lot better "complaining" about how something works compared to "complaining" about not having anything to work with in the first place. I really just wanted to compare notes. I, too, have workarounds for anything I've found. I just want to make sure there isn't some simple solution that would eliminate the problem so I don't need the workaround!

 

Joe -

Email me the files you're using and some explicit repro steps. I'll hook it up to the bench and see if I can repro.

I think I fixed some issues with the updates not happening when you use the table editor toolbox, but I don't remember if those fixes made it into the latest release. I'll have to take a look.

Junk - regarding ALDL bringing your PII 300 to its knees - this seems unsual. I have a 100mhz P5 with 48MB of RAM that has little trouble datalogging $6E at ~9hz. I'm curious to know more about your system. You are correct. The current incarnation doesn't thread the 8192 acquisition, but it does thread 160 baud. This will all be better in the next version (ALDL is being completely re-written. You'll be pleased).

1981 - Can you open the task manager and verify that memory is leaking? It's possible, but I haven't seen it. I'll run that portion of the code through a memory profiler and ensure that none is being leaked.

Email me with more information on all of your issues and I'll investigate further and fix if necessary (and point you to a "private" build with the fixes). I've had my head way low trying to make more progress on the re-write.

 

Junkcltr let me know what fields you fixed and what formulas you used and I would gladly update the ads file on NWSTP. I went through the 160.ds aldl def and some of the things we can't do yet like 2's compliment cause the math isn't supported by Tunerpro yet. Also I know the VE formula was incorrect on there the factor should be 0.390625. I do have PSI calculations for Boost and MAP in the ads. I would love to get the BPW correct and other errors you see. Post them and I will fix it.

 

I think it would be easier to send you the ADS file. PM me an email address and I will send it to you this evening.
I used the 160.DS file info to fix it.

 

I ran into this myself last night. I updated a huge section of a table using the tool box and it didn't update the ostrich. If I dragged a few points on the graph it would update the ostrich. If I did a single cell it would update.
----------
PM Sent. Also if you could tell me what ads fields you fixed that would help.

 

skwayb,
I sent the ADS file again

Mangus,
I will put together some info on the setup this weekend and sent it to you

 

I tried having other programs open while running TP4.13 tonight while getting the testbench setup. I crashed hard all three times I tried it. I had the photo editor open viewing a schematic with TP4.13 and it locked up. Mouse would move by clicking wouldn't work. CTL+ALT+DEL wouldn't work. Had to power off and power on. I then tried having TP4.13 open, datalogged, stopped datalogging. Then opened MS-photo editor to open a file. The file open progress bar went to 1/2 way and the system froze. Had to power off/on again. Third try resulted in the same as the first try.
I am compiling some info to give to Mangus for the crashes & fatal crashes that don't take down the entire system. This is on WIN 98 SE, Compaq Armada 7800, 300MHZ-PII, 64Meg RAM. I know Compaq sucks, but it runs everything else smoothly.

The new Megastimulator for the Megasquirt works great for the GM ECM testbenching. I am going some fuel injector testing & code hacking so I should have a fair amount of time using TP4.13 this week/weekend and will give Mangus as much info as I can on the crashes and stuff. It is a great program. It makes tuning so much easier.

 

skwayb,
I sent the ADS from two different email address and also the second address you gave me. I never received a bounce email for any of them. I virus scanned the file before sending it to you. I am attaching the file to this post. It is the only way I know of getting the file to you. Let me know if you want me to remove the file from the post after you get it.

I changed the extension to ".txt" so that it would upload. Change it to ".ads" after you download it.

The file contains the following changes:
1) changed sync BPW calc. TP4 does math as: ALDL_val*factor or factor/ALDL_val
Therefore, the old value was BPW inverted. I did the math (1/65536)*ALDL_val

2) changed async BPW calc. Same as above

3) Timing with respect to DRP and Timing with respect to TDC were swapped.
I changed the ALDL byte numbers to correct it

4) MAT A/D value. Changed so that ALDL shows actual MAT in degr. Faren.
The MAT tables were inverted. Fixed those also.

5) Boost Pressure. Changed the TP4 calc. to show boost in PSI (14.7/101.4)*KPA boost

 

Very interesting. So somehow the photo app is interacting strangely with TunerPro? I wonder if it's a graphics driver thing. I know that Windows 98 has caused similar problems for others (oh how I hate Win98). I should pull out my Win98 laptops and do some more experiments with other applications while using TunerPro.

Also, let me know how you end up liking the megsquirt test bench. I'm thinking of building another bench (skwayb gave me one of saturn5's boards and it has been almost as valuable for development as my PC has), and since saturn5 isn't making any more boards, I need an alternative.

 

yah I am not sure why I didn't get them at either e-mail address myself.

I downloaded the file and I will make the changes to the one I have up on NWSTP and let you know when it is done. Hmm thought I had Boost Pressure in PSI. I had both KPA and PSI calcs I thought. I will add it if not.

Thanks again for the help. If you see anything else that is wrong, let me know.

 

It is highly likely that it is a graphics driver problem. Compaq chipset use was always on the low end. If I remember correctly it is and old VirgeSX chipset. I will try running other programs to see if only the MS-photo edit has the problem.


I have been using the Megastim for two nights now. I tested out two sets of injectors with it and all went fine. The only stuff it is really missing is VSS, MAP/MAF, extra LEDS for EGR and other misc. stuff, and toggle switches for P/N, A/C input, etc. I made a small PCB hand wired for that stuff. It does, RPM, CTS, MAT, and RPM correctly. Overall, it was cheaper to buy that than route a PCB with everything on it. I only had to build a board with a few toggle switches, LEDS, and a 10K pot to do the MAP sensor.

 

Good ol' S3. And to think I used to work there in the Virge (and Savage) days. And certifying drivers at that. So it sounds like it's my bad either way. =)

 

I have experience same problem for update Ve table, now it will update manually Thanks to 1981TTA.,

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...=1#post2822503

 

By same problem you mean the table function editor not allowing emulation update for a table problem. Yes, I've fixed that in a more recent version that hasn't yet been released. I'm waiting for more info on other problems so I can get more fixes in (I'd really like for the next release to be the last for a while, so I'm queueing up grievences).

 

Are you still hosting older versions of the software? I can go through the bins and see how each version reacts, then give you reproduction steps and a bin.

 

No, unfortunately. I archive the source for all previous releases, so they can be re-built, but that's more trouble than it's worth. Much is being re-written for v5.

If you have repros with the current version, that's most useful.

Thanksf or your patience and assistance!

 

well, even manually any change made to the ve table dont seem to work...
it will update but do nothing on AFR in emulation.
Now i practice on a 2.8 liter celebrity, because our 350 have a big cam, very rough idle... so i want to get use with tuner pro RT on a more gentle engine. For the 2.8l 7730 ecm i read the prom with apui, 6D xdf. I can change constant and i see the changes. But nothing happen when i work on table/fonction, i put it open loop and try to lean it or richen it, even putting
+100 or -100 on VE TAbles nothing....AFR WB always stay at 10,8:1. for the V6 there is idle Ve Table and Main VE table ,try change both, even save the bin and open it to emulate...nothing. I want to see the AFR change....???

 

Try changing something a little more obvious, like perhaps the idle speed. See if that works.

 

I noticed the same thing, until I shut down and restarted.. thing ran WAY different.. I wonder if some tables are only referenced at startup by the GM code, and others are pointers to memory addresses which could be updated relatime.

-- Joe

 

I warned people about this back when some people were looking to build commercial emulators and I already had a homebuilt one. There are a lot of things that need to be understood about a system before you try to change it while executing.

 

Mangus,
I have attached some debug info for you. I couldn't generate some of the crashes I had the other day, but I listed all that I could replicate.
I will keep a log and document any other stuff I come across.

I am going to start hacking the BBZB $58 to work with MonteCarSlow's NVSRAM module in the coming days using the emulator for quick code updates/debugging along with TP4.13 and the new ECM testbench. I might have more info for you after that.

 

I added the missing mode word info to the ADS file. This is for bytes 57 through 63. I made the existing MALF flags visable. You can manually cut & paste the ADS text for the new mode word stuff. This is not recommended by TP, but make sure you do a MS-DOS "fc" check on the two files after the cut & paste. This will save a lot of typing on your part.

I have attached the file as a ".txt". Rename to ".ads" after downloading.

 

I downloaded the mod4 ads. I will take a look at it and get the missing flags added.

 

I am having a tough time replicating the TP4.13 crashes. I had one crash where I was replaying an ALDL session while making changes to two VE tables. I was not emulating. I had one table open and the graph for it open, then I clicked on the other table view graph button. Up popped the fatal error message squawking about "user.exe". I also had MS-Excel open looking at CSV data and it took down that app. too. The OS stayed alive though.

I had a bunch of crashes while datalogging in the car while tuning the idle. They all seemed to happened when I stopped datalogging when the "session text" box would not appear. I would get "fatal" crashes that took down the OS twice. After one of those crashes, TP would not recognize the emulator after I re-executed it. Closed TP and re-opened and it recognized the emulator (key was on the whole time).

The monitor right click pop up menu was acting funny. After right clicking it would pop up and disappear while datalogging. If I stopped datalogging it would pop up fine.

Sorry I can't be more descriptive. It is hard to explain all that is going on because I am data logging with about 4 or 5 tables open and usually a graph. Then when I try to re-create it afterwards I can't seem to get the steps right.

Overall, it worked great though. Finally got the junk Ford 42#/hrs to idle half decent. I am still looking to try the single fire mode though.

 

Man, too bad you're not local (well, we're both in the garage apparently, if only they were the same one). I'd love to get to the bottom of your issues. Anything that mentions "user.exe" is typically OS related. It doesn't mean that TunerPro isn't trampling memory somewhere (if Win98 non-SE, this is possible. If Win98-SE, the app doesn't have access to memory outside it's own process pool).

I hate hearing about experiences like this, though. I'll pull out my Win98 arsenal when I have a bit of time and start firing away at some debugging.

Keep the info coming.

Oh, I also uploaded a "beta" build with some fixes accumulated over time (I forget the list, really, but I know the table editor toolbox fix is there). Give it a shot and let me know:

Index of /beta/Builds

Mark

 

Too funny. Yeah, I didn't see you in the garage when I reviewing some ALDL data. You must be in the other garage. It is Win98 SE, but it is not a big deal with the crashes. They only seem to occur when I am in hacking/note taking mode. It never crashes while I am out driving collecting data. I only run TP and use the record on/off button. I hit enter after recording so the "session" box doesn't mess me up. They STRANGE thing is that I did not have any crashes like this the other night with making the debug_info.txt file while using the ECM testbench. In the car, it seemed to behave a little different. I did have the emulator connected most of the time today but I did not have it connected up with the ECM testbench.

Win98SE or other wise is old news. I have been thinking of putting XP_Home on it or just chucking it for a new one. Compaq+WIN98SE = POS. I will give as much info as I can because it might help when are coding something and something catches your eye that might look a little strange. Not sure about you, but when ever I look back on code I see things and think what the ... was I thinking.

I will keep the log file open and try to pay attention to the steps I am taking in TP when I start messing with the ECM testbench and the $58_NVRAM hac.
I will be using the ALDL logging & emulator for this.

Did you get the debug_info.txt file I attached to an earlier post? I will remove it after you download it.

 

I haven't pulled them down at home yet. When I do (tonight) I'll send you PM letting you know you can take them down.

Again, the info is much appreciated. Keep it flowing!

 

New 58 ADS file is up on NWSTP

You can get it here.

1227749 2&3bar Code 58 ADS

The file contains the following changes:
1) changed sync BPW calc. TP4 does math as: ALDL_val*factor or factor/ALDL_val
Therefore, the old value was BPW inverted. I did the math (1/65536)*ALDL_val

2) changed async BPW calc. Same as above

3) Timing with respect to DRP and Timing with respect to TDC were swapped.
I changed the ALDL byte numbers to correct it

4) MAT A/D value. The MAT tables were inverted. Fixed those also. Added output for Both Degrees F and Degrees C.

5) VE formula fixed

6) Calcs for 2 Bar and 3 Bar for MAP and Boost Added (Calcs both done in kPa and PSI)

7) All MALF FLAGS were made visible

8) All MISSING FLAGS have been added. (Bytes 57,58,59,60,61,62 and 63)

I tried to fix all the problems that have been reported. If you find anything wrong in this recent ads file, let me know and I will get it corrected.

 

Updated the ADS.

Turbo Boost 2 Bar had a bad formula and didn't have the BYTE Number set. It was set to 0 when it should have been 45. Corrected it and re-uploaded the ADS. You will want to redownload to get the corrected file.

http://www.nwstp.com/files/paul/1227...ar_58_rev6.zip